Old Computer/Video card upgrade advice

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-01-26 04:37pm

Okay, so I finally got around to reformatting my good ol' PC (it had gotten so bad as to be hardly usable). And this time around, I'm using the knowledge I didn't have when I bought the PC (three or so years ago when I was 15 or 16) to keep it clean and running well.

I've been using my MacBook for everything recently, which isn't the best idea (laptops have poor ergonomics, and the 13" screen isn't ideal). My absolutely gorgeous 20" Viewsonic LCD has been sitting on the wayside doing nothing. Now I'm using my PC in 1680x1050 again, and this monitor feels good

as does a fresh well-maintained Windows install.

Here's the specs of the PC (don't laugh).

Sony VAIO PCV-RS320
2.6 GHz Pentium 4 (the later model, 800 MHz bus and HT)
512 MB of RAM
Geforce FX 5200 (128 MB of RAM), AGP 8x
120 GB hard drive

Now, I understand that this GPU is considered laughable. My laptop's Intel GMA950 integrated chip slightly outperforms it, even in games that rely on Hardware Transform and Lighting (which the 950 lacks).

I don't play too many PC games; mostly City of Heroes, the Star Wars Battlefront games, and some old classics I always go back to that I can max out even with this dinky card (like Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force). The more modern games I do play I just turn the settings down to 640x480 or 800x600 or something.

I want to play Portal, mostly

Still, I can't let this 1680x1050 monitor go to waste. I'm not in the market for a new PC, but I'd like to put some upgrades on this so it runs decently. I don't really want to spend too much money on an ancient machine though.

Right now I'm looking to buy an extra 1 GB of RAM stick (regular DDR RAM has no problem with mismatched pairs, like 512 MB + 1 GB, right?), and a 6800LE 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 AGP 4X/8X card off of NewEgg. Each component costs $49; so it's about $100 for all of this.

$100 to triple the RAM and upgrade to a card which, according to benchmarks I see, is about 10x better.

Final specs would be:
Sony VAIO PCV-RS320
2.6 GHz Pentium 4 (the later model, 800 MHz bus and HT)
1.5 MB of RAM
Geforce 6800LE (256 MB of RAM), AGP 8x
120 GB hard drive

Is it worth the money, or will the Geforce 6800 be so inhibited by my slow processor and the AGP slot that it'll be a waste?

I'd rather not spend more than $100 on this machine, since any parts I put in it will be unable to go into future machines (DDR RAM and AGP cards and IDE drives, you know), and my next desktop will probably be an iMac (though I'm not in a huge hurry ATM).

Thanks!

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-01-26 05:04pm

I'd just save the cash for a new machine, personally. Alternately, just plug the peripherals into the MacBook, when you're not taking it on the go. Take a minute to setup and take down each time, but the Macbook is certainly faster than that machine.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2008-01-26 06:32pm

6800LE is a lot faster than FX5200, but it's still pretty slow for Portal. 7600 GS is a lot faster and not much more money. Even if you only got an extra 512 stick instead of 1 GB so you can get the 7600 GS, it would be worth it.

But yes, a new system would be the best option. There's really nothing there that isn't totally obsolete.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-01-26 07:45pm

Beowulf wrote:I'd just save the cash for a new machine, personally. Alternately, just plug the peripherals into the MacBook, when you're not taking it on the go. Take a minute to setup and take down each time, but the Macbook is certainly faster than that machine.

I don't have any kind of docking station, so it gets to be quite a pain to string all the cables around and hook to the MacBook every time. Additionally, there's something to be said about 5400 RPM drives. Can't stand them.

But yes, a new system would be the best option. There's really nothing there that isn't totally obsolete.

$100 would get this thing to the point I could be playing Portal and some modern games on lower settings, right? Obviously not Crysis, but just about any new release should run on low-to-medium. Looks like it passes the minimum requirements for UT3.

I'm really not picky about graphics if I get the game running smoothly.

A new system will cost (guessing off the top of my head) at least $700 to be gaming capable (assuming a decent power supply, $150 GPU, Core 2 Duo, and 250 GB drive) and $1000 for the new iMac I've been eyeing (I can grab it for 20% off at CompUSA while they're closing, they've got a few more on the shelves). Versus paying only $100...

6800LE is a lot faster than FX5200, but it's still pretty slow for Portal. 7600 GS is a lot faster and not much more money. Even if you only got an extra 512 stick instead of 1 GB so you can get the 7600 GS, it would be worth it.

Hmm, looks like you're right there...but the 7600 GS in AGP form costs notably more than the PCIe one. $40 more than the 6800LE.

So that's $100 for a Geforce 6800LE and 1 GB of RAM, or $120 for a Geforce 7600GS and 512 MB of RAM. Which would you put into an older machine that you don't want to sink too much money in to but would like to be usable?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2008-01-26 08:10pm

You could save a little cash and snag a 7600 off of ebay, they appear to go for around $90.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2008-01-26 10:20pm

I doubt you're going to be using the 1.5 GB to its potential with 6800 LE. 1 GB RAM and 7600 GS is my choice any day of the week. I'm running a 7600 GT with 1 GB RAM and it still runs most new games acceptably.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-01-27 02:07am

Well, I'm leaning towards 7600GS and 1 GB of RAM over 1.5 GB and 6800LE simply due to the fact that more of you agree on that. But it's worth noting that I do more than just gaming on it. I'll be web surfing, doing homework (which with my current classes involves Dreamweaver), and do web maintenance (often involving Photoshop- not on multi-GB images, but making buttons and backdrops to use on web pages or articles).

So RAM sounds appealing for that stuff. Then again, the better GPU sounds more appealing for gaming. How big a difference is seen in 1 vs 1.5 GB in heavy multitasking?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2008-01-27 02:42am

You know for double the money you could build yourself a cheap little dual core machine:
AM2 x2 3800+ $50
Asus Micro ATX motherboard (AM2) $40
2GB Muskin DDR2 800 RAM $40

Gut this machine you've got, and put the above inside it plus whatever PCI express GPU you feel you can afford and you've got yourself a very solid little machine. I agree that AMD's processors aren't as good, but so what? This is cheap and fairly powerful. Hell I'm still running on an x2 3800 without problem. You won't be putting a phenom in this guy, but there is room to grow.

For comparison, the cheapest core 2 is around $150, about as expensive as the most expensive AM2 processor.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-01-27 02:54am

InnocentBystander wrote:You know for double the money you could build yourself a cheap little dual core machine:
AM2 x2 3800+ $50
Asus Micro ATX motherboard (AM2) $40
2GB Muskin DDR2 800 RAM $40

Gut this machine you've got, and put the above inside it plus whatever PCI express GPU you feel you can afford and you've got yourself a very solid little machine. I agree that AMD's processors aren't as good, but so what? This is cheap and fairly powerful. Hell I'm still running on an x2 3800 without problem. You won't be putting a phenom in this guy, but there is room to grow.

For comparison, the cheapest core 2 is around $150, about as expensive as the most expensive AM2 processor.

2 GB of RAM for $40? Surely you jest.

Also, won't a new motherboard likely lack ATA (due to serial ATA) making it difficult to use my old hard drive and DVD-RW?

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-01-27 02:54am

The thing is that you'll be paying a pretty big premium on those parts compared to modern components (1GB DDR is about double the price of 1GB DDR2 for example, similarly stupid price premiums for decent AGP cards compared to PCIE), so much so that I would really just retask that desktop into a home server or something and simply buy a new computer. Patching the thing up in the way you plan to will bring you little.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-01-27 02:58am

InnocentBystander wrote:I agree that AMD's processors aren't as good, but so what? This is cheap and fairly powerful. Hell I'm still running on an x2 3800 without problem. You won't be putting a phenom in this guy, but there is room to grow.

For comparison, the cheapest core 2 is around $150, about as expensive as the most expensive AM2 processor.

AMD processors are much better in price/performance (most recently, it has been shown in those P/P stats at 3dmark) all the way up near the level where they can't keep up with Intel. Buying the slower Core 2 Duos is a marketing driven decision - for 1000$ and lower PCs AMD is the way to go.

Praxis wrote:Also, won't a new motherboard likely lack ATA (due to serial ATA) making it difficult to use my old hard drive and DVD-RW?

It will still have at least one IDE (PATA) channel - they still put them in since most optical drives are still PATA.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-01-27 03:00am

Praxis wrote:2 GB of RAM for $40? Surely you jest.

Also, won't a new motherboard likely lack ATA (due to serial ATA) making it difficult to use my old hard drive and DVD-RW?

Not a jest

I'm not sure which AM2 MB Innocent is referring to, but most MB still have a PATA port. You just have one port though. However, for another $100 you can get a new SATA HDD. Or for $30, you can get a SATA DVD.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-01-27 03:02am

Or he could get an IDE cable with a bit of length between the connectors.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2008-01-27 03:27am

Praxis wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:You know for double the money you could build yourself a cheap little dual core machine:
AM2 x2 3800+ $50
Asus Micro ATX motherboard (AM2) $40
2GB Muskin DDR2 800 RAM $40

Gut this machine you've got, and put the above inside it plus whatever PCI express GPU you feel you can afford and you've got yourself a very solid little machine. I agree that AMD's processors aren't as good, but so what? This is cheap and fairly powerful. Hell I'm still running on an x2 3800 without problem. You won't be putting a phenom in this guy, but there is room to grow.

For comparison, the cheapest core 2 is around $150, about as expensive as the most expensive AM2 processor.
2 GB of RAM for $40? Surely you jest.

Also, won't a new motherboard likely lack ATA (due to serial ATA) making it difficult to use my old hard drive and DVD-RW?

DDR2 is dirt cheap.

They should all support, at minimum, 1 ATA device, though many support 2. Plus for $20 you could snag an IDE to SATA adapter.
The only thing to watch out for is your current power supply which might be a 20 pin rather than a 24 pin (however I noticed that these can be had on the cheap).

Beowulf wrote:Not a jest

I'm not sure which AM2 MB Innocent is referring to, but most MB still have a PATA port. You just have one port though. However, for another $100 you can get a new SATA HDD. Or for $30, you can get a SATA DVD.

I was looking at an open box asus micro atx motherboard, but I'd avoid open box. Just search newegg for am2 <$50 and find one which suits you.

Netko wrote:The thing is that you'll be paying a pretty big premium on those parts compared to modern components (1GB DDR is about double the price of 1GB DDR2 for example, similarly stupid price premiums for decent AGP cards compared to PCIE), so much so that I would really just retask that desktop into a home server or something and simply buy a new computer. Patching the thing up in the way you plan to will bring you little.

Then he would need to buy a new case, power supply, hardrive and maybe an optical drive (you wouldn't *need* one, but switching 1 drive between 2 machines would be annoying). Those are all cheap, but its at least another $100.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-01-27 03:52am

But if he goes the new computer route, he then has two computers, and the older one is perfectly serviceable as a web/internet/office machine or a home server type installation. Or sell it off as a cheap machine to cover said extra components which are certainly going to be better then the ones he has. While if he goes the upgrade route he suddenly has a bunch of relatively obsolete computer guts on the shelf that he can't sell off at any price, certainly nowhere near the amount he would get selling them as part of a functioning computer.