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I have been an avid D&Der for 30 some years (started with first edition, bought into second, 3ed and 3.5 editions...gave up on 4th but that's another story)...one of the people I game with wants to try out Star Wars Saga edition and I was wondering what everyone's opinion is?

I have read the main book and skimmed the Starships and Knights of the Old Republic expansion books...so far it looks like it could be interesting...but time it always comes down to time, in your opinion(s) is it worth the time to learn and play this game?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Considering it is more like D&D 3.75 with light sabers it depends on how much you bought into the d20 system and 4th edition mindset. It definitely plays much more streamlined from a GM perspective than the older editions and from the players perspective it is less management of different sub-rule systems.

having played SW rpg through all versions I still feel partial to d6 and SW miniatures battles (for all of the LOS and squad command rules) but from a space opera swashbuckling fun standpoint the new version makes it a lot easier to get the rules out of the way (to be honest I just house rule vehicle combat anyway, and publish a stat change list to the players before the campaign starts for various weapons and force powers) The only real warning I have is that force powers can be really wanky if a player dumps all feats into a few select powers. So it comes down to the main issue with any RPG, how good is the GM at making it interesting for the players.

I'm playing it, and liking it. The system is easy to learn and understand, the variety of feats and talents grant the players the ability to form characters to their liking as multiclassing is very easy and should be encouraged.

The warning about force powers I can support - one of my players used move object a lot, and that became overpowering very easily. The slicer droid is also very, very good at what he wants, I had to uprate some skill checks from becoming too easy for him. But Of course, every gaming system's rules can - and will - be abused interpreted creatively by the players .

evillejedi wrote:Considering it is more like D&D 3.75 with light sabers it depends on how much you bought into the d20 system and 4th edition mindset. It definitely plays much more streamlined from a GM perspective than the older editions and from the players perspective it is less management of different sub-rule systems.

Well I played and liked 3.0 and 3.5 (with house rules ). I have played 4.0 and it was okay but plays too much like a miniatures battle game and not enough like a traditional RPG for my taste (but that could just be the group I am gaming with right now...)

evillejedi wrote:having played SW RPG through all versions I still feel partial to d6 and SW miniatures battles (for all of the LOS and squad command rules) but from a space opera swashbuckling fun standpoint the new version makes it a lot easier to get the rules out of the way (to be honest I just house rule vehicle combat anyway, and publish a stat change list to the players before the campaign starts for various weapons and force powers) The only real warning I have is that force powers can be really wanky if a player dumps all feats into a few select powers. So it comes down to the main issue with any RPG, how good is the GM at making it interesting for the players.

I have not played any of the previous SW games but have played GURPS, Traveler (pre GURPS version), Shadow Run, D20 Modern and several other future/space opera type games. From what I can see the SW Saga rules seem to get out of the way and let the players do their thing - but that is just on reading it not on playing. Still have not had a chance to sit down to a session - Maybe this week!

Thanks for the feedback!

My group liked it. It plays like a streamlined 3.5 without going full bore into the "minatures game with some rpg elements" that 4th does.

I'm in a similiar boat as you, i've been playing RPGs for nigh on 30 years, including all editions of D&D (1-4e) and SW (d6 & d20), and I honestly do recommend SW Saga. I've dm'd it for the past 8 months and I really have enjoyed my time with it and I'm about to start a new story arc, but I've also been on the otherside of the screen as a player.

For books, I'd recommend these at the least.
1. Core book.
2. Threats of the Galaxy
3. Starships of the Galaxy

The rest are optional and with utility & quality varrying. I rate Clone Wars & Scum and Villainy as well worth getting, but Legacy Era sucked balls in my opinion. The KoTOR & Force Unleashed books were... meh.

As far as "what's allowed", I would highly recommend doing a flat "if it's in the corebook, its okay. Everything else requires prior DM approval" rule because some of the force powers are very dubious. For instance, in Clone Wars there is one for turning invisible and another for phasing through walls. For my group, I established a tacit understanding that for the force, we'd stick as close to the "feel" given in the movies as possible and it has worked out well.

The combat is frankly where the system totally sells itself to me. The Condition Track is just a great mechanic that allows you to get around the whole suspension of disbelief where people stand in the middle of combat just soaking up blaster bolts. i.e. hp = ducking/dodging/getting tired. condition = you're getting progressively hurt. Add on the things like parry/block with lightsabers is _MUCH_ better done as well.

The force powers can be _WAY_ over the top if you have a well built character or someone who min/maxes the hell out of it. I'd recommend an optional rule of the Force Training feat as something you can take only once at the start and then at the 3rd/6th/etc... levels until Jedi Knight. I know that seems arbitrary, but a Jedi with a high wisdom, skill focus use force, and force training x2 at level 3 will flat out dominate in fights. They are crazy over powered. Particularly since several skills both incapacitate AND damage (Force grip/Force Whirlwind) AND are sustainable from round to round. So a Jedi can, without a huge amount of difficulty, lock down a single bad guy for an entire fight. While not an issue with minions, if you are the "big bad guy" sort of DM, it could be annoying. Plus as mentioned previously, Move Object is sick if used by an intelligent player.

But all in all, I absolutely love the system. It's both simple and eligant. It's a very nice improvement over 3.xE and what 4e shoulda been if they'd have been smart. Instead they over sampled and turned 4e into WoW on a table top. So I really do highly recommend it.

One word of caution, and may be this is just me, but the combats require more thought and planning if you are going to really have fun with it. It's no longer just a charge in and hack orc. Now the bad guys need to use cover and maneuver and combats happen in 3 dimensions in it. In my last game, the PC's walked into an ambush with a sniper on a 5 story roof with tons of cover and ground support. It was messy until they wised up and started thinking in 3 dimensions too.

In the next one, we are going to explore the magical world of orbital fire support!

The space battles are SO MUCH better done than d20 SW. It too is simple and easy to do and the multiple roles on a ship gives everyone something to do. Plus it's not that lame ass totally abstract thing. It's not uber complex, but it doesn't need to be frankly.

Finally, and this is a PURELY subjective thing. At first when I was starting out, I approached it from the perspective of "this is a star wars game" and so I kept wanting to incorporate canon stuff. Then it finally clicked that "no, this is a sci-fi game" and things got a LOT more enjoyable for me.

Whoops, almost forgot this: It's the thread where about the best of the character generator spreadsheets is done. Threats to the Galaxy does a GREAT job, but the later editions of Ben's (1.29d) is really good and helpful for whipping out NPCs that are more combat optimized. It also really helps for players and their first character.

xammer99 wrote:I'm in a similiar boat as you, <snip great post>.

Wow thanks for the feedback! That was good information and exactly what I needed...now to go find a inexpensive copy of the books !

Happy to help man, and I hope you and your group enjoy the game as much as I have.

One other suggestion one of my players had early on (thankfully before I did it), don't work in the canonical characters of the Movies. It adds to much of a cheese factor. Which was a great thing for him to suggest to me since I had been intending to do some of that in the pre-clone wars era i run and it's what helped me turn the corner from it being a Star Wars game where I was trying to recreate the movies into a SciFi game that had staying power.

Off to G&C