Nintendo fanboys get served a healthy meal of cock.

[weemadando]

You need to go to VG Cats homepage, just to give the hits that this thing deserves.

It's just brilliant. I love it. Because it's true. So very, very true.

[DaveJB]

Honestly, this isn't really very different to what happened with the GameCube. Nintendo blew their entire wad in its first 18 months with that as well, after which it withered and died. The difference is that people's reactions then were "Meh, Nintendo fucked up again," whereas this time it's "RAAAAAAARGHHH HOW FUCKING DARE NINTENDO IGNORE US HARDCORE GAMERS?!"

Don't anyone kid themselves - this is the exact thing that would have happened with the GameCube if it had actually had any sort of selling point beyond Nintendo's games, instead of essentially being just an N64 with better graphics and that goofy mini-DVD drive. The real question is, what the hell are the third-party developers doing? Usually a successful console starts out with clunky ports from other systems, followed by a load of crappy shovelware titles before finally getting to the truly good third-party games. For whatever reason though the Wii seems stuck in the second stage.

[Resinence]

You can't port Triple A titles to wii, the hardware isn't up to the task (no, you can't fucking just strip assets, you basically have to remake your game, just thought I'd mention that before a "but you can just make it look bad" fucktard shows up) and if you make your game for the wii, the rest of the market is likely to go "what the fuck is this shit?" if you release it on the other (powerful) platforms. So basically now nintendo has a huge following of small developers making party games and shovelware, and the huge development houses are reluctant to start making games for it. This is what happens when you release a console with last generation hardware to keep the price down. Yeah, it's as "powerful as the xbox", but also lacks like a bazillion hardware features such as programmable shaders that the xbox had, and has about as much memory as the average PC in 1997.

[JointStrikeFighter]

You can't port Triple A titles to wii, the hardware isn't up to the task (no, you can't fucking just strip assets, you basically have to remake your game, just thought I'd mention that before a "but you can just make it look bad" fucktard shows up) and if you make your game for the wii, the rest of the market is likely to go "what the fuck is this shit?" if you release it on the other (powerful) platforms. So basically now nintendo has a huge following of small developers making party games and shovelware, and the huge development houses are reluctant to start making games for it. This is what happens when you release a console with last generation hardware to keep the price down. Yeah, it's as "powerful as the xbox", but also lacks like a bazillion hardware features such as programmable shaders that the xbox had, and has about as much memory as the average PC in 1997.

4mb of tex memory

protip; real ammount of tex = 3 cents extra.

[Dooey Jo]

Seems to me that Nintendo is trying to figure out how to make games that appeal to the mainstream, and not necessarily the "gamers" that crave Shiny New FPS #3000. It'll probably take several crap games to get that right because no-one has really done it before. The reason why they would do this is obvious, and that they want to do this has been obvious since they launched that video of whole families sitting around doing stuff with their Wiimotes.

I, for one, could not care less if that makes the hardcore types cry.

[Resinence]

4mb of tex memory

protip; real ammount of tex = 3 cents extra.

The graphics chip has 24mb of memory available, the framebuffer is 3mb not 4.

More memory being 3 cents is irrelevant, the whole machine is built at the bottom end of performance to save costs, and they saved a lot more than 3 cents when they are making profits of such cheap machines.

ps. I hear using standard chip sizes like 32mb and 4mb is retarded, I mean why else would nintendo do it. They are awesome and never make mistakes I hear.

edit: The wii has been out nearly 2 years now, how long do you plan to keep insisting that "they just need time to get it right"? Did you SEE nintendo's e3 show this year?

[DaveJB]

So just to recap, Nintendo are a bunch of greedy profiteers who've stopped caring about their customers, Microsoft make crappy, unreliable consoles and only started caring about their customers when the shit hit the fan, and Sony are just plain crap. Clearly we need Sega to return and show everyone else how it's done!

[DPDarkPrimus]

VGCats is the only comic I know of that can have 30 panels and not one single joke.

[Feil]

So just to recap, Nintendo are a bunch of greedy profiteers who've stopped caring about a tiny, largely stagnant niche market

Fixed it for ya

There will always be games "by gamers, for gamers", because gamers will continue to exist and will continue to want such games. But such games are not playable by the mainstream population. Ever watch your girlfriend try to play a first person shooter? It's like watching a drunken earthworm try to do kickboxing. People don't want to play games with awesome physics engines with cutting edge graphics and powerful AI. They want to play Wii Bowling and Solitaire, because they're easy and fun.

[Ohma]

Ever watch your girlfriend try to play a first person shooter? It's like watching a drunken earthworm try to do kickboxing.

Hell, try watching a parent play Katamari Damacy, it's amazing how frustrated someone can get just trying to roll a ball around to pick up stuff.

[Ender]

Oh, that is about Nintendo? I thought it was from him to his readers.

[Commander 598]

You can't port Triple A titles to wii, the hardware isn't up to the task (no, you can't fucking just strip assets, you basically have to remake your game, just thought I'd mention that before a "but you can just make it look bad" fucktard shows up) and if you make your game for the wii, the rest of the market is likely to go "what the fuck is this shit?" if you release it on the other (powerful) platforms. So basically now nintendo has a huge following of small developers making party games and shovelware, and the huge development houses are reluctant to start making games for it. This is what happens when you release a console with last generation hardware to keep the price down. Yeah, it's as "powerful as the xbox", but also lacks like a bazillion hardware features such as programmable shaders that the xbox had, and has about as much memory as the average PC in 1997.

This. I've literally heard it from the mouth of a developer. He works at EA Tiburon and does the Madden series. Said that the Wii version would either have to be PS2 visuals (I think he said it was literally using PS2 Madden's engine or something) for however long the Wii is gonna stay around or they were gonna have to actually do something (He hinted at cell shading and something about the controls) with it.

[TheFeniX]

Is anyone really surprised? Instead of listening to the high school jock talk shit because you play video games, you now have to deal with his drunk and possibly stoned antics on XBox Live.

Why would any intelligent game developer completely pander to "hardcore" gamers? There's no real money in it. The last game I bought for PC worth any serious amount of money was TF2 (as part of the Orange Box). Before that, BF2. And before that Jedi Academy. I also play a lot of free mods for Half-Life 2. So, you're talking minimum a year before I dish out another $50-$60 for a new title.

Look at some of the best selling games of all time:

GTA: people love violence. Big surprise.
The Sims: casual and uninspiring gameplay defined.
Halo 3: sure, there's a hardcore market for it (as harcore as an FPS on a console can be), but what does 90% of online play consist of? Idiots, but that's true with anything on XBLive.

Gamers like me buy a game and stick with it for a long time. The average casual gamer buys a game, plays for a bit, then trades it in for something else a month later. They're like walking cash dispensers. Gamestop built an industry off this.

[Vendetta]

The real question is, what the hell are the third-party developers doing? Usually a successful console starts out with clunky ports from other systems, followed by a load of crappy shovelware titles before finally getting to the truly good third-party games. For whatever reason though the Wii seems stuck in the second stage.

Basically, they still can't get their heads around the control scheme. Everyone thinks "We must do something with the wii controller because it's got all these features and people will expect it", then when this leads to a broken and shit game experience and no-one buys their game, they throw a sulk and go back to the systems they can program for.

Why would any intelligent game developer completely pander to "hardcore" gamers?

Hardcore gamers buy a lot of games. Most people I know who are dedicated gamers, myself included, will have five or ten times the average number of games for their chosen platforms.

There are, essentially, two markets for games. The "hardcore" market is a few people who spend a lot of money each, the "casual" market is a lot of people who spend a small amount of money each. A developer can pitch at either and get roughly the same results.

[Commander 598]

Halo 3: sure, there's a hardcore market for it (as harcore as an FPS on a console can be), but what does 90% of online play consist of? Idiots, but that's true with anything online.

Fixed for accuracy. The only difference between XBL and any online game on the PC is that more people on XBL have mics.

[DaveJB]

Hardcore gamers buy a lot of games. Most people I know who are dedicated gamers, myself included, will have five or ten times the average number of games for their chosen platforms.

There are, essentially, two markets for games. The "hardcore" market is a few people who spend a lot of money each, the "casual" market is a lot of people who spend a small amount of money each. A developer can pitch at either and get roughly the same results.

It's worth noting that the winner of each console generation has been the one that has been able to appeal to the casual gamer. The 2600 and NES managed to do that by being new and rad, the PS1 opened up the market for more mature games, the PS2 got a lot of purchases purely for its DVD playing features, and the Wii's control scheme has been key to its success so far.

[TheFeniX]

Hardcore gamers buy a lot of games. Most people I know who are dedicated gamers, myself included, will have five or ten times the average number of games for their chosen platforms.

Not in my experience. Most of the gamers I deal with in our community are still playing BF2 like it's going out of style. The same could be said with Counter-Strike Source. Hell, look at the amount of Counter-Strike 1.6 players still in existence.

There are, essentially, two markets for games. The "hardcore" market is a few people who spend a lot of money each, the "casual" market is a lot of people who spend a small amount of money each. A developer can pitch at either and get roughly the same results.

But there's even a split in those groups.

There's hardcore gamers who must have every triple-A title on release day who also tend to latch onto a series (like Halo, Final Fantasy, etc) and buy anything sporting that logo. I should have boycotted LucasArts years ago after all the shovelware, but the few rare gems they release when the planets align just right keeps me going.

Then you have hardcore gamers who find their game and just won't let it die. Counter-Strike, Natural Selection (not so much, but it worth noting because it's a free mod for HL1), Battlefield 2. These all still have very large "vanilla" player-bases.

Now, for casual gamers you have the guys who just buy a game once in a while for kicks, then go back to their daily lives. These people aren't worthwhile to anyone but a console maker.

Then there's the MMO-crowd, which I could dedicate an entire thread to. It's like a combination of The Sims with a lot more useless grinding. I know at least two people (not counting my girlfriend's parents) who literally have to devote time to every mainstream MMO that comes out. Recently it was SW Galaxies, then Wow, now it's that Conan one. They're like addicts. And anything outside an MMO is verboten to them.

But, there's the casual gamer who latches onto a genre and just drives it into the ground. I'm sitting next to one of those people right now. He won't play an FPS or RTS to save his life. But he literally has owned almost every sport and racing game ever made since the PS2 hit shelves. This guy is a slot machine for sport devs that pays out on every lever pull. He constantly asks me if I've bought the new Madden game, even though I've told him numerous times the only football game worth playing is NFL: Blitz.

[Vendetta]

It's worth noting that the winner of each console generation has been the one that has been able to appeal to the casual gamer. The 2600 and NES managed to do that by being new and rad, the PS1 opened up the market for more mature games, the PS2 got a lot of purchases purely for its DVD playing features, and the Wii's control scheme has been key to its success so far.

True. At a console level, the winner is always going to be the one with the wide sales base. Until now, that has always dragged the rest of the market with it.

At a publisher level, it's not as clear cut in this generation. The Wii, for example, has an attach rate of about 5, but only 27 games have sold over a million units, whereas the Xbox 360, with two thirds of the sales base, has 42 individual million selling titles and an attach rate of 7. (the total numbers for all games that have sold over a million on both platforms are within shouting distance of each other, but that does include the sales of Wii Sports, which is a pack in in two regions for the Wii, boosting it's numbers considerably, since in Japan, where it's not packed in, only about 50% of Wii owners buy it).

A publisher might look at those figures (and the other one, which is that of the top 15 selling Wii titles only three are not published by Nintendo, and one of those still has Mario in) and consider very hard whether they want a small slice of a big pie or a big slice of a small pie.

That's probably another reason why third parties are very wary of the Wii. On the other platforms, there's not that kind of firstparty dominance of software sales. (Microsoft only publish 3 of the top 15 Xbox 360 sellers, and Sony only 5 of the top 15 PS3 sellers)

[Vendetta]

Not in my experience. Most of the gamers I deal with in our community are still playing BF2 like it's going out of style. The same could be said with Counter-Strike Source. Hell, look at the amount of Counter-Strike 1.6 players still in existence.

If "our community" is a community based around particular games, you'd expect people to play those games a lot, especially if they're old, because only the dedicated fans are left. If you go to a general gaming board and put out a "How many games do you own" poll, you'll find a different picture. People will either own a few, close to the attach rate, or a lot, many times in excess of it. (if I polled through my Xbox friends list for games played I'd probably pull up a similar result, though that would be skewed by games lent or live arcade titles demoed)

Then you have hardcore gamers who find their game and just won't let it die. Counter-Strike, Natural Selection (not so much, but it worth noting because it's a free mod for HL1), Battlefield 2. These all still have very large "vanilla" player-bases.

From a software publisher's point of view though, they may as well not exist. Activision didn't try and market Call of Duty 4 to people still playing Counter-Strike, because anyone still playing Counter-Strike after all this time is a lost cause sales wise anyway.

But, there's the casual gamer who latches onto a genre and just drives it into the ground. I'm sitting next to one of those people right now. He won't play an FPS or RTS to save his life. But he literally has owned almost every sport and racing game ever made since the PS2 hit shelves. This guy is a slot machine for sport devs that pays out on every lever pull. He constantly asks me if I've bought the new Madden game, even though I've told him numerous times the only football game worth playing is NFL: Blitz.

But then if they buy a lot of games and spend a lot of time playing them, even if it's only one type of game, how "casual" are they really? They're clearly willing to invest a great deal of time and money into the hobby.

[TheFeniX]

If "our community" is a community based around particular games, you'd expect people to play those games a lot, especially if they're old, because only the dedicated fans are left. If you go to a general gaming board and put out a "How many games do you own" poll, you'll find a different picture. People will either own a few, close to the attach rate, or a lot, many times in excess of it. (if I polled through my Xbox friends list for games played I'd probably pull up a similar result, though that would be skewed by games lent or live arcade titles demoed)

I think there's the disconnect: console games would have less longevity due to the lack of extra content. Sure, you have extra content downloads now (map packs, Mass Effect extra campaign set, etc), but most of it is paid for. It's really hard to compare console vs PC gaming, so I try and split them up.

The PC mod community spends a lot of time creating new maps, mods, and even total conversions for worthwhile games. So, it's easier to form a community around a game when new content is constantly being released at no charge. This also means much less money for the developer and publisher.

We can't play the extra 4 maps in CoD4 when Devon jumps on because he refuses to pay money for the maps. So, right there we either lose a player in our "community," or lose access to content when he's in our party.

From a software publisher's point of view though, they may as well not exist. Activision didn't try and market Call of Duty 4 to people still playing Counter-Strike, because anyone still playing Counter-Strike after all this time is a lost cause sales wise anyway.

True: but that was my point. This "hardcore" select group of gamers is worthless to most gaming devs, and yet they're some of the most vocal about being "passed over" in the latest generation of games. They don't fucking buy anything new and they bitch about devs not kissing their ass.

I don't know if you ever got involved in the CS community (I didn't, but I still caught the tail end of the drama) when valve released the market for weapons and price changes based upon demand. The backlash was insane, when they should have been happy valve was still wasting resources on a pre-2000 game.

But then if they buy a lot of games and spend a lot of time playing them, even if it's only one type of game, how "casual" are they really? They're clearly willing to invest a great deal of time and money into the hobby.

You could argue it either way. I still consider them more of a casual gamer probably due to my bias against console gaming in general, even though I've been buying them since the NES.

I'll taken some flak for this viewpoint before: but I don't consider CoD4 for 360 nearly the experience I could have if I had bought it for PC. But, none of my real life friends are PC gamers, so I bought it to kick back and bullshit with them while gaming. Console gaming by it's nature is far more casual than PC gaming. There's generally no hardware/software issues to work out. No real centralized community. No efficient way to deal with idiots (by banning, etc). And most console gamers never had to scour the Internet for a working 1.1.0.3 (I think) mirror for HL1 when they lost their copy.

Finding a good server in a PC game takes effort, but once that's done: keeping up with it is easy. You can find a community that mirrors your gaming values. New players to that community can be more easily integrated and problematic players removed and documented. If you want to do the legwork and get involved in a "hardcore" environment, it's a lot easier using a PC.

With a console setup, you're stuck with developing a friend's list and trying to setup private matches (if the game even allows it). Maintaining that and trimming fat is a much less centralized process. So, what you're generally stuck with is a more casual environment. I'm probably spoiled though being an admin for a TF2 server that mirrors my gaming desires. I didn't have to deal with many idiots for about 3 years up until I started gaming CoD4.

I guess what it really boils down to is your perception of "Hardcore." Just spending time and money isn't always the best qualifier. Even though I really never liked the term, I wouldn't even rate as it anymore (Just look at my Steam rating right now: 0.0 teh suck).

[Stark]

Since this situation was pretty predicatable, you'd think Nintendo would have planned ahead. Right back when the Wii was released I was talking about the hardware killing it, for being just TOO cheap, and I can't have been the only one.

The control thing is amusing, because launch titles used it fine. But there's no point making a shooter (or other regular genre game) when it has to look like complete shit with no post or AA or textures.

[CaptHawkeye]

I think people tend to misunderstand complaints from the community that too much effort is being placed in graphical boosts. While that's definantly true, nobody ever said that graphical development should be forgotten entirely. I mean, I think Silent Hunter 4's "lol nose hair graphics" are pretty excessive. Especially when compared with the clearly neglected game play. But just because I hate shit like that, doesn't mean I'm necessarily a fan of Destroyer Command's texture-less blanket ocean and tissue box ships.

[Guardsman Bass]

I thought that was more or less the whole point of the Wii from the very beginning - rather than chase after Microsoft and Sony in their never-ending race to see who can build the most powerful graphics and gaming engines, they'd try to hit a different market. It's no real surprise if most of the games they put out as a result of this are not exactly exciting to the 18-25 year old gamer demographic.

[weemadando]

I just love that the comic is pointing out what most of us know to the detriment of the foolish fanboys.

[Guardsman Bass]

I just love that the comic is pointing out what most of us know to the detriment of the foolish fanboys.

You could say, though, that it is kind of hypocritical on Nintendo's part, since they still depend on those fanboys to rush out and buy the new Zelda and Mario titles whenever they emerge.