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Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-13 03:41pm
by Wing Commander MAD
So its time I got a new video card, as DoWII can't be handled at even the lowest settings. Does anyone know of any particularry good cards around the $200.00 (US) mark. I currently have a Geforce 7800 GTX 512MB. I want to get something better, but dont really have a clue as to how the new naming sceme works for NVidia (I am completely clueless about ATI's). I need to check on my motherboard, though I know it is not PCI-E 2.0. I am running a AMD X2 4400+, with 2GB RAM, and XP. I will be upgrading to Vista soon as I just took advantage of Microsofts Ultimate Steal offer, so good DX10 performance would be welcome.

Seriously, as an aside does anyone know of any good online tutorials for building a PC from scratch, preferably with lots of pictures. I am very comfortable with the software side, but have only really ever replaced video/sound cards and RAM on the hardware side of things. I really would like to be able to build a new gaming rig myself and save money, also considering as of this coming Saturday I will be the holder of a BS in Computer Science, I really should know and be able to do this kind of thing :oops: . I am just currently kinda leary of dealing with the motherboard (particularly mounting the CPU).

Any advice or help would be appreciated.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-13 03:54pm
by Shinova
??? I have a weaker comp tha yours on all aspects and I can play Dow2 decently on low settings.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-13 04:07pm
by Wing Commander MAD
Interesting, as I keep getting a black screen with audio at what seems like every other loading mission loading screen (I'll have to look into drivers). Alternatively, I have a sneaking suspicion my motherboard is going bad, which may be the culprit. I still was planning on upgrading to a DX10 card regardless. My other questions still stand however.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-14 04:52pm
by charlemagne
Assembling a computer isn't hard, for one, there's illustrations and a kind of "tutorial" in the mainboard's manual and the manuals of other components, and second, there's not too many ways all the stuff can get connected, and it's all labeled anyways so it's pretty self-explanatory.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-14 05:42pm
by starslayer
For a new $200 video card, get a GTX 260 Core 216 or a Radeon HD 4870. Those have basically the same amount of horsepower, and neither will do you wrong. Both of those are PCI-E 2.0, so you need a new mobo anyways. If you must stick with DDR2 RAM, get a P45 board (ASUS' P5Q-E is pretty good) and a Core 2 Duo processor, otherwise go for Nehalem and DDR3.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-14 06:03pm
by Genii Lodus
I thought PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCI-E? I have an 8800GT which is PCI-E 2.0 but my motherboard is only regular PCI-E. Was it just the first batch of cards released around the same time as PCI-E 2 that support that feature.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-14 06:21pm
by Mr Bean
PCI-2.0 is backwards compatible. Be aware some video cards now require 2x 6 pin power connectors which your PS might not support without stealing some 4pin connectors.

Also I've seen 4890's for 220$ some places, shop around you might be able to swing a 210$ish Geforce 275 or ATI 4890 instead of the lower 260 and 4870.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-16 03:49am
by Edi
I have an ATI HD4870 (one of the first batches to come out) and it's been kick-ass. You can't go wrong with that or with a newer version, but you may need a bigger power supply as Bean said.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-21 01:37pm
by Wing Commander MAD
Thanks for the advice guys. Sorry, it took so long to respond the weekend was hectic. Anyway, several of you mentioned I might need to get a new power supply, are there any recommendations as far as what to look for in one other than proper wattage (I figure around a 800W-1000W one to be safe)?

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-21 02:17pm
by Ace Pace
Wing Commander MAD wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. Sorry, it took so long to respond the weekend was hectic. Anyway, several of you mentioned I might need to get a new power supply, are there any recommendations as far as what to look for in one other than proper wattage (I figure around a 800W-1000W one to be safe)?
Unholy jesus, what the fuck do you want an 800W power supply for? A quality 350W can cover you, to be on the safe side, a quality 500W. Good brands would be Antec, ThermalTake, Enermex, etc.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-21 02:19pm
by Mr Bean
800W?
Are your running more than six HD and three DVD's?
And SLI?
No?
Then 600 Watt MAX is fine
A big power hungry card like a 4870x2 will need a 600-700 Watt'er because it is two cards on one PCB. But otherwise if your going standard one video card... say three hard drive, two internal DVD's and an external, plus USB everything would be roughly 250 Watts, the other 300 is the Video card, and even Video cards only use up another 150-220. The reason to get an 800 Watt PS is if your running SLI, to get a 1000, if your running Tri-SLI or quad.

So a 550-600 is about where you want you PS to be at most.

*Edit
Ace as I mentioned in the post above, some video cards today will suck down close to 200 Watts, so a 350 will not cut it nowadays if you get any kind of serious high end video card. I have 3x Internal HD, 1 old CD Burner, 1 standard DVD player and one external DVD burner plus a Intel DuoCore chip. With a Nvidia 6200 in there I barely top 220 watts of usage, with my shinny new Geforce 275 in there, I sit firm at 320-390 in some games.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-21 02:23pm
by Ace Pace
None of those video cards should be what he's aiming at with his rig. So I decided to ignore that option.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-22 10:47am
by Wing Commander MAD
Thanks for the power supply info. I honestly doubt I will be going SLI, as I kept that option open when I got this, and really never could justify the performance gains for the cost. Unless something has changed dramatically, you were better off saving the money a second card would cost and just buying a new one in a year or two and get far better performance in the end.

Re: Time for A New Video Card, Looking for Advice

Posted: 2009-05-30 08:04pm
by Haruko
What gaming card should you get? I have one suggestion, but I will explain how I came to choose it.

I bought a budget gaming computer from Newegg for $500 <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6883229084>. It had 4GB of memory, an AMD Athlon X2 7750 (2.7GHz) processor, Windows Vista Home Premium x64, and an ATI Radeon HD 4550 512MB PCI Express Video Card.

The first thing I had to do was replace my power supply, a 580watt XION, which is considered "fifth tier," or the worst kind of PSU you can get, by those computer enthusiasts at EggXpert. You can find their list of "first tier" to "fifth tier" power supplies here: <http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx> According to the EggXpert forum moderator I spoke to when inquiring about whether my computer would support the video card I was planning to upgrade to, he said "There is more of a problem with the PSU that the PC came with not the motherboard. You need to upgrade the PSU to a tier 1 - 3 first." The reason, as explained in the page on power supply ratings I linked to, is that you want quality and stability. Tier two is recommended for people who want that quality and stability, but are not hardcore gamers and are on a budget.

As I was searching for a power supply, I noticed that Corsair was one of the companies with power supplies listed at tier two, which was significant since the researching I did at Newegg lead me to a Corsair power supply that I bookmarked for possible purchase since it seemed impressive but was just $100: the Corsair 550watt VX model. Before I decided to purchase this brand, however, there were other things I learned that influenced my decision. For example, I initially sought a model with 750watts, but as I searched Google I came across several forum posts where someone expressed the same concern as me (i.e., how to choose a power supply for a powerful but budget video card). Apparently, if you were going to be playing the latest games, but do not expect to go SLI and are not hardcore , 550watts is more than enough. What matters more than the actual wattage is the quality of the power supply, and that it at least meats the minimum wattage requirements and has enough amps on its 12V rail (easily checked on the specifications page of wherever you are purchasing the video card from).

Now, I am not an expert in computers, but I easily installing the power supply myself. It may seem daunting at first because there are so many power supply plugs to deal with, but as long as you label the plugs and take note of the number of pins and the look of each of them to determine where they belong, as long as you prepare by reading one or two guides on how to properly prepare and install, and as long as you keep some information on the installation process handy while you perform the actual work, you should be fine.

On a side note, I do not know about wrist straps, but besides "grounding" yourself by touching the power supply or other metal parts before messing with the insides of your computer, I also remember from my time repairing computers in a high school ROTC computer repair class, that you can use one hand to rub the top of your computer case with one hand as you work on your computer with another, and as long as you do that often you can use the two hands whenever you need to.

Also worth noting that those power supplies of good quality but for the budget have one downside: they are not "modular", which means that you do not get to just use the power supply plugs you want and keep the rest inside the box you got the power supply in, so you will have to take some time to hide the ones you don't need (a problem for those who have those older computer towers that don't have much room).

Anyways, equipped with my new power supply, but otherwise with all the same specs on my budget computer, here is the video card I chose: EVGA GTX260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16. It is designed for optimal performance on a PCI 2.0, but as someone already mentioned in this thread, it will work just fine on a PCI Express x16, and I can personally attest to that since I have that card working fine on a PCI Express x16.

Yeah, this card is not 1GB, but as any computer expert may tell you, the amount of memory is not everything. For example, I looked at the brand, memory interface, the customer choice awards given at Newegg,-- and yes, it is under $200.

It was all the more easy to figure out which power supply plugs to put on the video card, because the power supply labels the plugs "PCI-E". Installation was kind of annoying because the card is huge -- you know what, I will just quote what I said in my Newegg review:
Worked right out of the box. I have never even installed a video card before this one, but it did not require much know-how. In my case, I just unscrewed the bracket from the expansion bay, held up the PCI-E slot clip, and pulled out my Radeon card. Afterwards, I placed my old card into the plastic container that held my new card, clicked open a second expansion bay slot below where the bracket would actually place (to allow the card to align), removed the bracket cover (to allow the video card to vent), and held up the slot clip with one hand while using the other to push the card into the slot. There was a little hassle with getting PSU wiring out of the way, and fitting the card between the expansion bay and hard drive cage, but I got the card in in a minute or two.
What's more, here is what I added about the size of the card:
There has been a lot of talk about the enormous size of the graphics card (it is at least twice the length of the Radeon HD 4550 512MB video card that once powered my system), but not much information to help readers decide if it will fit their system. The EVGA website puts this card at 4.376in height x 10.5in length. To give you some perspective, this card just fit my Raidmax Sagitta II Gaming Case; i.e., one or two more inches and it would have come into conflict with the hard drive cage.

For further perspective, I have a GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD motherboard. My new video card completely covered the first PCI slot below it, and is touching the top (but is not over) the second PCI slot. The PCI-E x1 slot above it remains uncovered, too, obviously, as it is above the PCI-E x16 slot.
Another problem you may have with the video card is HEAT. Modern cards produce a lot of heat. Fortunately, my case came equipped with two 120mm fans, and I was able to buy another for the front. Additionally, I bought what is called a "PCI slot fan" to put next to the video card that draws in the hot air and releases it through the large vent that connects to two slots on the back of the computer. You can find plenty of those at Newegg, Amazon, or other online retailers.

Finally, all of the computer parts, including the video card, are running at normal to cool temperatures, and the video card gets to about 65-70C when playing the latest games, which is normal. I do not play much, but for the last few weeks I have had this set up (I bought my computer last month), I have already played Supreme Commander, Mirror's Edge, and World at War -- they all look beautiful.