StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Or rather, having it built by a very good-at-this-kind-of-thing friend.

I'm not sure about the details yet. I know I'm going to have ~$700 to spend on this, maybe a bit more (I figure I can squeeze about a grand.)

I need a machine that's good enough to play modern games, but will also be as future-resistant as possible: IE, that can be upgraded relatively easily.

The trouble is.. I have no idea how. The friend that I'm thinking of having do this saw an article called How to Build an Awesome PC for $647. He was thinking of just following that point-by-point, but if I can squeeze some extra dough into the mix - and bearing in mind that the article's four months old (assuming that it was put up when it was first published, which it might not have been,) I was wondering what changes could/should be made to the parts list in terms of making it both better and more futureproof?

I used to work with Gordon and Will when I was at Maximum PC a decade ago, they know their builds to be sure.

Most of what they are suggesting is still valid. If you plan on squeezing your budget a little for a gaming PC, I would recommend upgrading the graphics from a 5770 to a 5850 card which should give you a lot of extra "bang" for your buck.

Other than that there really aren't any upgrades you need to make in this price range. I might consider some different case options though as I'm not a fan of Rosewill designs (although it's hard to argue with $19), but this largely comes down to personal preference and how much you feel like blowing on the chassis.

Well, when the friend of mine in question did an essential rebuild of my current PC (I bought a new GPU and PSU to go in it. The new PSU wouldn't fit in the old Vaio case. Cue him transplanting all the guts into a new case) he used a Cooler Master case that I am, frankly, quite fond of. It's not inconcievable that I could have him just use this case again (thus dropping the price from $19 to $0 since it's purchase is already a fait accompli,) but I think my aunt would object, since it's nominally her computer. (The, um... Well, I guess she still owns the mobo and the original hard drive.)


Of course, that does raise the problem that if I want to put this in another location, it'll need keyboard, mouse, monitor (the real ouch,) and of course, I'll need to deal with the headache of a router and crap, but that's a bridge to be crossed when I get there. Suffice to say for now that I'm thinking it's probably best to hang on to my current computer in it's current configuration, but expect the thing to be shelved, lock, stock and barrel, which means not saving on a case by cannibalizing the one I have now.

Mostly, I was thinking in terms of upgrading the memory and RAM. 4 gigs is, well, better than twice what I have now, but 6 is obviously a third more than that (and a full fourfold improvement over what I have now.) That would probably nessessitate a different mobo, though. And of course, the memory - well, 500 Gb is really good, but in terms of memory, more is always better; let's face it, my porn and music has to go somewhere, and I'm not so flash and flush that I can have a gaming rig, a music rig, and a smut rig. So I was thinking of (a) more hard drives, or (b) higher capacity hard drives, or even (c) more hard drives of higher capacity.

4GB of memory is good enough for most anything today that a gaming PC will do and you can always upgrade it later. You are the one who is best equipped to talk about your HD space needs though.

Hard drive space is trivial to upgrade; you just plug a second or third one in. Memory is easy to upgrade if you have open slots; presumably you are putting in 2 x 2gb modules, so there will be room for another 2 if you need them. You can upgade a GPU (particularly a 5850) later by putting in a second one and crossfiring them, which works reasonably well but isn't as seamless as adding memory. You can't upgrade a CPU without scrapping the old one, so even though it's less important than the GPU for gaming, don't skimp on it too badly.

The Kernel wrote:I used to work with Gordon and Will when I was at Maximum PC a decade ago, they know their builds to be sure.

Alright, I gotta ask...is Gordon really as ranty as he is during his "rant of the week" on the podcast?

Lonestar wrote: Alright, I gotta ask...is Gordon really as ranty as he is during his "rant of the week" on the podcast?

Nah, he's a really mellow guy in person he just digs the idea of his media personality being a ranty "old" guy.

I've about finished; I've got the cash I'll need. Now it's just a question of the parts.

This is the parts list I built. (Hope that works.)

I've never done this before, though. I've got all the part types from the original article I listed above, many of the same parts in places, but I went and decided I wanted to splurge on a nice-looking case; I went with the 5850 instead of the 5770, upgraded the PSU to handle that, and went with 2x 1Tb drives instead of 1x500Gb.

Is there any glaring screw-up I've made here? One thing that concerns me is the PSU - it has a big fan on one of the broad sides, and the case doesn't have a vent in the top rear. (Does any case?) Is that supposed to be venting down into the main case, or what?

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:and went with 2x 1Tb drives instead of 1x500Gb.

Is there any glaring screw-up I've made here?

Yes, unless you have some reason for why the hell are you spending $160 on 2 1TB drives. (and don't say RAID) Just get a 2TB for $110. The only other thing I can see is that processor looks kind of weak. Since you're probably not going to be doing many things that can actually make use of 4 cores like encoding video or virtualizing and you're on a budget, you can probably get by with a dual-core. Games almost certainly won't be utilizing 4 cores any time soon (or ever) due to the fact that it's very hard to program for more then one core, among other things.

It's your choice but if you do decide to go with a dual-core I recommend this one, or if you really want a quad core and have $60 extra bucks the quad core version of the same processor.

Also that's at least twice as much money as you need to spend for a 600w power supply. If you act in the next 3 1/2 hours you can get this 600w PS for $30.

Dominus Atheos wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:and went with 2x 1Tb drives instead of 1x500Gb.

Is there any glaring screw-up I've made here?

Yes, unless you have some reason for why the hell are you spending $160 on 2 1TB drives. (and don't say RAID) Just get a 2TB for $110.

Reliability. The 2TBs are on the edge of current technology. If I get 1x2TB and it fries out, I'm stuffed, cooked, and served. Even if it can be replaced under warranty, I'm still up shit creek for anything that was on there and not backed up, not to mention without a gaming PC.

Whereas if I have 2x1TB drives, I've got redundancy and more reliability in the drives. Even on NewEgg, those reviews are only a smidge above 1/3rd positive, and they're nearly 1/3rd "This is craaaaap!"

I'd rather spend another ~$40-50 and double up on drives that are uniformly considered reliable.

The only other thing I can see is that processor looks kind of weak. Since you're probably not going to be doing many things that can actually make use of 4 cores like encoding video or virtualizing and you're on a budget, you can probably get by with a dual-core. Games almost certainly won't be utilizing 4 cores any time soon (or ever) due to the fact that it's very hard to program for more then one core, among other things.

It's your choice but if you do decide to go with a dual-core I recommend this one, or if you really want a quad core and have $60 extra bucks the quad core version of the same processor.

I really know nothing about processors beyond the fact that mine is simply no longer sufficient. The one I have set up now was the one reccomended by the article. As for the PSU...

Well, that's a hefty looking PSU. The price is much better... Unfortunately, I missed the chance to jump on it at $30. But $75 beats $110.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Reliability. The 2TBs are on the edge of current technology. If I get 1x2TB and it fries out, I'm stuffed, cooked, and served. Even if it can be replaced under warranty, I'm still up shit creek for anything that was on there and not backed up, not to mention without a gaming PC.

Whereas if I have 2x1TB drives, I've got redundancy and more reliability in the drives.

If reliability is your main concern, buy the drives from different manufacturers. It'll only cost ~$3 more, and the chances of them failing in close succession will be much reduced.

Starglider wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Reliability. The 2TBs are on the edge of current technology. If I get 1x2TB and it fries out, I'm stuffed, cooked, and served. Even if it can be replaced under warranty, I'm still up shit creek for anything that was on there and not backed up, not to mention without a gaming PC.

Whereas if I have 2x1TB drives, I've got redundancy and more reliability in the drives.

If reliability is your main concern, buy the drives from different manufacturers. It'll only cost ~$3 more, and the chances of them failing in close succession will be much reduced.

Is there a problem with Seagate I'm not aware of? My computer guy uses them, and Seagate is what the article suggested.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Is there a problem with Seagate I'm not aware of? My computer guy uses them, and Seagate is what the article suggested.

No, I mean get one drive from Seagate and one drive from someone else. If you buy two drives of the same capacity and manufacturer from the same distributor, they'll probably come from the same batch, and the chance of near-simultaneous failure is significantly increased. Incidentally this strategy is often applied on a much larger scale for datacenter reliability (e.g. it's a major reason why Google multi-source their drives).

Starglider wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Is there a problem with Seagate I'm not aware of? My computer guy uses them, and Seagate is what the article suggested.

No, I mean get one drive from Seagate and one drive from someone else. If you buy two drives of the same capacity and manufacturer from the same distributor, they'll probably come from the same batch, and the chance of near-simultaneous failure is significantly increased. Incidentally this strategy is often applied on a much larger scale for datacenter reliability (e.g. it's a major reason why Google multi-source their drives).

Oooooooh, I see!

I hadn't thought about that. I thought you were saying "choose a different manufacturer," not "get a Seagate and something else entirely."

ProTip Get! Thanks. Any suggestions for other decent 1TB drives?

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:ProTip Get! Thanks. Any suggestions for other decent 1TB drives?

WD?

phongn wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:ProTip Get! Thanks. Any suggestions for other decent 1TB drives?

WD?

Actually, that's what I did decide to go for, a Western Digital.

Now I'm just caught in a bind. I decided to go with a Rosewill Wind Knight case, which has an absurd number of fan mounts; the front, top, and two panels in the far side can take up to 140s, the rear can take a 120, and there's space for a "slim 80" under the mobo. I take this to mean that it will take 80x80x15mm, but not 80x80x25.

Unfortunately, I found an x25 I really love, one with a wicked, Samuel L. Mace Motherfucking Windu purple LED light, and I've gone kind of LED-crazy.

Does anyone know where one can find an 80x80x15 with an LED color that preferably isn't blue? Or for that matter, 140s which are purple or red?


(I am such a pikey.)

Buy quiet fans rather than blinged out LED fans. Your ears will thank you.

phongn wrote:Buy quiet fans rather than blinged out LED fans. Your ears will thank you.

Oh, almost certainly, but I don't have the means to bling out my car (nor a car worth blinging out,) so I kind of feel obliged to spend some money to buy something entirely impractical and flashy and showy, you know?

ShadowDragon8685 wrote: Oh, almost certainly, but I don't have the means to bling out my car (nor a car worth blinging out,) so I kind of feel obliged to spend some money to buy something entirely impractical and flashy and showy, you know?

No, I don't, and you won't either in a few months when you try to turn on the computer quietly to avoid waking a (girl) friend and grimace as the damn thing lights up like a flamboyantly homosexual Christmas tree strapped to a roaring jet engine on full military power.

Get quiet fans. You'll appreciate it more than LED fans.

Dave wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote: Oh, almost certainly, but I don't have the means to bling out my car (nor a car worth blinging out,) so I kind of feel obliged to spend some money to buy something entirely impractical and flashy and showy, you know?

No, I don't, and you won't either in a few months when you try to turn on the computer quietly to avoid waking a (girl) friend and grimace as the damn thing lights up like a flamboyantly homosexual Christmas tree strapped to a roaring jet engine on full military power.

Get quiet fans. You'll appreciate it more than LED fans.

Suffice to say my romantic prospects are and have been nil, and the computer won't be in my bedroom anyway.

Plus, a "flamboyantly homosexual Christmas Tree strapped to a roaring jet engine on full military power" sounds epic awesome.


That, and fans are easy to replace if they get annoying, but I have a lot of tolerance for white noise in my area.

'Blinging out' generally refers to the ostentatious use of precious metals to demonstrate wealth.

A few 20c LEDs in shit-bearing fans is hardly appropriate.

I bought an Alienware with all the lights and cool case and shit like that. It's awesome. Don't do it.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:That, and fans are easy to replace if they get annoying, but I have a lot of tolerance for white noise in my area.

You are destroying your hearing. If you must make it look fancy, buy an attractive case.

Personally I prefer water cooling, which is completely silent when done correctly. To this end I have four separate Zalman Reserators, although only two are in use at the moment (pending future purchase of a AMD Bulldozer + 4 x ATI 6970 workstation). These days there are plenty of factory sealed water cooling kits with a radiator that goes in one or more 5.25 bays, for people who aren't confident about cutting tubing and sealing against leaks.