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Well if you've not already heard the L4D demo has hit Steam for everyone a day or two ago and I've seen some people in the SD.Net group playing it online. Anyone have any comments on those who already bought the game or are thinking of buying the game? For me the Demo sold me on once again L4D not being worth 50$. When it's at 25.99$ or lower I'll pick it up but not until then. Consider I had the same policy for L4D one and it was still good fun when I got it.

On the one hand the new weapons are nice, but it's still a 50$ mod as aside from the AI director there's nothing I see in the demo that does not scream "amateur team". Yes now there is another skinned version of the shot-gun that handles differently in fact most of the guns have an alternate meaning you could find the good old L4D 1 model or a new L4D 2 model in the same spot. The demo has weapons everywhere but certain things are simply to go. I for example have already beaten the demo on expert with three idiot AI team-mates because the Guitar is Excalibur when it comes to hacking zombies apart. I only switched to my primary to deal with Chargers and Boomers. Heck I even beat up on the Tank with my guitar because he moves slow enough I could back peddle and whack him with the guitar. So yes on balance melee weapons at this point are unbalanced(And watching arms go flying when you hit them with a frying pan is always fun if immersion breaking).

On the weapons, I've seen the AK, the original m16, a new knock assault rifle with a sixty round clip and stuck in three shot mode. An "old time" shotgun which had worse spread but seemed to reload faster. The combat shotgun which reloads much quicker than the standard but has less spread. The silenced Uzi (Which only feature seems to be I could walk behind the witch firing into the air with it and not attract her notice while even a pistol shot would set her off). the old Uzi. Plus the two new hunting rifles a reskin of the old a newer 30 round(Like a M-14 knock-off) rifle and of course the magnum which is wonderful as it's inaccurate but pops down standard infected with one shot. Also Boomer bile in handy flask form. Only use I've had is to use it to distract the horde(Which it will do for about ten full seconds) or to soak the tank and watch the standard infected beat on him(They don't last long).

Onto the infected themselves, they have far improved the infected damage models, I've seem them with entire arms blown off and kept coming or giant holes where their guts used to be. All in all they simply die better. Also spotted a female boomer(It will haunt my dreams) but no alt-female smokers, tanks or chargers nor hunters. But I've only run across one or two hunters so far. The spitter is more annoying than threatening except I believe during finales when she will turn deadly by spitting on ammo or turrets and the like but no such locations in the demo so don't know. The charger goes down quick but since he's a reverse hunter(It's a bad.. bad thing to watch him flash by after grabbing someone and booked it down the street to start smashing him)

Anyone else share their opinions on the demo and eventual game?

I think the level design is actually worse (I almost died because none of my AI teamates would go and push a button, at the alarm) and the atmosphere is too as well. In the original L4D, you at least had the impression that you were really the last survivors, all alone and surrounded by zombies.
Now, it feels like a casual run trough a sunny day, killing zombies by the dozen.

The weapons feel worse: the assault rifle is more inaccurate (hah hah, ak47-m16 [insert ye oldie armchair-weapons-expert related bullshit meme here] roflol lmao) and so are the shotguns. There are no real new weapons, merely slight modifications to the old one. At least it doesn't feel new, except perhaps for the grenade launcher that is not in the game.

The melee weapons do relive a significant stress from the game when coming around zombies. You are no longer afraid to come them head-on. In fact, I liked to rush head-on while pumped up on adrenaline during the alarm sequence.

The only real improvement I see in the zombies is ragdoll physics. Fancy, but that's it.

The game feels like something that the fanboy modders made, rather than a professional team. Add-ons and small changes that may or may not work, but no real substantial difference between it and L4D. Did even the same team make the game?

Zixinus wrote: The game feels like something that the fanboy modders made, rather than a professional team. Add-ons and small changes that may or may not work, but no real substantial difference between it and L4D. Did even the same team make the game?

I played the demo yesterday and mostly got the same impression. It feels a lot like the original game except with a few tweeks, new character skins and an even 'brighter' atmosphere. As much as I consider the original an HL mod it just stands out a lot more in this one. The level design was pretty bland and uninteresting to boot.

I enjoyed playing the original Left 4 Dead and was cautiously optimistic about L4D2 as I usually am, since all things being equal, it should be better, more complex, and more fun. But after seeing the gameplay videos I'm just not feeling it as much, and I have a lot less natural affection for their cast of heroes than I did for the original squad. Once I get to hear them banter, maybe, but right now I can't say I like their look.

I'm also shocked and saddened to have fallen into the "daytime = bad" crowd when it comes to this game. Many classic zombie movies took place during the day and managed it just fine, but for some reason these environments don't feel believable or proper for the hordes, and it doesn't look good. Maybe the gameplay vids I've seen are on low quality or something, but it looks cheaper, less interesting, and less 'lived in' than the L4D1 maps were. I'm opposed to the inclusion of melee weapons except as disposable backups, not as zombie mashing weapons of choice, so that aggravates me a bit. I don't really mind the Louisiana environment too much, but I would have preferred it as a L4D1 Expansion Pack. If I get L4D2, I'm really gonna miss the original 4 and the original maps.

I'm upset because I had wanted to buy this, but now I don't know if I really feel up to it. I think they should have listened more to those early aesthetic criticisms... they seem to have been borne out.

It's a shame because here we are one year later and there are several very good fan made L4D campaigns out there. Death Row & Suicide Blitz for example could with a bit of tweaking be expansion worthy campaigns that were fan made(Just add in map specific banter, clean up the equipment spawns and they would be good to go) while Death Abroad & Vienna Calling just need map specific banter added in to become official they are that good. But let me take a moment to give a shout out to Night Terror which is really five separate maps packaged into one. The first is a 28 days later inspired romp through a mansion which is quite good, but then it out-does itself with the 2nd level being a re-creation of the Haunted House attraction from Disneyland(Now with zombies! ... More zombies!) the third and fourth levels are the weakest(One is a LOTR Mines of Mordain copy, the other an Indian Jones style temple run) but finish out with style on a Evil Dead Woods run followed up by fighting things off in the House from Evil Dead 1&2 which is great fun.

Great, great stuff, free mod things available for download. Which again makes me wish L4D2 was another year off I'd rather see a release of the game, then a four campaign expansion at the year 1 mark along with a dozen new survival maps then L4D2 next year. This is not Madden you can't get by with re-skinning the game adding a few touches and releasing a map-pack.

I'd agree. The problems that L4D present are not insurmountable, so this would have been better (for us) as an expansion pack with more characters, weapons, and gameplay tweaks. I understand they want to make money, and release a game they feel is 'whole' and new, but I have fondness for the original and am not being grabbed by the sequel.

While it's pretty dumb to pine for the old cast (even though, I gotta say, I just don't really like this new cast half as much and it does impact my interest) I'm also very displeased with the new ammo. Flaming shotgun shells, exploding bullets, c'mon now. That's really not necessary. We don't need all those guns unless they're just a mid-step between the shitty guns and the good guns. And the idea of shooting flaming shotgun shells to set zombies on fire just makes me bang my head on the table. Setting aside realism at all, why do I want to do that? Normal shells kills zombies--so making them burn slowly is less desirable than that. Unless these zombies are afraid of fire, and actively avoid it, and would then scatter away from the flaming ones, then I don't see the value. And no, they aren't afraid of fire.

And the melee weapons are just a bad idea. A pistol shot will kill a zombie if you hit it in the head, so who needs an axe, frying pan, or guitar? The chainsaw, okay, that's a classic zombie-killing engine of destruction. Plus, it runs on gasoline, which is great. They should have made gasoline into a resource you want to lug around--to power vehicles and machinery, to blow up zombies, to refill/spawn molotov cocktails, or to fuel your chainsaw. That woulda' been smart, and I just came up with it right now. Honestly, maybe they did that and I'll be pleasantly surprised, but from the videos I've seen the melee weapons seem like a terrible idea. The best use for them would have been dismantling barriers the same way zombies do--and then making some alternative paths (locked doors, barriers that failed their survivors, etc) get torn up best by an axe or chainsaw.

Eh. So I don't know. I'm still going to wait and see. I wish they would release some more traditional zombie levels for me to view, I'm not interested in this daytime level they keep showing, it just looks too bland and clean--which is really confusing for a zombie game.

Honestly, L4D2 isn't looking to be anything other than a "Milk the Fanbase" sequel. With Steam's DLC support now existent, they might start even adding small things for a fee.

It's actually hilarious to look at their Oboards. Any legitimate complaint is drowned in a sea of fanboys scrambling over each other to be the first to say, effectively, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Hell, the -most- persuasive thing I've heard about getting the game is they're offering Bill's hat for your TF2 account if you preorder on Steam... An $50 for a digital hat, for a game I play maybe once a month now, is -not- a selling point.

Other than that, it really does seem like an expansion they're charging full admission for.

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:Honestly, L4D2 isn't looking to be anything other than a "Milk the Fanbase" sequel. With Steam's DLC support now existent, they might start even adding small things for a fee.

It's actually hilarious to look at their Oboards. Any legitimate complaint is drowned in a sea of fanboys scrambling over each other to be the first to say, effectively, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Hell, the -most- persuasive thing I've heard about getting the game is they're offering Bill's hat for your TF2 account if you preorder on Steam... An $50 for a digital hat, for a game I play maybe once a month now, is -not- a selling point.

Other than that, it really does seem like an expansion they're charging full admission for.

For a second I thought you meant a physical copy of Bill's hat, which mighta' been cool. But a digital copy? Eh.

I like the Coach okay so far, but I'm disinclined towards the redneck mechanic (Francis was white trash with a lot more character), I don't like the Elvis Impersonator much so far, or whatever the hell he's supposed to be. I don't get the female character either. Zoey wasn't terribly interesting, but this new girl just seems real... meh. A pink shirt? That's all? They changed her look like 5 times and it just got real bland. Her 'sassy' attitude just seems like too much southern-style attitude, but oh well, they had a LONG time to perfect the original L4D crew, it's not surprising these are a bit less solid. Shoulda' gone with a grimed-up female mechanic instead of her or that redneck!

I got L4D the original just like over a month ago when they had the offer 4 copies = 45€. Now I play it like 4 nights a week with my friends.

I just tried out the demo of L4D2 and WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT!!

First of all, the weapons are messed up it's like you aim but the things aren't accurate. I hate it.
Melee weapons I didn't try against the tank, but I don't like them instead of my pistols. It would have been great as a third weapon.
1st your big weapon, 2nd your pistols, 3rd your melee weapon and maybe if you want also have limited ammo for the pistols so that it would make sense to carry melee weapons around. Getting so close and personal in Expert or Advanced at least in the original it would have been bad, because they are going to hit you and you are going to be losing HP constantly. The adrenalin i haven't tried out yet. But all the weapons are a big minus in my book, they made them worse. I don't care that much for variety, in the original L4D it never bothered me.
Characters: Meh, doesn't really bother me. Of course I like the original group better, but with time I think you would also get to like them.
Setting: Daylight isn't a dealbreaker for me but that doesn't mean I love it.

It's like some of you already said, it feels cheaper than L4D, not so polished. I would never ever pay 50$ for this. Thank god too, because I was afraid I was going to like it so much that having bought the first L4D a month ago would have been a mistake. Now I think I won't buy this till it hits the 10-15€ mark and maybe not even then if they don't fix the weapons. It does really bother me.

I've found out that I can get L4D on 360 for $10. Going by the reactions to L4D2, is it worth it? Is the community of L4D players likely to continue to exist?

Stark wrote:I've found out that I can get L4D on 360 for $10. Going by the reactions to L4D2, is it worth it? Is the community of L4D players likely to continue to exist?

Without the fan made addon's for the PC version? Probably not. There are at present ten good fan made campaigns each about forty minutes to an hour long and full of decent to above average content. The 360 has the original four plus crash course? Yeah it's not going to last for much outside another year and with L4D2 about to hit I can see the L4D 360 community dieing away if they decided to support THIS game instead of making L4D3.

Stark wrote:I've found out that I can get L4D on 360 for $10. Going by the reactions to L4D2, is it worth it? Is the community of L4D players likely to continue to exist?

For $10? Sure, why not. I suspect there's going to be a number of L4D players who won't be getting 2 out of some sense that they're getting screwed over by a sequel this soon, so I'd be willing to bet that there's going to be a fair amount of players left for awhile.

I wouldn't be keen on getting the 360 version - I've no idea if Microsoft is nickel-and-diming extra content (what little there is) like they did with the TF2 stuff. You also can't get in on the PC game's player made campaigns. Most are rubbish, sure, but there are decent ones.

I expect that a L4D1 PC community will survive for the same reasons as a 360 one as given by Zod.

That assumes, of course, that you can get a deal on the PC version.

My demo impressions:

The weapons variety is nice, even if it's mostly just side steps instead of actual new stuff to play around with. The pistols are immensely better, there's an assault rifle for a variety of tastes, and the shotguns actually stand a decent chance of running out of ammo - combine this with a slower reload rate on the autoshotguns, and you've got a bit better weapons balance. The marksman rifles seem much improved - you can actually move while shooting semi-effectively. Melee weapons are the new shove - broken. A standard horde stands no chance against a player sitting in a corner and spamming mouse 1, which is lucky for him, since the versus shove cool-off is now in campaign mode, too.

The new infected seem nice - Jockey plays a role a lot like the Smoker, only he seems (on my impression) to be less shit. Charger can really come at you fast, and his ability to carry people off in a charge will probably be devastating in any open area. Playing around in a spitter's acid will destroy your health.

The new characters are okay, from what little I've heard of their banter so far. They all seem to have mannerisms or personality quirks - Coach reads any sign he sees - save Rochelle. Valve seems to have made a concentrated effort to make "Chocolate helicopter" the replacement meme for "Pills here," and it seems to be working.

The day setting gives me mixed feelings. It damages the atmosphere the first game's night environments establish, but it's easier to get cocky, wander off, and get the team in trouble as a result. Either way, not all of the campaigns are going to be daytime stuff.

The new medical equipment is interesting. Adrenaline seems well-suited for finale dash-for-the-escape shit, for example. Boomer bile is mostly just funny - kind of a comprimise between molotovs (for stuff like the tank) and the pipe bomb. I wanna experiment with just how much damage a horde does to a tank. The use of the defibrillator is self-evident and encourages team tactics, since it replaces a medkit.

The censoring is quite bad on my version. Instead of very much happening when you kill someone, the body fades away rather quickly, which is somewhat odd.

I'm not entirely sure why the OFLC made such a fuss about this. 28 Weeks Later was only MA15+, and this looks like it could be rated PG.