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Posted: **2009-01-18 10:11am**

Kotaku wrote:As has already been established, Nintendo is doing well for itself, shattering sales records in the United States with the Wii and Nintendo DS. And, according to Nintendo, it's 99% responsible for the industry's growth.

Nintendo highlighted that fact in its response to NPD sales data released yesterday, showing that Nintendo hardware sold more than 20 million units in the U.S. last year, with 132 million software units sold on the company's platforms. That's a considerable increase from the nearly 15 million consoles and portables it sold in 2007.

That increase in sales, Nintendo says, is 99% of the reason the video game industry saw revenues increase by $3.35 billion last year. That's a much smaller change than the game industry experienced from 2006 to 2007, we should note, 43% to 19% growth comparatively.

(The company included a handy — but visually ugly — pie chart to drive the point home, one that we tried to improve upon.)

With four of the best selling games in the U.S., according to the NPD Group, and the best-selling hardware by a large margin, we'd think it's pretty safe to say Nintendo is protecting the video game industry from succumbing to a terrible economy.

Will it be able to stave off an even worse 2009?

Seems like Nintendo is out-earning the credit crunch. Perhaps more importantly, a little over two years after its launch the Wii's sales are still going up - they shifted over ten million units last year. Not bad for a gimmicky kiddie console that is doomed to fail thanks to its stupid controls.

Posted: **2009-01-18 11:32am**

I hope it won't end like in the 80's, where Nintendo essentially gained total control of the market and acted like a god, whose opinion is the only truth in the world. (Be honest, do you want these times again?)

As for the Wii, despite the literal marketing avelache that went through the media, I can't see what makes it so special, apart from the gimmick-controller. But that's propably because I'm a hardcore PC-gamer and avoid gaming consoles like the palgue, so propably someone else can see that hidden value.

Posted: **2009-01-18 12:03pm**

This sounds like a load to me. Is Nintendo seriously saying that all the other companies ever out there only grew 35 million in revenue? I don't see the wii or it's games outselling it's competition by gigantic ratios. Or perhaps Nintendo is playing 'graph magic' by averaging a bunch of other companies, and leaving themselves out of the average?

Posted: **2009-01-18 02:56pm**

Tribun wrote:I hope it won't end like in the 80's, where Nintendo essentially gained total control of the market and acted like a god, whose opinion is the only truth in the world. (Be honest, do you want these times again?)

As for the Wii, despite the literal marketing avelache that went through the media, I can't see what makes it so special, apart from the gimmick-controller. But that's propably because I'm a hardcore PC-gamer and avoid gaming consoles like the palgue, so propably someone else can see that hidden value.

There's a handful of reasons the Wii's been doing so well, really.

1) - Casual appeal: Nintendo's never made any bones about targeting the casual gaming market. There's not a lot of titles for "hardcore" (lol) gamers, but considering its gotten even 50 year olds interested in gaming who never would have picked up a console in their life otherwise, well, it's not hard to see why.

2) - Price point: It's hands down the single most inexpensive console out of all the current generation, even with the 360's price drop. Throw in a unique, easy to use controller scheme that people are dying to try with some massive marketing campaigns and you've really got a proverbial killer app. The only thing keeping Nintendo from making even more money is they can't produce Wiis fast enough (supposedly).

Posted: **2009-01-18 03:37pm**

General Zod wrote: The only thing keeping Nintendo from making even more money is they can't produce Wiis fast enough (supposedly).

And Wii Fits... my girlfriend is dying to get one, but they're so sold out it isn't funny. That's because every housewife and every gaming child's mother wants a Wii Fit, or already got one for Christmas.

And yeah, while I'm a "serious gamer" (lol) myself, I still totally can see the appeal in the Wii. It's a fun console with a fun controller, it's totally different from sitting down and playing GTAIV or whatever, and that's why the Wii is so successfull. And it's perfect for people like my girlfriend, who like to game a bit now and then but are totally 'casual' about it.

There really is no conflict between the Wii and a gaming PC.

Posted: **2009-01-18 03:57pm**

Wait so the fact Guitar Hero(Three I think) selling one billion dollars worth of games "totally does not count seriously guys" on Nintendo part?

Seriously this is just Nintendo trying to steal headlines. And going from interest to fucking insane.

Posted: **2009-01-18 05:07pm**

Mr Bean wrote:Wait so the fact Guitar Hero(Three I think) selling one billion dollars worth of games "totally does not count seriously guys" on Nintendo part?

Nintendo is probably arguing those dollars don't count as growth dollars (presumably because so many Wii purchases are from greenfield markets)

Posted: **2009-01-18 05:37pm**

phongn wrote: Nintendo is probably arguing those dollars don't count as growth dollars (presumably because so many Wii purchases are from greenfield markets)

Despite the fact that Guitar Hero III apparently sold close on twenty million copies? Guess that was every single "established" video player out there.

Now look I'll give Nintendo some credit, by my caculations on the number of DS's sold in Japan alone it seems every single Japanese citizen(Living home and abroad) owns at least three DS's. They do crazy good hand held business each year, ever year. But seriously, come on Nintendo. Video games are a forty billion dollar market(And projected to hit sixty billion by 2011). You can't claim 99% of "new gamers", you can't claim 80%. Lets be nice and say you can claim half. Half would have been damn impressive a claim. But no, you had to go for the batshit crazy Romero style claim "Nintendo will make you it's bitch, all video game growth is because of Nintendo bow before our magnificence."

Minus the lack of grammar issues this press release reads like Nintendo hired Shroom to be their PR spokesperson. Sure Reggie is nuts, Nintendo's main PR guy for the Wii has always seemed to have a screw lose... but come on now!

Posted: **2009-01-18 05:58pm**

You can't claim 99% of "new gamers", you can't claim 80%. Lets be nice and say you can claim half. Half would have been damn impressive a claim. But no, you had to go for the batshit crazy Romero style claim "Nintendo will make you it's bitch, all video game growth is because of Nintendo bow before our magnificence."

But they're not claiming 99% of new gamers. They are simply stating that the industry as a whole grew $3.35b - with a few companies growing a lot and a lot of them losing revenue; that they themselves had an impressive $3.31b revenue increase; and that if Nintendo were to have fallen off the face of the Earth, the total revenue increase of the industry would have been a few measly million.

It doesn't measure new gamers directly, it just measures cash coming in. Admittedly they massaged the presentation a bit to get that badass piechart, but it's not factually wrong.

Posted: **2009-01-18 06:20pm**

I can definitely see the appeal of the Wii, although I still have yet to get one after my initial "Ooh, shiny and INNOVATIVE!" impression wore off and the lack of decent, lasting titles crept in. I do know plenty of people who have or would get a Wii who, ordinarily, wouldn't touch anything gaming related with a barge pole. Personally, I see the DS as the killer piece of kit for Ninty, as I have started rekindling my fondness for playing such original and damn addictive titles on it again. Maybe the numbers here are padded out to look better than they really are, though it's not that unbelievable to expect such massive growth has happened with titles like Wii Fit coming out.

Posted: **2009-01-18 07:07pm**

Bounty wrote:
But they're not claiming 99% of new gamers. They are simply stating that the industry as a whole grew $3.35b - with a few companies growing a lot and a lot of them losing revenue; that they themselves had an impressive $3.31b revenue increase; and that if Nintendo were to have fallen off the face of the Earth, the total revenue increase of the industry would have been a few measly million.

It doesn't measure new gamers directly, it just measures cash coming in. Admittedly they massaged the presentation a bit to get that bad ass pie chart, but it's not factually wrong.

What about World of Warcraft then? They "grew" the MMO market by two million subscribers which is over two hundred thousand of dollars in subscription fee's right there not even counting game sales(Which is 30$ a pop, plus expansions) which is another sixty million right there. Unless Nintendo wants to claim "WoW does not count" thats pretty much all of the "non Nintendo" growth right there.

Posted: **2009-01-18 07:10pm**

Mr Bean wrote: What about World of Warcraft then? They "grew" the MMO market by two million subscribers which is over two hundred thousand of dollars in subscription fee's right there not even counting game sales(Which is 30$ a pop, plus expansions) which is another sixty million right there. Unless Nintendo wants to claim "WoW does not count" thats pretty much all of the "non Nintendo" growth right there.

I think you flubbed your math there. Two million subscribers at $15/month comes out to around $30 million per month in subscription fees.

Posted: **2009-01-18 07:13pm**

The lie, of course, is that the pie chart is not supposed to be adding up to 100% in such a fashion when you have blockbusters like WoW, the Wii, etc. while many companies saw a revenue drop.

Posted: **2009-01-18 07:35pm**

General Zod wrote:

I think you flubbed your math there. Two million subscribers at $15/month comes out to around $30 million per month in subscription fees.

Now take 30 million and times it by 12 months. You get 360 million. They had eight million and a half million at the end of 2007 and are sitting on 11 and a quarter million today. Those are active subscribers I hasten to aid. Which means that Blizzard wears money hats 24/7 in the office. Why? Because they can afford to. I low-balled it deliberately by assuming only 12$ a month and only counting two million when it should be closer to three.

Posted: **2009-01-18 07:50pm**

You mean only the most inexpensive gaming consoles (Wii, DS) were recession proof in 2008? Clearly, Nintendo is a god.

Posted: **2009-01-18 07:54pm**

SPC Brungardt wrote:You mean only the most inexpensive gaming consoles (Wii, DS) were recession proof in 2008? Clearly, Nintendo is a god.

The consoles are cheap, the software is not. A brand new DS game can still cost £30 or whatever that is in American funny money now. Same with Wii, which is around the same cost of a PS3 or 360 title, except those really extortionate ones with a guaranteed fanbase to lap it up or a thrown in band/symphonic orchestra/figurine etc.

Posted: **2009-01-18 08:02pm**

Mr Bean wrote:Wait so the fact Guitar Hero(Three I think) selling one billion dollars worth of games "totally does not count seriously guys" on Nintendo part?

Seriously this is just Nintendo trying to steal headlines. And going from interest to fucking insane.

I imagine they are claiming all Wii versions of Guitar Hero (such as World Tour, which has sold extremely well on the Wii) as part of their side of the chart, just as any Wii or DS game sold do.

They aren't saying the Nintendo got all those revenues, but that they are in one way shape or form responsible for them. Much of the revenues went to the companies that made the DS or Wii games, who technically wouldn't be making any of that money if the DS or Wii weren't around. It's just a classic case of spinning the data in a way to make Nintendo look good.

Mr Bean wrote:What about World of Warcraft then? They "grew" the MMO market by two million subscribers which is over two hundred thousand of dollars in subscription fee's right there not even counting game sales(Which is 30$ a pop, plus expansions) which is another sixty million right there. Unless Nintendo wants to claim "WoW does not count" thats pretty much all of the "non Nintendo" growth right there.

They are responding specifically to the NPD numbers. NPD does not take into account PC game sales. They only look at consoles and handhelds.

Posted: **2009-01-18 08:05pm**

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
SPC Brungardt wrote:You mean only the most inexpensive gaming consoles (Wii, DS) were recession proof in 2008? Clearly, Nintendo is a god.
The consoles are cheap, the software is not. A brand new DS game can still cost £30 or whatever that is in American funny money now. Same with Wii, which is around the same cost of a PS3 or 360 title, except those really extortionate ones with a guaranteed fanbase to lap it up or a thrown in band/symphonic orchestra/figurine etc.

Well like so many things PAL you're just getting jobbed.

Walmart.com quickly shows me most Wii titles are about $50, if not cheaper. Only those with items (like Dance Dance Revolution, Guitar Hero and others) sold along with the game cost more. So in the US, that's $10 less than your average X360 / PS3 title, which are $60, with, of course, shovelware always being cheaper than this baseline. And really, how could they get away with that in the US market? It's the same hardware as the Gamecube! If they threw in a software surcharge without even upgrading the hardware, they would've suffered some negative PR.

Posted: **2009-01-18 08:13pm**

I said can. I didn't say they all were. Most DS titles are around $40, with the most expensive Wii ones being around $50-60, hardly a massive difference. But this is still around the same price ranges for the other console titles, or slightly cheaper, although you can pick up special offers or second hand games for half or a third of the original RRP.

At the end of the day, the developers still need a margin, and Ninty cutting back on making a superior piece of hardware doesn't change that a lot of effort needs to go into making even fairly basic games. The price difference certainly isn't as massive as with the consoles themselves.

Posted: **2009-01-18 08:32pm**

Not sure if we're even arguing over anything anymore, but I'm having trouble even finding DS titles over $35 USD. Many are only $20.
So there are actually DS titles over $60 equivalent in the UK?

Link, Mario v Sonic olympics, Clones Wars, Guitar Hero, Mario Kart, no top game on DS (again going by Walmart.com) is over $35.

£30 for a DS title? That's theft.

Posted: **2009-01-18 08:34pm**

SPC Brungardt wrote:Not sure if we're even arguing over anything anymore, but I'm having trouble even finding DS titles over $35 USD. Many are only $20.
So there are actually DS titles over $60 equivalent in the UK? Link, Mario v Sonic olympics, Clones Wars, Guitar Hero, Mario Kart, no top game on DS (again going by Walmart.com) is over $35.

£30 for a DS title? That's theft.

They must have lowered their price points lately. Used to be all the first tier DS titles would go for $39.99 new.

Posted: **2009-01-18 08:46pm**

General Zod wrote:
SPC Brungardt wrote:Not sure if we're even arguing over anything anymore, but I'm having trouble even finding DS titles over $35 USD. Many are only $20.
So there are actually DS titles over $60 equivalent in the UK? Link, Mario v Sonic olympics, Clones Wars, Guitar Hero, Mario Kart, no top game on DS (again going by Walmart.com) is over $35.

£30 for a DS title? That's theft.
They must have lowered their price points lately. Used to be all the first tier DS titles would go for $39.99 new.

That may be, I haven't kept track of these things over the years -- the last handheld I owned was a Gameboy Color and the last Nintendo system the N64.

Posted: **2009-01-19 02:01am**

Mr Bean wrote:
Bounty wrote:
But they're not claiming 99% of new gamers. They are simply stating that the industry as a whole grew $3.35b - with a few companies growing a lot and a lot of them losing revenue; that they themselves had an impressive $3.31b revenue increase; and that if Nintendo were to have fallen off the face of the Earth, the total revenue increase of the industry would have been a few measly million.

It doesn't measure new gamers directly, it just measures cash coming in. Admittedly they massaged the presentation a bit to get that bad ass pie chart, but it's not factually wrong.
What about World of Warcraft then? They "grew" the MMO market by two million subscribers which is over two hundred thousand of dollars in subscription fee's right there not even counting game sales(Which is 30$ a pop, plus expansions) which is another sixty million right there. Unless Nintendo wants to claim "WoW does not count" thats pretty much all of the "non Nintendo" growth right there.

I think you still don't understand how that chart works. Nintendo isn't saying they're the only ones with growth, they're saying that the sum total of revenue growth and shrinkage in 2008 adds up to just a few million $ more than their own revenue increase. Like I said before, you can make that pie chart for any successful company; theoretically you can even make a chart that states completely truthfully that company X is responsible for more than 100% of the industry's growth, assuming they had a >$3.5b revenue increase.

You make the mistake of thinking that those few million $ of growth for the industry sans Nintendo means there was no growth at all; in fact, it still allows individual companies to grow spectacularly, even moreso than Nintendo, but as long as that's offset by others losing revenue the chart still holds.

Posted: **2009-01-19 02:02am**

SPC Brungardt wrote: £30 for a DS title? That's theft.

UK prices for Nintendo (and all console) games are still a looooooot cheaper than Germany, to the point where ordering them from amazon.co.uk means raw PROFIT, especially considering the pretty good Euro <-> Pound exchange rate going on right now. For example, Force Unleashed costs £23.24 right now, which translates to ~ €26, which is less than half of the German price for that game that is around €60. Granted, the game is on sale there right now, but even the standard price of £39.99 would still be €15 cheaper.

So yeah, not PAL overall is being fucked, certain PAL countries are fucked more thorougly than others

Posted: **2009-01-19 07:56am**

Speaking for myself, the Wii I got (with Zaia) is the first console I've ever owned. I see myself as a PC gamer. The Wii does something my PC can't do (or perhaps more appropriately, not suited to do), which is more than I can say for basically any other console I've seen.

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