D&D psionics

[Uraniun235]

I've been playing Dungeons and Dragons with my friends for a few years now, and every so often I've toyed with running a game but never quite got around to it. Recently, I suggested that I'd like to run a game eventually, to which my friends all agreed and encouraged me to try it. I'm actually sitting down and developing a campaign setting and background.

One of my concerns is that one of my friends has a massive hardon for psionics and wants to play a psionic character. I'm uncertain since I'm not terribly familiar with psionics in D&D.


Should I let him play a psionic or should I tell him 'dude just put on a fucking wizard hat like everyone else'?

(Edited to be more presentable since it's in a real forum now.)

[size=0]my friends tell me i should run a dungeons and dragons game and i concur
one of my friends has a massive hardon for psionics and wants to make a psionic character
i'm not sure since i'm not terribly familiar with psionics in D&D
should i let him or should i say 'dude just put on a goddamn wizard hat like everyone else'[/size]

[Superman]

my friends tell me i should run a dungeons and dragons game and i concur

one of my friends has a massive hardon for psionics and wants to make a psionic character

i'm not sure since i'm not terribly familiar with psionics in D&D




should i let him or should i say 'dude just put on a goddamn wizard hat like everyone else'

Wizard hat. And smack him for thinking he's special.

[Lusankya]

Maybe look up a MP variation for wizards, so he doesn't have to worry about being a stupid atomic wizard. Or tell him to be a warlock instead.

Or if you don't like either of those ideas, then give him a wizard hat.

[SirNitram]

I, sir, do not like psionics.

They force me to change my style of play to avoid unbalancing them because if I run only one or two monsters a day, they go nova OMFGWTFPWN.

Wizards do not force me to do this.

Ergo I recommend savage beatings.

(In actuality, it depends on many things. If your typical game has lots and lots of beatdowns between in-game rest, psions are fine.)

[Styphon]

Conceptually, I'm a big fan of psionics. My longest running RPG character of all time is my BTS2 Latent Psychic over on the Lazlo Society boards, as a matter of fact. D&D psionics, however, seem to suck giant hairy ass, so just give him a sorceror's staff instead (more unique and inborn than the wizard hat, but without the sucky power points and other weirdness).

[Napoleon the Clown]

Let him play a psionic character if he really wants to. Then nerf the hell out of it!


Alternately, say no if you're not familiar with psionics and tell him that's why you said no.

[Erik von Nein]

Tell him the only psion he can play is a mindblade. Mwa, haha.

[Darth Raptor]

I don't mind psionics at all so long as they overlap with all of the other kinds of magic.

That's right, MAGIC. Do you hear that, all you pretentious psion fucks? It's magic. Psionics are not different or special. You can't do that shit in the real world so you shouldn't be able to do it on any other dead magic plane.

[Anguirus]

The default D&D 3.5 rules assume total transparency with magic (needed for game balance...so SR and dispelling still work on psionics) and, frankly, they are both more balanced and more intuitive than the magic rules. So I'd allow them. It is a bit easier for psions to "nova" and expend all their power points to fry one monster, but frankly experienced wizard-players can be more devastating.

The single most important rule is that without special provisions like the Overchannel feat, psions can only spend a number of PP equal to their manifester level on any one power. A lot of complaints about psionics being unbalanced stem from players and DMs missing that rule, which is basically the equivalent of letting a wizard cast any damn level of spell he wants.

Also, there are six different kinds of psions and you should be familiar with that as a DM.

Egoist: They are about the only psions capable of buffing and healing, and their signature power is like a slightly better version of polymorph. Vulnerable to dispelling, obviously. Healing-focused ones are weaker than clerics at this so you may want to consider letting a PC egoist take the Sangehirn PrC from the WotC site.
Nomad: Focused on travel. They have neat low-level powers that let the party use the Astral Plane. They are the only psions that get Fly, and not until they get level 4 powers. They are also the only psions who can get teleport as a level 5 power like a wizard. Sadly kinda weak.
Kineticist: These guys are the ultimate blasters. This is the only thing psions can arguably do better than wizards--dish out a crapton of damage.
Shaper: They are the functional equivalent of a summoner wizard (some say weaker, some say stronger). They create things out of ectoplasm. Very cool and flavorful but have game-slowing potential because they customize their ectoplasm monsters on the fly.
Seer: A bit lame compared to the rest, these guys are the equivalent of diviners who also have some "luck" kind of stuff.
Telepath: Great fun! Can dominate as a level 4 power, and they are the ones who get charm and suggestion. Also can transfer their pain to their enemies (though they have to be close). They eventually get the schism power, which splits their psyche up so they can throw weak powers for free every round (like Quicken but accomplished with a buff rather than a feat).

If you can't learn the system with confidence, don't use psionics. But if you feel that you can, I wholeheartedly recommend them. Just throw them in as NPCs and big bads from time to time. Also, even if you're leery of the psion, I recommend the psychic warrior as one of the most balanced and satisfying classes in the D&D 3.5 system. And the soulknife sucks ass, so if your players are stupid enough to use them there should be no problem there.

[Ritterin Sophia]

If you need more info the D20 SRD is still up and free.

[LadyTevar]

You should be in Gaming, where the experts are!
Moving Up from Testing!

[TheFeniX]

i'm not sure since i'm not terribly familiar with psionics in D&D

That's the kicker right there. You can't be up all the rules (and I found the Second Edition rules on psionics pretty weak anyways, I know nothing about 3rd Edition). The last thing you want is for him to get pissed because your just making up dice rolls because you don't know the rules.

If you don't think either of you have the knowledge to properly run the class, then you probably shouldn't mess with it. But, if he does know the rules pretty spot on and you trust him not to try and bend the rules in his favor, then you can always rely on his knowledge when an issue comes up.

The main thing is to not let it slow-down the game for the others players. If he takes it personally, get some of the other players in on the discussion. That way, he understands it's not just you trying to undercut him and that you're trying to make the game enjoyable for everyone.

[Uraniun235]

My main concern is that my campaign is intended to be more of a 'whodunit' (still with plenty of action, of course) and I'm worried that telepathy could make it way too easy for them (or make the psionic way too central) to figure out what's going on. How effective is telepathy in this regard?

[Yogi]

My main concern is that my campaign is intended to be more of a 'whodunit' (still with plenty of action, of course) and I'm worried that telepathy could make it way too easy for them (or make the psionic way too central) to figure out what's going on. How effective is telepathy in this regard?

Well, the standard defenses against maagical divination spells could also be put in place against mind reading powers. Psionics isn't as broken as a well played wizard so it won't introduce more game balence issues. Besides if someone decides to Munchkin, even the lowly Fighter can be turned into a monster.

[lance]

The single most important rule is that without special provisions like the Overchannel feat, psions can only spend a number of PP equal to their manifester level on any one power. A lot of complaints about psionics being unbalanced stem from players and DMs missing that rule, which is basically the equivalent of letting a wizard cast any damn level of spell he wants

Actually even then they can't go beyond their manifester level.

[Turin]

I've run D&D 3.5E campaigns with psionics before, so I'm pretty comfortable with fielding this.

Let him play a psionic character if he really wants to. Then nerf the hell out of it!

Ha ha! That's right! Be a dick to your friend!

The default D&D 3.5 rules assume total transparency with magic (needed for game balance...so SR and dispelling still work on psionics) and, frankly, they are both more balanced and more intuitive than the magic rules. So I'd allow them. It is a bit easier for psions to "nova" and expend all their power points to fry one monster, but frankly experienced wizard-players can be more devastating.
<snip>
If you can't learn the system with confidence, don't use psionics. But if you feel that you can, I wholeheartedly recommend them.

The system isn't really that difficult, it's just that (as with any other class) you as the DM have to be aware of the psion's strengths and weaknesses. The primary strength with be the "nova" ability others have mentioned. The primary weakness will be his utterly uselessness later on if he novas, and his very small number of powers known (or as I like to call all PC abilities lumped together: his Bag of Tricks is small). As with any other PC in your party, you'll want to tailor some adventures to take advantage of this weakness while making some encounters perfect for him to blow his entire wad of PP in a couple rounds, so the player enjoys that chance at raw power from time to time.

Just throw them in as NPCs and big bads from time to time.

This really isn't strictly necessary, from a game balance point of view. The only reason why I might feel compelled to throw in the occasion psionic NPC is just so that the psionic PC doesn't feel like he's the only psion in the world (which may be okay for your campaign anyway). That said, turning the tables on the PCs and giving them a "nova" NPC villain might give them quite an entertaining challenge.

My main concern is that my campaign is intended to be more of a 'whodunit' (still with plenty of action, of course) and I'm worried that telepathy could make it way too easy for them (or make the psionic way too central) to figure out what's going on. How effective is telepathy in this regard?

"Whodunits" are hard to run in D&D in general. Telepathy won't add to this, and if he's not a telepath-specialist, he'll be considerably weaker than a wizard in this regard. Not to mention clerics with all their "Ask the DM" type spells (Augury, Divination, Commune).

[Anguirus]

Actually even then they can't go beyond their manifester level.

Overchannel explicitly allows this.

My main concern is that my campaign is intended to be more of a 'whodunit' (still with plenty of action, of course) and I'm worried that telepathy could make it way too easy for them (or make the psionic way too central) to figure out what's going on. How effective is telepathy in this regard?

No more so than magic. To do a whodunit in D&D you have to get creative. E.g. mutilating the corpse to avoid speak with dead, nondetection spells, illusion spells, etc. On the other hand, you could build the adventure so that PCs who know how to use divination are rewarded...but that simply finding the killer is only the first step to the adventure.

This really isn't strictly necessary, from a game balance point of view.

Good point, I shouldn't have implied that it was. I just have fond memories of smiting the party with a group of psionic duergar led by a high-level shaper...

So, uh, yeah, check out the SRD if you get the chance. If you get a basic knowledge of psionics, I suspect that before long you will find the psions less troublesome than wizards and clerics...they don't get access to every or nearly every power on their list, they have to pick like sorcerers. Because powers can scale to a greater extent than spells (though it costs more to do so) psions can be a little bit more flexible than sorcerers, but it's the same general idea.

[Covenant]

Or do this: let them pull all their tricks to find the killer and observe, and then have them find the killer--who is already dead. Theoretically vaporized or burnt beyond repair, or something, and then use the knowledge you just gathered from the first victim to make them rely on RP.

Or just make it a very low-power setting. One way is to make everyone dual-classed with fighter! I always found that an enjoyable mechanism for limiting the magical abuses while also giving everyone some extra bonuses.

[Darth Raptor]

The default D&D 3.5 rules assume total transparency with magic...

You will, of course, encounter the inevitable house rules crafted by total wankers who treat it as a force completely distinct from magic. Campaigns played according to such rules have all been, in my experience, "problematic" (read: "total clusterfucks").

Especially if the main villain is a psion...

[Turin]

You will, of course, encounter the inevitable house rules crafted by total wankers who treat it as a force completely distinct from magic. Campaigns played according to such rules have all been, in my experience, "problematic" (read: "total clusterfucks").

Especially if the main villain is a psion...

In all fairness, any D&D concept can be ruined by a complete fucktard of a DM who decides to muck around with utterly unbalanced house rules. Worse than your example of course would be "DM's Mary Sue as psion." Gods, kill me now.

[Darth Raptor]

In all fairness, any D&D concept can be ruined by a complete fucktard of a DM who decides to muck around with utterly unbalanced house rules.

Granted, it's just that the "psionics are different somehow" rule appears to be more popular than most of your other half-baked rule tweaks.

But other than the aforementioned final boss, who had a proper name but whom we dubbed "Supernova", my worst experience with psionics ever took place in a campaign set on a dead magic plane. It was supposed to be a semi-realistic "real world from 800-1100" type setting, but nooo. We HAD to have a psion PC, and the game broke up amid a bitter feud over "whether or not psychic phenomena are actually real and OH GOD STOP PWNING EVERYTHING!".

The sad thing is, I actually like psionics. It was a lot of fun when we basically cribbed Yuri, Psycho Mantis and Mewtwo and used them as encounters. But then again, they weren't total rule-raping death machines.

Worse than your example of course would be "DM's Mary Sue as psion." Gods, kill me now.

Lord. I half-jokingly wrote a divination spell once that revealed whether or not the DM really liked the target NPC. Positive readings were supposed to be followed in short order by epic evocation spells and/or a hail of repeating crossbow fire; regardless of said NPC's alignment.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Lord. I half-jokingly wrote a divination spell once that revealed whether or not the DM really liked the target NPC. Positive readings were supposed to be followed in short order by epic evocation spells and/or a hail of repeating crossbow fire; regardless of said NPC's alignment.

So you used Tanar'ri to possess your players and said, fuck you guys for that shit you put me through campaign over because of your lame asses?

[Darth Raptor]

Detect Favor

Divination
Level: Brd 4, Knowledge 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Target: One humanoid creature
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Detect Favor determines whether the target (non-player) character has an extremely important destiny upon which the caster and her allies depend. +2 if the target has, to the caster's knowledge, made a dramatic entrance, has a dark and mysterious past, made long speeches or has kicked ass in battle within the last 1d3 days.

Material Components: A used piece of tissue paper and an empty bottle of lotion.

Arcane Focus: A piece of poorly-written fiction.

[Gaidin]

Can we just cut through the red tape and call that one 'Detect GMPC'?

[Turin]

Level: Brd 4, Knowledge 7, Sor/Wiz 6
<snip>
Saving Throw: Will negates

Hm... seems a bit high in level. And who makes the save? The character or the DM? What's a DM's base Will save in 3.5E anyway? <flips through Monster Manual>

Oh... I get it, that was a joke.