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So, ME2 coming out in late January. The latest trailer can be found here:




Who's buying it? What do you make of it?

I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not going to have better combat, far stupider characters and trademark Bioware pretentious and vacuous storytelling. Nothing I've seen focuses on new features or elements of fun; it's just OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME CHECK OUT THAT EXPLOSION Bioware standard garbage. The hilarity of redesigning the Normandy's interior and replacing load elevators with static load screens aside, it looks like I'll be looking for the 'skip stupid dumb crap' button to get back to the combat. Does anyone know if, now that the universe is 'set up', they'll actually do interesting things with it? Dragon Age is a great step from normal Bioware 'games' in that regard.

But hey, it might have an inventory system from the 21st century at launch this time. Fucking Bioware. I wonder if they'll totally fuck up the cutscenes again and have to say that no, really, missiles don't work in Mass Effect. Honest!

They've shown they aren't afraid of butchering canon for gameplay convenience. They realized that waiting for your gun to cool down instead of reloading sucks, so now all guns share universal ammunition except for the heavy weapons. Oh I'm sorry, it's not ammunition, it's "thermal clips". It just so happens that it has an ammo counter for how long until the weapon overheats, and sitting there to let it cool doesn't make it go up. You just have to relo- sorry, swap heatsinks.

I wonder if they'll try to handwave this away as some kind of totally universal military change that swept the galaxy between the two games. Because there was an entry explaining why guns didn't use ammunition anymore in the first game's codex.

And besides, how could you not want this after you found out that it has Future Blouses and Space Furniture?

ESRB Ratings board wrote:Players can also choose to have 'romantic encounters' with the alien/human henchmen characters; this involves watching a guided cutscene in which two characters flirt, kiss, and/or embrace: clothed alien/human characters may prop a partner on top of a space console, clear away the clutter from a bed-slab, unzip a future-blouse, or just talk it out. Though an alien/human may gyrate her hips while on top (fleeting-one-to-two seconds), actual sex is never depicted-the camera cuts away to space furniture and ceilings.

I can't wait to get it.

Stark wrote:I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not going to have better combat

I have. Pretty much every 'class introduction' video more or less shows that combat is much tigher, the classes are more interesting/differentiated and that skills are more useful/more intuitive to use. Gun specialties are more or less gone so it's less Fallouty 'level five assault rifles' and more 'Gears + magic'. Ultimately it's going to still be a Bioware game but the level of polish is obviously higher in the actual gameplay videos.

And your boss is Martin Sheen. It's the West Wing, in space! Also Shepard has a staring contest with a Turian and it's hilarious.

I guess that's why I said it's going to have better combat but still be a Bioware game? The combat looks better - although to be honest I think changing back to mag-based reloading is just pandering - everything else looks just as bad or worse (like the move towards dating simulator, arguably inevitable given their target market). It's doubtless going to be a better game, but that's not saying much when ME was such a horrible RPG with fun combat glued on. It's funny that Bioware can learn lessons if enough people laugh at them for sucking so hard (as with inventory, stupid minigames, classes, Gun Mark 5, etc) but can't change their style of storytelling away from vapid and bombastic.

The way they spin 'we use loading screens' as an improvement (and originally broadcast their amazing new method of dealing with content loads) just says it all about Bioware. If the loading business is similar to Dragon Age it'll just be sadder they fucked it up so bad in ME.

Combat wasn't even that great in ME1. Tbh I think ME1 was pretty weak all round, but critics still gushed with praise for it. Despite not enjoying it all that much, I still finished it 2.5 times. I'm not really sure why. I'll play through the second and see how it goes regardless.

The combat was easily the best part of the game; it certainly beat the generic story, crap villain and repetitive level design. You could do some pretty cool things with your team, which probably led to the Dragon Age MMO-lite system.

Stark wrote:The way they spin 'we use loading screens' as an improvement (and originally broadcast their amazing new method of dealing with content loads) just says it all about Bioware.

I take your point, and I will miss Wrex trolling people in elevators. In any case, I'm actually largely impressed by what I've seen for ME2. Admittedly I was largely impressed by what I saw for ME but I wasn't exactly sceptical back then as a rule. I'm pretty certain that the plot is going to be more ME silliness, and probably quite juvenile given the 'darker' tone they're aiming for. it's also kind of mixed because while ME had some pretty interesting stuff in it regarding decision making as an act, right and wrong, your position relative to greater society etc, but the resolution of a lot of the issues was weak (we've been over the egregious handling of Wrex's character arc). So their willingness to do something darker is somewhat encouraging, because it means they might actually aim for 'braver' outcomes. I hear Dragon Age is pretty brave when it comes to its writing, but I haven't played it. At the very least, the set-up of ME2 is a lot more interesting and conflicted, but even ME had an interesting setting which they failed to capitalise on.

Anyway all I know for certain is that kung-fu fishman Thane is well sexy and I won't have anything bad said about him.

I found my teammates thoroughly useless, except when I was micromanaging their abilities. Having soldier teammates was a joke, imo. Story wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but it was far from awful. By videogame standards it was very above average (which is a reflection on how bad it is in general, I suppose). Repetitive level design I'll definitely grant you, and crap villain.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the explanation I got for the reapers - they come out every 50,000 years and kill organic life. For some reason. I lol'd pretty hard when I read through the Mass Effect wiki, and it calls the Reaper's plan "ingenious". No it's not. If the explanation for their cullings is something like creative sterility I'll facepalm.

ME had some pretty interesting stuff in it regarding decision making as an act, right and wrong, your position relative to greater society etc

I was pretty disappointed by the Paragon / Renegade system actually. Particularly the "kill Rachni yes/no?" decision. They assured us it wasn't just "good guy points" vs "bad guy points" in the interviews, Paragon was supposed to be playing by the rules and renegade was supposed to be bending them. Since I was doing a paragon run my first time through, I killed them, thinking that since that's what you would do if you were playing by the rules - the council drove them to extinction, after all, and would naturally want them suppressed again. But of course, I get renegade points for doing that. That's when I realized it really was just light-side / dark-side.

That's really the opposite of what I anticipate; I figure by going for 'dark' (ie, character with tattoos OMG AWESOME) they're just going to fail dramatically like they did in ME1, but instead of looking like an honest effort it'll be obvious nerd-pandering. Maybe we'll be surprised, maybe it won't be stupid 'dilemnas' that go nowhere in another soulless prefab corridor.

But yeah, Thane is an automatic 70%+ for the game.

EDIT - the Reaper's plan IS ingenious, because it relies on their victims being amazingly stupid and yet ALWAYS WORKS.

I'm shocked that anybody could find Subject Zero attractive, but you know, different strokes for different blokes.

Thane? I'll probably play my game with him + the human chick, since iirc she's got the "can unlock doors" ability (the only reason I drag tech people around with me), I hate tali intensely, I play soldier and I don't think Garrus is returning as a squadmate.

Ghetto edit:

Forgot to ask, which save will you import? I'll be doing a run through sometime after Christmas when I've got a bit of free time to make the decisions I want to carry over. Wrex surviving obviously, because I liked him. Unsure about the Rachni. Will let council die, because apparently that's the default story if you don't import a save, and it seems more interesting than the preserved Status Quo.

adam_grif wrote:I was pretty underwhelmed by the explanation I got for the reapers - they come out every 50,000 years and kill organic life. For some reason. I lol'd pretty hard when I read through the Mass Effect wiki, and it calls the Reaper's plan "ingenious". No it's not. If the explanation for their cullings is something like creative sterility I'll facepalm.

When they say 'ingenious' they're probably referring to how the Reapers set up the galaxy with regards to the Citadel, mass relays and so on, as opposed to their nebulous motivations. I actually think that the sociological engineering stuff is relatively clever and the twist that the benevolent precursor artefact were actually a gigantic trap was pretty fresh; especially having come off Halo's generic treatment of the 'ancient precursor' crap. In execution it's pretty lacking, especially when it comes to the Conduit, and you're pretty much stuck with this dogmatic silliness about living on the Citadel and not investigating, but Bioware mishandling a good idea isn't exactly news.

Also Sovereign is hilarious. His dialogue comes off as being the writers not having a clue what the Reapers actually want. Also I don't really like his design it is superior in my fanfic. The plot in ME2 is more or less driven by Reaper silliness all over again so Ic an pretty much be assured that it will be pretty terrible.

I was pretty disappointed by the Paragon / Renegade system actually. Particularly the "kill Rachni yes/no?" decision. They assured us it wasn't just "good guy points" vs "bad guy points" in the interviews, Paragon was supposed to be playing by the rules and renegade was supposed to be bending them. Since I was doing a paragon run my first time through, I killed them, thinking that since that's what you would do if you were playing by the rules - the council drove them to extinction, after all, and would naturally want them suppressed again. But of course, I get renegade points for doing that. That's when I realized it really was just light-side / dark-side.

The stupid paragon/renegade stuff has been covered many times, though in retrospect I'm not sure why we were surprised (well, some us weren't because it's Bioware, but Iw ans't one of them ). It's called Paragon/Renegade - just from the name it's obviously going to be good guy versus bad (though there are rare occassions when it's used in a pretty grey way). I personally like to tihnk of it as Multiculturalist/Punching, though.

Forgot to ask, which save will you import?

I only have one, which is basically pro-alien Paragon dude who installs Anderson on the Council. I started a new character today called Rock Shepard who I intended to be largely the opposite, but I can't really gather the motivation for more than one playthrough (unlike Stark lol).

All my old 360 saves ran away with this guys 360 I played it on, so I have no choice but to do another play-through if I want to import a save. I think the only way I'll be able to get through it all is the occasional joy of using Intimidate, which is always more amusing than the Charm option.

Also Sovereign is hilarious. His dialogue comes off as being the writers not having a clue what the Reapers actually want. Also I don't really like his design it is superior in my fanfic. The plot in ME2 is more or less driven by Reaper silliness all over again so Ic an pretty much be assured that it will be pretty terrible.

That'd be the impression I got from it too. They really strike me as a poor man's Inhibitors. Only I bet the explanation for their behavior will end up being even sillier.

though in retrospect I'm not sure why we were surprised

When I played ME, the only Bioware game I'd ever played was Baldur's Gate 2, which I liked as a youngin'.

So far ME2 looks to be DARKER MEANER GRITTIER Mass Effect, with more pew-pew. Nothing more then I expected.

"Reloading" aka swapping out heatsinks, allows you to shoot quicker than having to wait for like seven seconds for your gun to cool down. I don't see how that isn't an improvement on combat.

adam_grif wrote:
I was pretty underwhelmed by the explanation I got for the reapers - they come out every 50,000 years and kill organic life. For some reason. I lol'd pretty hard when I read through the Mass Effect wiki, and it calls the Reaper's plan "ingenious". No it's not. If the explanation for their cullings is something like creative sterility I'll facepalm.

I really liked how the developers literally gave away the whole story in the MANUAL and development videos. Because BioWare feels some compulsive need to BRAG about how awesome they think the writing is. So awesome they had to give away the whole plot during development. So that when all the "twists" in the story come, the audience doesn't really feel surprise as much as it feels like Sheppard and Co are a bunch of retards. Mindlessly leaping through one cutscene after another only to discover that... *gasp* the color of the sky...it's...it's BLUE!

But here's some 'blam blam' generic action sequences broken by poor AI and shit level design.

I still laugh whenever Stark brings up the sequence with the Sheriff at the dock going "no weapons here"...and you have to do what she says. Because even the Renegade option was "be rude".

I'm getting it because I enjoy things other people hate, and because the visual style of the Mass Effect universe really floats my (white and red, organically curved shield generating techno-)boat. Even though I acknowledge all of it's problems on an intellectual level, I enjoy the damn game too much to notice when I'm playing, and would personally shell out full coin just to drive around the alien landscapes they craft as an art piece.

Stark wrote:That's really the opposite of what I anticipate; I figure by going for 'dark' (ie, character with tattoos OMG AWESOME) they're just going to fail dramatically like they did in ME1, but instead of looking like an honest effort it'll be obvious nerd-pandering. Maybe we'll be surprised, maybe it won't be stupid 'dilemnas' that go nowhere in another soulless prefab corridor.

How'd you sneak this one in without me noticing? I certainly understand that position, as I used to hold it myself before I got caught up in the hype. Subject Zero is easily the weakest thing about ME2 (apart from it being a Bioware game lol), for example, because she's so obviously on the 'juvenile' end of the spectrum. Near neaked, 'edgy' dialogue, tats and so on; from that point I was expecting the other characters to be cut from the same cloth, but I was pleasantly surprised. Amusingly, Samara does every Subject Zero does (super powerful biotic, fanservice) better with the added bonus of being a potential vessel for showing what Shepard's decisions actually mean. It's probably a bit silly of me to expect that they'll follow through on this, but I can dream.

But yeah, Thane is an automatic 70%+ for the game.

Can you believe that they have a murderous robot character who isn't as lame as HK-47? The mind boggles.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:"Reloading" aka swapping out heatsinks, allows you to shoot quicker than having to wait for like seven seconds for your gun to cool down. I don't see how that isn't an improvement on combat.

It's an 'improvement' if you are an idiot who can't learn. I rarely overheated my guns because I knew what the little bar meant, so I never had to wait 'like seven seconds' for anything. New, nonstandard mechanic = confuses idiot players = is reverted to bog-standard. That isn't an 'improvement', it's a step backwards from difference to blandness.

Every FPS with overheating pulse rifles or machineguns would obviously be improved by removing that, right? Wrong.

I'll almost certainly import my first character who saved the world (and everyone in it) while being as rude as the fat writers in Bioware let you. A harmless joke at someone else's expense as part of a normal relationship? +10 renegade!

Man, that trailer was...horrible. Could it have been any more generic? Trailers for seasonal romantic comedies are more interesting than that nowadays. Sheesh.

adam_grif wrote:They've shown they aren't afraid of butchering canon for gameplay convenience. They realized that waiting for your gun to cool down instead of reloading sucks, so now all guns share universal ammunition except for the heavy weapons. Oh I'm sorry, it's not ammunition, it's "thermal clips". It just so happens that it has an ammo counter for how long until the weapon overheats, and sitting there to let it cool doesn't make it go up. You just have to relo- sorry, swap heatsinks.

I wonder if they'll try to handwave this away as some kind of totally universal military change that swept the galaxy between the two games. Because there was an entry explaining why guns didn't use ammunition anymore in the first game's codex.

They went with the heaksink specifically because they'd written that guns almost never run out of bullets into the canon already.

SylasGaunt wrote:

adam_grif wrote:They've shown they aren't afraid of butchering canon for gameplay convenience. They realized that waiting for your gun to cool down instead of reloading sucks, so now all guns share universal ammunition except for the heavy weapons. Oh I'm sorry, it's not ammunition, it's "thermal clips". It just so happens that it has an ammo counter for how long until the weapon overheats, and sitting there to let it cool doesn't make it go up. You just have to relo- sorry, swap heatsinks.

I wonder if they'll try to handwave this away as some kind of totally universal military change that swept the galaxy between the two games. Because there was an entry explaining why guns didn't use ammunition anymore in the first game's codex.

They went with the heaksink specifically because they'd written that guns almost never run out of bullets into the canon already.

I know. Except that your in game ammo doesn't recharge while you're idly sitting there doing nothing - you have to reload. It's thermal regulation in name only. If it was an option to keep up the fire, but you could still just wait for it to cool conventionally, it would be a cool little addition. But it's just ammo.

Stofsk wrote:I can't wait to get it.

Ditto, I enjoyed the first one immensely mostly for the combat and driving around the rover. I pretty much ignored the story, I do hope that they have improved the cover system though. I found that rather awkward in the first one.

It's an 'improvement' if you are an idiot who can't learn. I rarely overheated my guns because I knew what the little bar meant, so I never had to wait 'like seven seconds' for anything. New, nonstandard mechanic = confuses idiot players = is reverted to bog-standard. That isn't an 'improvement', it's a step backwards from difference to blandness.

Every FPS with overheating pulse rifles or machineguns would obviously be improved by removing that, right? Wrong.

I'll almost certainly import my first character who saved the world (and everyone in it) while being as rude as the fat writers in Bioware let you. A harmless joke at someone else's expense as part of a normal relationship? +10 renegade!

The whole "overheat" thing ceased to be a factor near the middle of the game anyways. Once you start getting the mods that improve your cooling. I would have found it more enjoyable if the barrels had warped and it became useless, requiring you to discard it and grab a replacement.