Laptop for College?

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-02-01 06:56pm

I'll be going to college next year, and I'm looking to buy a laptop. There are two trains of thought here:

1. I bring my desktop computer, and get a small light laptop that doesn't necessarily have the greatest CPU or graphics card.

2. I don't bring my desktop and get a beefier laptop that can be used for gaming.

First of all, what are some good models/manufacturers to look for? For option two, I've been looking around on Newegg and I see that Asus makes some pretty decent systems that are also easy on the wallet. For option one, I dunno. I'd prefer a non-mac for ease of compatibility.

Secondly, when would be a good time to buy it? I want to get a good deal, and I also want some time to break it in before leaving home.

Losonti Tokash · Post by **Losonti Tokash** » 2008-02-01 07:19pm

I'd recommend bringing your desktop, unless your dorm is ridiculously small. Much as I love my laptop I could have gotten a much more powerful desktop for the same price.

Best Buy has pretty good deals on laptops, especially HP. I got a decent one with 1.9ghz, 2g RAM, a sizable hard drive, and a Geforce graphics card for around $650. The price had actually dropped $200 when I went to get it which was nice. As you can guess from the price, it's not super powerful, but it's enough to run World in Conflict so it's good for me.

Oh, and it's pretty capable of doing homework, too.

As for when I bought it, it was during the lead up to Christmas so I doubt you'll get any ridiculous sales like I did. Unless you feel like waiting a whole year to save money on your laptop. I'm not really sure of other times of the year that computers typically go on sale, but perhaps the month preceding the beginning of classes. Back to school sales might get you a modest bargain and you'll get more bang for your buck if you wait a few months anyway.

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-02-01 07:36pm

Hawkwings wrote:I'll be going to college next year, and I'm looking to buy a laptop. There are two trains of thought here:

1. I bring my desktop computer, and get a small light laptop that doesn't necessarily have the greatest CPU or graphics card.

It sounds like the EeePC would be a good fit for you. It's low cost, light, and from what I've read durable. All three of which you want in a laptop that you haul around to class. While it comes with Linux, you can install XP (the drivers are on the website). the only catch is that you might need an external optical drive to do so.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-02-01 07:53pm

People have installed XP on to EEEs without needing an external optical. See the eeeuser forum

Also, they're planning on having versions with WinXP preinstalled available soon.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-02-01 08:23pm

I dunno, I think the Eee PC may be a bit too small. I'm not looking for a sub-notebook, just a small one.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-02-01 08:40pm

Hawkwings wrote:I dunno, I think the Eee PC may be a bit too small. I'm not looking for a sub-notebook, just a small one.

The more you walk on campus, the more you're going to appreciate the size. If you want something slightly larger, the Dell M1330 has been rather well thought of. I'm sure they have a student discount, they just make it difficult to find out how much. It'd cost at least twice as much as the EEE, most likely.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-02-01 08:58pm

Have to second the M1330. If you want a bigger screen (and more features like a better graphic card), the M1530 will do fine as well.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 2008-02-02 12:42am

the eee has a chicklet keyboard. automatic fail.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2008-02-02 03:16am

Depends on what kind of gaming you do. If you're looking to play modern games, I suggest hanging onto your desktop, otherwise I suggest looking into a nice 15.4" laptop with an 8600gt.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2008-02-02 03:35am

What are you studying math?

If I may be so bold, fuck the laptop. The reasons are many -- I listed them in my post to Zaia a long time ago when she got her laptop (not sure if she did get it or not) but it comes down to this. It's hard as shit to put in math into your laptop, and even if you can you use it as tablet it's a pain in the ass. There's possibility of everything going to shit when your computer dies, and near zero possibility with paper notes. Battery life is also a pain in the ass.

I would go with option 1 and only if I absolutely needed my laptop for say computer science would I bring it. Or taking notes in a humanities course where the professor speaks a mile a minute.

===

Where were you five years ago eee laptop

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-02-02 03:51am

I'd say anything above 15 inches is too big (assuming non-widescreen, harder to find nowadays- if widescreen, lower the number). I think my T22 (which is unfortunately slowly dying) w/ a 14" screen the best size, but YMMV.

I've generally have had poor luck w/ used laptops, since the plastics tend to get brittle over time- my 7-8 year old Thinkpad has developed numerous cracks all over the place. Then again, I handle things fairly roughly. You may have better luck with something that is more modern.

The default Linux on the EeePC should be fine for what you want to do other than games, which you should be doing on a desktop. Depends on what kind of student you are though- I'm Computer Engineering and most stuff that has to be done on a computer is done in Matlab which runs on Linux (I run it off the university server though since I'm cheap and lazy), or done on software that isn't released to students anyway (namely the VHDL simulation software). Java is obviously cross platform, so no issue there.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-02-02 04:36am

Where'd it say he was studying math

.

Anyway, yeah, math and engineering classes aren't really good for notes typed out on a laptop (I've found it impossible to hammer out LaTeX out fast enough in class, and crude shorthand becomes incomprehensible, and diagrams can't be typed out). Laptops are good for looking up stuff that the professor says in class, but that's about it. In humanities courses, that's less of a problem. The laptop being a distraction is also a problem- don't bring it unless you're sufficiently disciplined to not go browsing the internet.

A tablet (which is expensive) may be better for math an engineerings- I'd suggest just putting notes on paper, and perhaps scanning it like me if you're disorganized and can't keep paper together.

My main use for the laptop is in labs for data collection and just to kill time in between classes as I live off campus and can't be bothered to drive back (now not even an option since I'm now car-less until summer).

There's possibility of everything going to shit when your computer dies, and near zero possibility with paper notes. Battery life is also a pain in the ass.

I've never had problems w/ losing any assignments if they are on a computer- then again, I've never really had serious failures, and I have at least 2-3 computers (work laptop, personal laptop, desktop, fileserver), and during the course of normal usage stuff gets copied and strewn across most of them (one useful thing about having a laptop).
I have had much less luck not losing my physical notes or keeping them organized in any useful fashion, which results in simply not taking notes and just listening and understanding things as they are said using the textbook as the primary reference. Really depends on the person. The benefit of having stuff on the computer is that they can be found instantly without flipping around in a notebook (or if one is sufficiently disorganized, a pile jammed inside a textbook which may not even be there).

Most places at GMU have a readily available outlet, so battery life isn't a problem. And if it is, just get a bigger/more batteries. Batteries are cheap on ebay- then again, those are third party batteries that may or may not explode......

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2008-02-02 05:05am

Well if he's not taking some kind of math he better not go

.

I meant to say, "What are you studying, math?" rather than "What are you studying math?" What a difference one comma makes.

Computers also suck for trading notes with other people. Unless your school is very upscale and everybody has a laptop, there will be some friends who do not have, and it is a pain in the arse to print rather than bring loose leaf in binders. Which is also why loose leaf in binders is superior to notebooks, but that's another story.

The distraction part is a serious problem because you just don't fucking know if you'll survive first year, or if your work habits are good enough. There's no way to tell if you're good enough until you actually get there, so you don't want to stack the odds against yourself by finding an unknown flaw. You don't know if the laptop will be too much of a distraction for you, because every hour may count, so I would shelve for the first semester at least and only shit it out if you get good grades.

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2008-02-02 03:08pm

A good laptop should have a slim build, because it's lighter and thus easier on your lap. Also, shouldn't be too noisy. Nothing bothers people like noise in a quiet area.

Try to go with a brunette, they're in fashion this year.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2008-02-02 03:38pm

If you do want to input math into the computer, then the eeePC might not be such a bad choice -- the fact that it comes preloaded with Linux means it's trivially easy to install TeX, which is probably about one of the best languages for inputting equations once you learn it.

Plus it's super-tiny so it's as easy to lug around as a small book.

Of course, if you just want it for playing the latest and greatest games, then it's not for you, but neither is any laptop. The difficulty of upgrading a laptop means that you'll only be able to play the latest games for 1-2 years before it's outdated and you need a new laptop.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-02-02 04:00pm

I'm planning on studying engineering, so definitely lots of math and diagrams.

Good point about the distraction thing. If I were to not bring a laptop, what would I miss out on/have to find alternatives for (assuming I bring my desktop).

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-02-02 09:09pm

Hawkwings wrote:I'm planning on studying engineering, so definitely lots of math and diagrams.

Good point about the distraction thing. If I were to not bring a laptop, what would I miss out on/have to find alternatives for (assuming I bring my desktop).

Two Things:

Live searching for answers to questions when you haven't been given the answers or you didn't read the fracking chapter.

And

Inputing notes into a computer, but this is a double edged sword. Any low cost laptop (the Eee included) isn't going to be easy to input graphical notes on (I didn't have the Eee, but I was studding engineering myself, and it was a huge pain - the only classes that it truly helped in were Comm and Humanities [the later to prove the prof wrong time after time, and to bring up his crappy power-points on a scale that I could read]). Graph paper and a scanner are probably going to be a good bet. Tapping away at the library, courtyard, TV room, Laundry room, or other places may sound appealing, but trust me, it isn't worth it most of the time.

Plus you can't make paper airplanes out of a laptop when your econ professor shows up 15 minutes late.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-02-02 10:03pm

If you are going to input equations by the tonne into the computer, you are better off writing it on paper, or learning, with superhuman speed, to type in LaTeX.

I am not entirely sure how they teach engineering (though it seems a lot of understanding equations than learning how it is derived), but in general, you don't really need a laptop for lessons (at least at Michigan).

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-02-02 10:24pm

Hmm... for graphical notes, a tablet PC might work best (can just draw on the tablet). Then you can redo it better later. Alternatively, you can get a drawing tablet (like a Wacom Bamboo). Doesn't give quite the same effect, but significantly cheaper. The tablet PC is going to be significantly more expensive than a normal laptop.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-02-02 10:38pm

Beowulf wrote:Hmm... for graphical notes, a tablet PC might work best (can just draw on the tablet). Then you can redo it better later. Alternatively, you can get a drawing tablet (like a Wacom Bamboo). Doesn't give quite the same effect, but significantly cheaper. The tablet PC is going to be significantly more expensive than a normal laptop.

I'd just go for handwritten notes for anything that isn't the humanities, and scan it in later. Tablets just don't feel the same. And a drawing tablet would be unwieldy in class.

brianeyci wrote: Computers also suck for trading notes with other people. Unless your school is very upscale and everybody has a laptop, there will be some friends who do not have, and it is a pain in the arse to print rather than bring loose leaf in binders. Which is also why loose leaf in binders is superior to notebooks, but that's another story.

Well, it's much faster to email someone the notes and have them print stuff out themselves rather than running down to the copy machine or scanning it to duplicate (though I got a sheetfeeder for my 11yro SCSI scanner

for the purpose of scanning notes). For disorganized people like me, having a digital copy is immensely useful if one tends to lose the physical copy. Not everyone can be trusted with/will trust others with the sole copy of notes.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-02-03 04:37am

For engineering, if you aren't going to get a tablet PC, just forget the laptop. It will only be a distraction in class (and depending on the attitude of the faculty, some professors might not look too kindly at having a laptop in class, especially those of the more traditional, math and physics courses). There might be a minor advantage of being able to load up the presentation and study it in more detail, but unless you have a tablet you can't effectively take notes on a computer in a math and diagram heavy class. And the aforementioned math and physics traditionalists - which you will encounter at least the first two years at an engineering school - still prefer the blackboard to presentations so their presentations tend to be useless and so if you find yourself near exam time with no notes of your own and the only public notes are the presentations - you better pray that you have a friend who took really good notes and that your textbook isn't sucktastic (which would be at least half of them). So, all in all, unless you're getting a tablet, having a laptop will be marginally beneficial (it does help when you go to the library to study and then realise that you haven't printed out that oh-so-important piece of material and similar out of class experiences).

On the other hand, Brian's complaint about not having a laptop or computer is utter rubbish at today's universities. Tons of stuff gets posted exclusively online by the faculty (usually with lame offline reserve options that are masochistic to use like designated labs etc.), usually there are newsgroups and forums for students (faculty-sponsored or otherwise -> find out about them early, they're the most useful resource for learning after learning buddies), etc. I know for certain that without online resources I would not have been able to progress beyond the first year. So everyone with even half a brain will have some sort of PC of his own (designated computer labs are a joke), and, considering the trends, almost all of those will be laptops (not that many actually game on the PC). His other point about not letting it become a distraction is very valid though.

eyl · Post by **eyl** » 2008-02-03 06:43am

An alternative to a tablet would be to get a digital pen* such as Navinote, which allows you to both write on paper and transfer the results to your laptop at the same time. That said, for nonhumanities a laptop will probably be more trouble than its worth; paper tends to be much more convenient, in my experience (at least for class; a laptop is useful for papers and such).

Regarding price, I don't know how common this is in the US, but over here there are usually discounted offers for laptops through the Student Union.

*I should note I've never actually used one, so take it this with a grain of salt

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2008-02-03 08:38am

You only lend out notes to people who you think will be friends anyway, not to total strangers. Elsewise you get caught in the trap of a circle of twenty guys, all who aren't really friends, who just copy everybody's homework. Better one good study pal than a hundred guys. Scanning notes or e-mailing notes often results in the notes sitting unused in your mailbox. Trust me, loose leaf paper in a binder is the best. Don't get suckered into a clipboard too. It seems nice to not have to carry around binders, but if you're taking 8 courses that's 8 different courses in one clipboard and there's no way that's organized for more than a couple days. I would get a set of eight or ten 1" binders rather than a computer for notes.

Unless you already know LaTeX and have significant experience typing up problem sets in high school, you do not want to learn first semester. That stuff you read about look to your left look to your right the guys will fail is true for engineering. If it was pure math you could risk it since the math specialists take their time keying in the problem sets, but you'll be so fucking busy there's no point keying it in. Any math department worth its salt does not recommend students key in their problem sets, because it's basically a waste of time except to make it look good. Plus, copying out by hand is good if you're a kinetic learner. Yes, it increases the risk of transcription errors, and yes, copying out something three times sucks, but you better be prepared to copy out something five times or more because note revision is how you'll live.

You don't want to spend more than ten minutes a day on a computer in your first semester, maybe one day a week for 30 minutes, or else you risk failure in an engineering program. I honestly would not unpack my desktop at first at all, and wait until the second semester and use school computers (which are locked out with no games for a reason -- think about that) to check e-mail. It's only 4 months.

If you really want to make it in engineering, if you really want to see what you're made of, fuck the laptop. Too many people fail because of computers, and I'm not saying you're one of them, but you basically do not know until you get there if you're ahead of the pack and can spend every night jerking off, or if you bring up the rear and have to work your ass off. And if a program is worth your cash anyway, it's impossible to jerk off and do well or even live.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2008-02-03 08:42am

Netko wrote:On the other hand, Brian's complaint about not having a laptop or computer is utter rubbish at today's universities. Tons of stuff gets posted exclusively online by the faculty (usually with lame offline reserve options that are masochistic to use like designated labs etc.), usually there are newsgroups and forums for students (faculty-sponsored or otherwise -> find out about them early, they're the most useful resource for learning after learning buddies), etc. I know for certain that without online resources I would not have been able to progress beyond the first year. So everyone with even half a brain will have some sort of PC of his own (designated computer labs are a joke), and, considering the trends, almost all of those will be laptops (not that many actually game on the PC). His other point about not letting it become a distraction is very valid though.

Maybe piece of shit universities have shitty computer labs, but you shouldn't go to a shitty university anyway. Printing out handouts and notes only takes a few minutes. You need a printed copy of all online resources because you want to write in the margin, underline, highlight and make notes. If you don't do this you're an exception. So it is all in hard copy, all printed, taking no longer than a few minutes or if you suck at computers a few hours to print everything.

A personal PC is absolutely not needed, and also a tremendous waste of resources. It's like driving with only one guy in the car. You think about that. You can't have it both ways -- either you recommend the man get a laptop or you don't, so you say "it's a distraction" is a valid point but "you need it for school" is a valid point too?

Rubbish my ass.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-02-03 10:11am

I personally find its better to summarize the material for yourself on a few sheets of paper rather then writing all over it, because once you understand a concept you don't really need all that text explaining it step by step, while the formulas and equations tend to be a bit harder to memorise so making your own seperate summary notes works for me the best. Printing material is still a good policy, I agree, however its still much more comfortable, reliable and faster to do it from your own computer then to trek down to the labs, hope there's a spot available, hope that nobody fucked up the printer or a myriad of other problems.

My advice above could have been clearer, I agree. Let me try to clarify. I think that generally, you should have some sort of computer that is reliably available for when you study (those unofficial online resources again), however you should carefully manage your computer time and not allow it to become a distraction. Also, having a laptop for taking to classes is practically useless unless that laptop is a tablet for engineering classes (and humanities classes tend to be jokingly easy in a engineering programme, so you don't really need it there either), however any laptop does help for reference when studying and other out-of-class situations.

Its not my fault that your university apparently is still living in the dark ages Brian and does not have a thriving online community that allows you to interact online with your peers and thus get answers and other information about your classes that makes it very useful to be able to check on it regularly rather then just every so often when you are at the computer lab. For example, right now I'm studying for my Electronics 1 exam, and my only official material is the official script which I use for reference when I need to read up on a subject in detail or I don't get how something functions. I get far more mileage from tutorials my peers have made, old exams available from the unofficial site, strategies and deliberations about what questions are likely to show up and simply the back and forth questions and answers on the unofficial forum from the people that are taking the exam at the same time I am. You find a problem, can't figure it out from the material? You ask - and somebody who has either passed the subject or who is taking the subject but has figured it out will answer most of the time. Being able to check the current discussion every few hours is invaluable. Waste of resources? How about not a waste of my time and me potentially missing important helpful information?

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