Just Cause 2. Shit blows up, but...

[weemadando]

...not quite as well as BF:BC2 or RF:G. I wish that you had the building destruction in this from RF:G or even BC2 because then I think that I would never leave.

As it is, the fact that you can do ridonkulous shit as the norm makes it a lot of fun. Whether or not the mission design will be able to keep me interested enough to make it through their truly monstrous game however is another matter.

[adam_grif]

JC always looked a bit too... generic? for my taste. Is 2 worth looking into? I'm generally not a fan of "open world games" but there have been exceptions.

[Stark]

Since BF:BC2 SP and RF:G were complete shit, this is not a useful review.

I just want to know if anything ever comes back, or if like other open-world games the more you do, the less game you have to play. Remember Crackdown or Saints, where after you clear an area there is not NOTHING INTERESTING EVER THERE? Yeah. Like in Mercs where the NK army jeeps give up on the one-man army after a 200m chase. That sort of thing.

No multi basically means it's a rental, though. The game SCREAMS for multi, especially with vehicles, but that'd tax the poor 360 too much.

[weemadando]

Just Cause 2 is a bit more open than most "open world" games by virtue of having a grappling hook and a parachute that let you go pretty much anywhere you damn well want without much trudging in between.

The killer will be if most missions just turn into "LOL! SAM TURRET SPAM!" like so many of the originals did, thus taking away all of the fun gameplay (sky-jacking choppers, para-sailing behind cars and generally going nuts) and forcing you to play a mediocre 3rd person shooter.

[Stark]

That doesn't make it more open; it makes it easier. It's hard enough to die before alert level 4 as it is.

I repeat, if nothing ever comes back and the game is basically totally static so you can slowly chip through it and be left with a totally boring world, it is fundamentally broken. At least Crackdown patched in the 'respawn everyone' mode.

[Tolya]

I haven't looked at JC2 yet (Im upgrading to Win7 this week), but I really had great fun in JC1, even though it was a fairly generic sandbox shooter with a few nice ideas.

From what I've read in the reviews its a game for people who value open ended destruction and roaming more than actual story gameplay. And actually that's me.

One of the good things about Just Cause was that rushing head on Last Action Hero style was never as fun or as gratifying. It doesn't nullify all the mediocre stuff about this game, but charging with a speedboat at a very high speed, plowing it through the beach, jumping out with a parachute before it hit the rocks and then covering additional distance while blowing shit up was just adrenaline pumping.

Im actually very curious about JC2. From what I've seen in the previews, generic 3rd person shooter sequences are still there, but aerial action sequences and the ability to get just about everywhere look quite good.

JC1 got 6,8 from IGN, JC2 got 8,8. I hope that is somewhat indicative of the quality increment. If so, JC2 could be a very nice game.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

I picked it up retail yesterday... Steamworks, so the disk in the case is basically worthless... as I've been downloading it for almost half a day now... (ISP really fucking blows...)

86%... so, I'll probably be able to tell ya something concrete in a day.


Grabbed it because I'd heard good things about the first one, and Mercs 2 failed rather spectacularly in the arena... Whilst JC2 here seems to be getting good ratings, even on /v/...

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Right, for Stark. Very, very little outside of Chaos Objectives are destroyable. What is are basically small structures like bunkers, watchtowers and trees. Some SAMs are 100% Targets, I believe the ones that aren't respawn.

Taking a base with the factions results in that place basically being empty. Though, I haven't started any fights in "allied" faction bases.


Controls are pretty solid, though running seems a little loose. The only major omission is the lack of tail rudder controls for the planes... Makes the air "races" more of a pain than they should be...

No cover system, so yeah it's a firmly mediocre TPS in the basic combat. Vehicles with weapons have infinite ammo, and so do any mounted guns, even when detached from their mountings.

The island is HUUUGE though... Yet, their distance seems messed up like most games that actually tell you. The display says meters, but they seem more like feet...

[weemadando]

Like I said, if this had the building destruction of RF:G or even Bad Company 2 I'd be spooging all over this like crazy. As it is, I'm impressed and will keep playing it for craziness sake, but it's not blowing me away.

[Stark]

Do you think you're answering my question? Demos are on every platform. I know exactly how the game is played; I've played it. I was just curious if anything ever comes back, and since it doesn't when you're near the end of the game the game will be massively boring. Oh well. The idea that once you finish there is literally nothing to do makes me giddy.

Any design that rewards players for success or progress by making swathes of the gameworld useless is retarded beyond words. Amusingly Crackdown 2 noticed everyone hated that about Crackdown; I guess the JC2 devs were too busy making no multiplayer they forgot to pay attention.

Do people honestly not notice that games with building destruction always suck? Red Faction was one of the lamest games of 09 and sank like a stone almost instantly, and Bad Company 2 is a soulless rehash of MW2 with no redeeming features. Oh and Crysis... lol

[weemadando]

I don't know STRAK, I've only managed to put in two hours, what with work and babies and stuff. I'll let you know when I finally actually do some of the faction missions rather than just tooling about hijacking jets to crash into blimp-casinos. To be honest I could probably not even touch the plot in this game and still be fairly satisfied.

Also - Bad Company 2, badmouth it all you want, but it's fun. How's that for a rebuttal. OOH!

[Stark]

It's not about plot, genius. It's that once you blow up an area, it's blown up and now contributes nothing to the game. Since it takes less than an hour to clear half a dozen locations, this doesn't bode well for the lategame when there only remains a tiny part of the game that still has anything worth doing. It doesn't help that dying is so hard so long as you stay mobile.

And no, BC2's singleplayer sucks. That you can't accept that is irrelevant. The building destruction is even pretty fixed anyway; the incongruity of water towers exploding from pistol fire and potplants being invincible aside, such template-based 'destruction' would just make Just Cause 2 a barren boring wasteland FASTER. Yay?

[Tolya]

I enjoyed Red Faction for about 15 minutes. Then blowing up the same stuff over and over again in most ludicrous of ways became boring.

I picked up JC2 and Im installing Win7 today, so I will let you know as soon as I put osme time into it.

[Tolya]

Besides, building destruction in BC2 does not really contribute anything to the single player game. Its just a fun gimmick - you don't have time to litter buildings with grenades anyway since every time a shooting starts you need to focus on the train of enemies coming your way.

I really miss games like Soldiers: Heroes of WWII and the third installment of that series (the last one, forgot the name), where demolishing buildings not only was pure fun, but also added another layer of tactical depth. You could shoot a sabot through a wall killing a tank on the other side. Or put a HE round into a house and kill a sniper there. Pure bliss in an otherwise mediocre game (it was bugged like Beetlejuice's teeth).

[Stark]

Or crazy old Silent Storm, where you could collapse a whole side of a building with one bomb and kill a bajillion guys... in BC it's just 'this wall has hole in it now', which is fine for multi.

[Norade]

I used the blow your way through a building system in BC2 to skip a few combat sections by simply creeping my way through builds using the under slung grenade launcher to open a path through buildings at the edge of the combat zone. Sadly doing that was about the most fun I had with single player because frankly it was bland at best and annoying at worst.

[Stark]

And totally linear corridor style, unlike BC1 or even MW2. Just like JC2 you could put holes in walls but not railings, some fences, etc...

[Norade]

I found the spawn points in BC2 were poorly done too, you could almost see the enemies pop into existence as you crossed certain lines in the game. Taking out TOW sites with tanks was laughably bad and I found myself amazed at how hard it was to kill a lone missile site with my tank's cannon was. The desert level where the sand gimped your view but not the computers also pissed me off a ton. I didn't beat the single player, and looking back I'm amazed I got as far as I did.

[Ryan Thunder]

And totally linear corridor style, unlike BC1 or even MW2. Just like JC2 you could put holes in walls but not railings, some fences, etc...

Well, at least they did try to get away from that with the "Dude they have mortars there!" stuff.

[Norade]

And totally linear corridor style, unlike BC1 or even MW2. Just like JC2 you could put holes in walls but not railings, some fences, etc...

Well, at least they did try to get away from that with the "Dude they have mortars there!" stuff.

Mortar, invisible wall, honestly they're the same thing. I mean even a really linear game like Metal Gear Solid 4 gave me more ways to go and more play styles than this supposedly ground breaking game did. Now imagine if you could blow up walls in MSG4?

[Ryan Thunder]

And totally linear corridor style, unlike BC1 or even MW2. Just like JC2 you could put holes in walls but not railings, some fences, etc...

Well, at least they did try to get away from that with the "Dude they have mortars there!" stuff.

Mortar, invisible wall, honestly they're the same thing. I mean even a really linear game like Metal Gear Solid 4 gave me more ways to go and more play styles than this supposedly ground breaking game did. Now imagine if you could blow up walls in MSG4?

Well, you're absolutely right in saying that it does nothing for the game's linearity.

I personally find that approach to be less annoying and SoD-breaking than an arbitrary invisible wall, though, even if its just as silly.

[Norade]

Well, you're absolutely right in saying that it does nothing for the game's linearity.

I personally find that approach to be less annoying and SoD-breaking than an arbitrary invisible wall, though, even if its just as silly.

I agree there, but honestly having mortars as opposed to invisible walls or a teleport back to your squad doesn't make the game any less suck and the fact that it is mentioned at all shows how bad the game is.

[Zac Naloen]

Just to answer Starks questions re: just cause 2 and things coming back..


Some things come back. Some don't.

If you destroy things that relate to achievements then no they don't come back, in terms of defenses that basically means SAM sites making end game ridiculously easy for aircraft if you are smart and keep your heat level low.

But ground defenses, I.e defensive towers unless you've taken the stronghold, which is part of the in game missions, do respawn every reload.

[weemadando]

such template-based 'destruction' would just make Just Cause 2 a barren boring wasteland FASTER. Yay?

I don't know, sometimes it's nice to come out the other side of a massive firefight in Bad Company, Soldiers or Red Faction and just look back on the devastation that you have left behind.

It would actually be "interesting" (inverted commas for a reason) to make this kind of game an Iraq War allegory or something, where every bit of damage to civilian infrastructure makes the population angrier, but the gov't weaker. Taking out an apartment block makes the population super-pissed. So you can either try and fight a nice, clean tidy war and win the hearts and minds or just level every goddamn thing and have to fight everyone.

[Tolya]

I got JC2 to run. First of all, it may simply be me seeing DX10 graphics for the first time, but the landscapes are just mindblowing and massive.

As for the game itself, it is lots of fun, you however need to brace yourself for a few things:

1) Cheesy (borderline sucky sometimes) dialogues. This game does not treat itself seriously (c'mon, old president of Panau islands was called "Papa Panay" and was assasinated by his son "Baby Panay"...) which is a welcome refreshment from GTAIV "realism".

2) Steering is a bit awkward. Maybe I just need to get used to it, but there is some definite annoying inertia to the aiming system.

3) Shooting has an auto aim system developed for the consoles. It does make the game easier for the PC and it does not intrude that much so its not a big deal.

4) Destructo-world. Think Crysis. Trees go down, barrels explode, some buildings. Not much else.

Will write more tomorrow.