StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Writing it here, to avoid thread hijack.

The game is very immersive: it has a lot of rail-road sequences and bits. You also get a little bit of a feel about stations and the monsters.

However, it sometime takes away too much control.

Either way, its an interesting game.

Dude the stealth is awesome. Running frontline with throwing knives and a bb gun is hilarious. By bad do you mean 'based on the three lights on your watch'?

The ideas are fine and the weapons are interesting too, but it's the execution with the levels that bothers me. The only stealth I was able to do so far is to take a route where there is no one. Every other try so far ended up with a gunfight, no matter how I look out for glass or traps.
The most annoying sequence was with the first one. I managed to kill every single person in that room except the ones around the fire. I had no idea how to kill those people silently.

Earlier when you're following the guy and see a wretch there's a room on the left he ignores that has a bb gun silent sniper thing. Bbs are really cheap once you get to the next area; but if you think the stealth sucks because you can't kill an entire room of people without alert going up inhave to disagree; that shit is retarded.

You may have a point, but the thing is that you need to kill everyone in that room. Otherwise, Bourbon won't move.

That's fine (and amusing since he doesn't shoot them even when their patrols take them RIGHT PAST HIM) but I actually like that they say 'oh dear our guys died' and get defensive instead of stupidly sitting there. Like many games, once you're ID'd even when you're in 'stealth' areas you can be seen and fired on; I find ducking around cover, waiting a bit, then sneaking out the other side works, which seems fine to me.

I can get all of them by stealth except the guy that runs right to the back behind all the crates; their noisemakers and cover make it damn hard to get a shot on him. Once you get the Tihar with optics stealth is totally ludicrous (especially if you get the NVG 'stealth suit' at Armoury).

By the way, did you finish the game? I got the
Spoiler The moral choice thingies are mostly hidden around the first few city areas. Although, I do have to say that this game did somewhat manage to pull off the dual-ending thing. Both endings are fairly satisfactory rather than "you suck" like some developer proposals I've seen.

I dunno, I got both by just doing it one way then doing it the other. At first I thought your ending was the only one because shooting the box itself made no difference. The chapter loading thing DID make me wonder if I'd be losing progress, but it seems not.

However the final level made me say 'Metro 2033 is better than Halflife 2 because the final boss isn't a platform section. Wait... actually it is.'

From what I've read of the book they chopped a lot out; I really enjoyed the game's atmosphere and playstyle, but it's so small/short it's a shame. The above-ground areas were fantastic, I just wish there were more levels, maybe some freedom, and about a third of the bullets. I ended up with 1500 AR bullets!

Oh, and multi.

So is it worth buying?

Only if you really like a story-based FPS. I myself am unsure whether I should bother with a second playtrough.

At first I thought your ending was the only one because shooting the box itself made no difference.

No, actually there is a minor difference:
Spoiler

Uh, no shit. I just said i got both. You just have to shoot the unit in the leg andnot the box. I understand if you're a cunt you don't even get the opportunity to knock it down. You don't need to replay the whole game if you get the gun at the end.

Julhelm wrote:So is it worth buying?

Not at 60$, wait for the inevitable plunge to the 30-20$ range.

Uh, no shit. I just said i got both. You just have to shoot the unit in the leg andnot the box. I understand if you're a cunt you don't even get the opportunity to knock it down. You don't need to replay the whole game if you get the gun at the end.

So, how do you do that? I must have totally missed something because I never even clued in that there was an alternate ending.

I understand if you're a cunt you don't even get the opportunity to knock it down. You don't need to replay the whole game if you get the gun at the end.

Erm, you do. If you are a "cunt" (ie, didn't find all the tape records, didn't pay enough beggars and whatnot) than you wake up only to see the missiles go.

So when I said you don't need to replay the whole game if you get the gun at the end, that was correct? Thank you for playing.

Kendall, remember I was talking about having to shoot the thing in the leg to knock it off? First time I shot the box itself and got the nuke ending, the I checkpointed and shot a leg and got the other one. Like Zinx said the endings aren't Bioware style RAR EVOL style, I liked the nuke ending.

So when I said you don't need to replay the whole game if you get the gun at the end, that was correct? Thank you for playing.

No, I said that what you said was incorrect. If you don't find enough moral points, you won't have the chance to shot the box. You wake up finding that the missiles are already on their way. If you want to get the chance to shoot it (if you get that ending) then you will have to replay the game.

Observe. Go to 7:50 or so. Even though you have the gun, you cannot shoot the box. Only if you have enough moral points will you get the chance.

By the way, was I the only one that found the whole Reds VS Reich thing just bizarre? I mean, it sounds like some sort of bad joke.

I rather enjoyed it actually, I found it odd but the level was well done and was pretty challenging if you decided to go in guns blazing.

Stark wrote:Uh, no shit. I just said i got both. You just have to shoot the unit in the leg andnot the box. I understand if you're a cunt you don't even get the opportunity to knock it down.

Here I explain that I got both, and if you don't get enough 'moral points' you don't even get the opportunity. Thanks for playing.

Frankly, I did almost nothing to get 'moral points'; I gave the kid a bullet and that was it. Wow, amazing. I bet if you replay the individual chapters (in towns) you'll be fine.

The communism/fascism thing is so clearly a piece of social commentary I can't believe anyone wouldn't get it. They commies are even on the RED LINE for fucks sake; their base is Lubyianka! Come the fuck on. The only laughable part is that the fascists have actual WW2 Wehrmacht helmets, which you'd think would be in pretty short supply in 21st century Moscow.

And frontline (and the war chapter) is one of the few parts of the game with any replay value, sadly. After Kendall talked about NVG/stealth approach, I even found the way he mentioned to get down to the bottom and sneak into the Nazi camp and fuck them up. I even accidentally saved the prisoners one time - if you kill all the fascists and the prisoners are still alive they get tagged allied and you can't kill them.

Actually, in the Russian VA the fascists are ALWAYS called 'fascista' and never 'Nazis', and there's no Nazi iconography. When my book arrives I'll see if they're supposed to be actual Nazis or just fascists.

I find stealth boring and tedious, can I just shoot the mothafuckas?

The communism/fascism thing is so clearly a piece of social commentary I can't believe anyone wouldn't get it. They commies are even on the RED LINE for fucks sake; their base is Lubyianka! Come the fuck on. The only laughable part is that the fascists have actual WW2 Wehrmacht helmets, which you'd think would be in pretty short supply in 21st century Moscow.

I get that it is supposed to be social commentary: even in the underworld of the metro, people will still cling to silly ideas like Marxist communism and fascism. It just seems so weird, that between fighting monsters and trying to make food in tight underground tunnels, there would be time for such shit.

The uniforms make sense actually: they were made. If the Metro people could make Hellsings, deadly BB guns and semi-automatic shotguns (that was actually pretty useless compared to the Hellsing) some nut could have had a few Nazi Fashion Weekly (or more likely, some well-illustrated history books) from which some people could copy the designs or retrofit old clothing to resemble the WW2 uniforms.

What's more weird to me is the air-locks. I know that Soviet engineering is famous for stressing reliability and my experiences to Metro is pretty limited only to London and Budapest system, but why the bloody hell would there be airlocks in a metro system? Did the Metro builders expect to double as a nuclear shelters or something?

Or for that matter...
Spoiler

aieeegrunt wrote:I find stealth boring and tedious, can I just shoot the mothafuckas?

Yes, pretty much.

Zixinus wrote:
The uniforms make sense actually: they were made. If the Metro people could make Hellsings, deadly BB guns and semi-automatic shotguns (that was actually pretty useless compared to the Hellsing) some nut could have had a few Nazi Fashion Weekly (or more likely, some well-illustrated history books) from which some people could copy the designs or retrofit old clothing to resemble the WW2 uniforms.

Well considering the only real "Nazi" element to their uniforms is the helmet, I don't find it too odd. Especially if its just a plain jane steel pot. Their insignia IIRC was some sort of "C."

What's more weird to me is the air-locks. I know that Soviet engineering is famous for stressing reliability and my experiences to Metro is pretty limited only to London and Budapest system, but why the bloody hell would there be airlocks in a metro system? Did the Metro builders expect to double as a nuclear shelters or something?

Probably, for what it's worth, in the book the PC lives in the worlds largest shelter, somewhere under Moscow. I remember Stas mentioning that the Soviets were more interested in providing such things then the West. Here in Canada there were plans to have a network of shelters but it was deemed to expensive.

Or for that matter...
Spoiler

Since when do churches have basements that connect to military outposts? And why do military outposts have a system for connecting to the Metro? Shouldn't a top secret underground base have more tight security than just a password?

Spoiler

aieeegrunt wrote:I find stealth boring and tedious, can I just shoot the mothafuckas?

Yes, pretty much.

You can but it makes that level a fair bit harder.

It did. After you enter, poke around the entrance. Theres a guard post and all that.

Guard posts yes, but what about such things as keys? Bioprint (retina, fingerprint, voice, etc) scanning? Double-key turning to make sure that the nukes (although I assume they're just regular, chemical-based missiles or something) don't go off accidentally?

I think that a good portion of post-Library areas were cut. If you look down, you can see spent cartridges on the lower levels. That indicates that some fighting took place in D6. I find it odd that creatures of various kinds could get all over the Metro, but the worst in D6 is that weird thing (that is somehow is not effected by the radiation, or at least is not killed by it). Also, there is a lack of bodies.

Zixinus wrote:
Guard posts yes, but what about such things as keys? Bioprint (retina, fingerprint, voice, etc) scanning? Double-key turning to make sure that the nukes (although I assume they're just regular, chemical-based missiles or something) don't go off accidentally?

Dude, it was probably built in the 60's-70's.

Edit: You do leave Ulman and that science-type dude back at the command centre. So I assume any double key turning would be done by them

I think that a good portion of post-Library areas were cut. If you look down, you can see spent cartridges on the lower levels. That indicates that some fighting took place in D6. I find it odd that creatures of various kinds could get all over the Metro, but the worst in D6 is that weird thing (that is somehow is not effected by the radiation, or at least is not killed by it). Also, there is a lack of bodies.

Those goo-balls and the thing on the reactor? Yeah, I agree with the cut, especially since the loading screen map is bloody huge.

Post Polis bits of at least exposition must have been cut since the story is totally broken. Somehow you go from there's something strange in the neighbourhood to 'oh yeah the dark ones with their big city on the surface let's nuke em'.

And D6 has little sign of combat and clearly hasn't been occupied since a period just after the war. I doubt all those construction site lifts were part of design, lol.

Zixinus wrote:What's more weird to me is the air-locks. I know that Soviet engineering is famous for stressing reliability and my experiences to Metro is pretty limited only to London and Budapest system, but why the bloody hell would there be airlocks in a metro system? Did the Metro builders expect to double as a nuclear shelters or something?

Are you kidding man? All Metros in the USSR were made as bomb and nuclear shelters.

I posted a crude translation of the first chapter of Metro here sometime before... I guess, here it is.

Zixinus wrote:I get that it is supposed to be social commentary: even in the underworld of the metro, people will still cling to silly ideas like Marxist communism and fascism. It just seems so weird, that between fighting monsters and trying to make food in tight underground tunnels, there would be time for such shit.

Communism is very popular in Russia, so the "Red Line" is perhaps one of the more realistic nation states (far more so than "Polis") - the only more real ones are the bandit thug commanded "stations" on the orange line. Neo-Nazis are on the rise after the collapse of USSR (Russian Neo-Nazis do sound very odd, but I'm sure you can find ones in Hungary as well), so them having one station under control is likewise no wonder.

It's a social fantasy after all. And Glukhovsky knows a little more about Russia, because he's a Russian; so his social commentary IS valid, and to a greater extent than people think. If it looks stupid to Americans or whatnot, I couldn't care less. They know nothing about Russia and continue to revel in that.

As an aside, the "Bad Missile Ending" is the official novel ending (the Dark Ones are wiped out with a missile strike). It's also not clear from the novel if the Dark Ones are good or bad, if it's true that they're "good" or they're brainwashing Artyom into doing their bidding (since they've mindfucked a hell lot of people). The game's unambigious on that, I suppose.

There are some other differences from the book, chiefly in day/night changing (in the book, the DAY is too dangerous to rise to the surface, in the game, it's the night).

I'm only getting started, so I'm not sure - the Che Guevara band are in the game or not?

Dialogue supports the day being dangerous, they must have just changed it for gameplay reasons or something. The dude you team up with after Polis talks about you needing to hurry up since dawn is approaching, even though it's broad daylight at the time.

Yeah, in the Library it's apparently nearly dawn and people talk about needing to hurry up. Even the game's marketing uses the day being dangerous; I guess they just figured they needed a counterpoint to the darkness.

Having read about a quarter of the book, I have to say up till Kahn the events are a fairly good game-translation. Almost nothing happens the same way, but the same feeling is generated. I imagine at some point there will be a subplot about stuff you never find out in the game.

The plot's pretty game-like; they cut out the boring stuff mostly, like talks on Random Station X and such.