(Dark Heresy) Bows better than crossbows at everything?

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-09-05 06:29am

Gentlemen, if you would turn to page 131 of your Dark Heresy rulebook, you will notice inscribed in the "Primitive weapons" section are the statistics for bows and crossbows. If one briefly compares the two, he will find that bows are superior in all respects. The crossbow has equal range, penetration (that is, none), damage, and just about everything. However, it takes ten times longer to load, weighs one more kilogram, and loses its cousin's reliable quality.

Is this just me or something? Is there supposed to be some advantage I'm not aware of? I am most bewildered.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-09-05 07:50am

Sounds like someone got lazy to me - as the owner of an actual crossbow I have say they have significantly more penetration power, and, with the proper head on the projectile, do much more damage. Also, once you load the thing you can hold it ready to fire without effort, whereas a bow required muscle power to remain drawn.

You're talking about a game, though - sounds like someone with no knowledge of real archery got lazy, only considered the negatives, and copied a damage table.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2008-09-05 11:04am

I wouldn't say it was necessarily laziness - Dark Heresy only includes these primitive things because they occasionally crop up in the odd scenario here and there. They are abstractions, and compared to the rest of the arsenal of firepower available (lasguns, grenade launchers, flamethrowers, etc) the difference between what a "bow" (bear in mind there are many variations of bows, which have all been squeezed in under one abstract representation) and a crossbow are capable of is too insignificant to warrant differentiation.

The combat system is not an archery simulator, it's a highly lethal, over the top system with a focus on the effects of automatic weapons.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-09-05 11:12am

Broomstick wrote:Sounds like someone got lazy to me - as the owner of an actual crossbow I have say they have significantly more penetration power, and, with the proper head on the projectile, do much more damage. Also, once you load the thing you can hold it ready to fire without effort, whereas a bow required muscle power to remain drawn.

Don't crossbows also require a decent amount of time to reload compared to your regular bow? Not something you want to worry about in a mass combat environment and easily the biggest downside to them that I can see.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-09-05 12:32pm

Yes, crossbows do take longer to re-load, and even early designs from centuries ago frequently incorporated a small winch.

The advantage was that when fired they were far more penetrating. In our world they are every bit as powerful as other hand-carried weaponry including firearms.

The English longbow approached crossbows in lethality, but required life-long dedication and training whereas relatively untrained peasants could easily learn to load and fire a crossbow of equal or greater power.

Crossbows can also fire a greater variety of projectiles as well, but that's probably getting way overboard for this discussion

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-09-05 12:42pm

Another thing about crossbows is that they can fire heavier projectiles which obviously do more damage when they slam into the enemy.

Sure they took a long time to reload, but they sure packed a lot more punch.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2008-09-05 12:49pm

In any case, these things are easily dealt with by the GM. IIRC Inquisitor's Handbook has a few bow variants, and different projectile types (such as bodkin arrows, or steampunk-ish explosive arrows or whatever) are easily drummed up and can be implemented with the current system painlessly.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2008-09-05 12:55pm

The bow and crossbow are general categories in DH, which makes them somewhat imperfect for a comparison when you think of the difference between a crude hunting bow and fancy modern compound bows. The Inquisitor's Handbook has a heavier crossbow that should suit your needs. The IH is really packed to the gills with cool shit.

Bluewolf · Post by **Bluewolf** » 2008-09-05 01:27pm

If I remember correctly, don't crossbows require less training then your standard bowman to be efficent with them? I recall hearing that you could arm far more people and train them quicker with crossbows then normal bows.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2008-09-05 01:28pm

Bluewolf wrote:If I remember correctly, don't crossbows require less training then your standard bowman to be efficent with them? I recall hearing that you could arm far more people and train them quicker with crossbows then normal bows.

Broomstick just stated that.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2008-09-05 02:16pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Bluewolf wrote:If I remember correctly, don't crossbows require less training then your standard bowman to be efficent with them? I recall hearing that you could arm far more people and train them quicker with crossbows then normal bows.
Broomstick just stated that.

of course in DH you could require the Bow to be an ADVANCED projectile skill, so unless you've spent the extra hundred XP to have BOW instead of say pistol slug thrower, as specialist skill your firing with half your primative projectile skill and can't even hit the broadside of a broadside with one if your more familiar with lasguns then you are with primative firearms.

however to note, if your party is facing Eldar Exodites, those wraithbone longbows take centuries to master, are of course armour piercing, longer ranged, and probably a few other things too.

That said, please don't tell Necronlord about that suggestion, I've already given him way too many ideas.