abadon ware legality
Posted: 2007-12-09 07:52am
I keep coming across that has software for download and they claim this was abandon ware. Does anyone know how the law works in regard to this?
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If the person or company who created the software offers it for download themselves and states that it is freeware, or can be downloaded free of charge, it's usually kosher. If it's a dodgy Russian site with porn po-ups offering "freeware" copies of games, you run.How do you know about freeware if its really that.
THanks very much for the info.Bounty wrote:If the person or company who created the software offers it for download themselves and states that it is freeware, or can be downloaded free of charge, it's usually kosher. If it's a dodgy Russian site with porn po-ups offering "freeware" copies of games, you run.How do you know about freeware if its really that.
No matter how the site dresses it up, it is still breaking the law.Sticky wrote:No Warez. Just so everyone understands, warez and pirating are illegal, so dont offer pirate copies of games or links to warez sites in threads. We dont need any trouble from such things so keep them away from the board. You may discuss the issue, of course, but keep actual links or advice on pirating or other IP-infringement off the board.
Underdog's policy is that they will remove a game if the copyright holder tells them to. In the meantime, they are perfectly happy to offer the game up for download whether or not the company has declared it freeware or not.Zixinus wrote:Well, there is the underdogs site. I dare not give a link, but they claim that if there is anything illegal available from their site, they will remove it. They mostly host games that the original developers called freeware. They also have allot of old shareware games.
If a mod would PM, I would give the link to judge whether its legal enough to go on the forum.
That's called freeware. That's different from abandonware (where the copyright holders have not declared public domain), which is what this discussion is actually about.Zixinus wrote:Technically, its not warez. These are old games from companies that have gone bankrupt a long time ago, and the copyright holders declared public domain as they can't get a cent for it.
The site has a policy not to distribute games that can still be easily bought, either new or used, but that has no bearing whatsoever on the legal status of the games that aren't generally available anymore. There are games on there that have been released into the public domain by their owners, bu the vast majority are still there illegally.Zixinus wrote:Technically, its not warez. These are old games from companies that have gone bankrupt a long time ago, and the copyright holders declared public domain as they can't get a cent for it.
Wrong. There are many games on The Underdogs that are made by companies which are still in business.Zixinus wrote:Technically, its not warez. These are old games from companies that have gone bankrupt a long time ago, and the copyright holders declared public domain as they can't get a cent for it.
It's a shame they're not available all right (although most of the older games I like have open-ish modern frontends so you can still play them). They're within their rights to sit on ownership of all those titles and brands generating zero profit, though, just like 'oh that's never coming out in Australia ever you lose' is quite within their rights.RThurmont wrote:By the way, I think its quite a great tragedy how many wonderful games are effectively suppressed by their owners; releasing old games like those featured on warez sites to the public IMO would not likely harm the revenue streams of publishers anyways, as its not like they're making a ton of money off of those titles anyways...
No one's saying it isn't illegal, we all know that. It seems you completely missed the point that someone made about morality. The person was saying that, while it may legally be considered stealing, if the game cannot be obtained commercially at all, and it doesn't detract at all from the revenue of the game maker (which it doesn't, if the game is no longer sold commercially), then it cannot be considered to be immoral to "steal" the game by downloading it. Illegal, yes. Immoral, no. You're not depriving anyone of money, because the game is impossible to buy anyway.brianeyci wrote:You can't bring morals into it, because you don't need games to have a good quality of life. There's enough free games and free stuff that nobody can seriously say if you don't have this computer game or that computer game, your life suffers.
Might as well admit it's illegal if you do it. Morals is a totally separate issue that shouldn't even come into this. If someone does do it, they shouldn't go around decrying the law like a bible thumper, screaming about how immoral the law is. It doesn't do real moral issues justice.
If you're looking to make yourself feel better, you can find one of Mike's posts saying that lifetime copyright holding is total bullshit and that science works through sharing information, so lifetime copyright for art is bullshit too. But don't kid yourself: it is still illegal.
Who gives a fuck about the morality of the issue? It's really just a weak rationalization to make people feel better about themselves whenever they pirate something. It's a pure luxury item anyway, so it's not as if there's a lot of wiggle room in the morally gray areas. The current copyright laws are a crock, but when it's a luxury that's not sold anymore, you can either:SilverWingedSeraph wrote: No one's saying it isn't illegal, we all know that. It seems you completely missed the point that someone made about morality. The person was saying that, while it may legally be considered stealing, if the game cannot be obtained commercially at all, and it doesn't detract at all from the revenue of the game maker (which it doesn't, if the game is no longer sold commercially), then it cannot be considered to be immoral to "steal" the game by downloading it. Illegal, yes. Immoral, no. You're not depriving anyone of money, because the game is impossible to buy anyway.
Hey, fucking moron the op is talking about illegal, not immoral. Too fucking bad you don't understand that. Then bring up morality for what?SilverWingedSeraph wrote:No one's saying it isn't illegal, we all know that. It seems you completely missed the point that someone made about morality. The person was saying that, while it may legally be considered stealing, if the game cannot be obtained commercially at all, and it doesn't detract at all from the revenue of the game maker (which it doesn't, if the game is no longer sold commercially), then it cannot be considered to be immoral to "steal" the game by downloading it. Illegal, yes. Immoral, no. You're not depriving anyone of money, because the game is impossible to buy anyway.brianeyci wrote:You can't bring morals into it, because you don't need games to have a good quality of life. There's enough free games and free stuff that nobody can seriously say if you don't have this computer game or that computer game, your life suffers.
Might as well admit it's illegal if you do it. Morals is a totally separate issue that shouldn't even come into this. If someone does do it, they shouldn't go around decrying the law like a bible thumper, screaming about how immoral the law is. It doesn't do real moral issues justice.
If you're looking to make yourself feel better, you can find one of Mike's posts saying that lifetime copyright holding is total bullshit and that science works through sharing information, so lifetime copyright for art is bullshit too. But don't kid yourself: it is still illegal.
Sure they are. They're using how immoral it is to make themselves feel better about breaking the law. What a LOAD OF SHIT. If I want to break the law I will do it with eyes wide open and not insert morals where there isn't a true moral dilemma.So read the next time, before you make dumbass comments about people saying that "you can't bring morals into it, because you don't need games to have a good quality of life", and "you shouldn't go around decrying the law like a bible thumper, screaming about immoral the law is", because nobody fucking said anything like that. They said that while downloading abandonware may be illegal, there's nothing immoral about it. The same is not true of warez, where it's effectively stealing money from the game maker, and thusly can be considered immoral.
Yes, let's pretend you aren't taking sides so I can't nail you down, shall we .I don't even care either way, and I'm not taking sides on the matter, saying whether I agree or not. I was just appalled by your complete and utter lack of comprehension.
End statement: Abandonware is illegal unless it's Freeware. If it isn't freeware, and you download it, it's piracy, and it's illegal, regardless of whether you personally consider it to be moral or not.