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Played various editions of d&d up to (but only a little bit of) 3rd ed. But I am sort of tired of the high fantasy bit. Specifically the low lethality, and class (and alignment) structure. I also have played WEGs Star Wars stuff, and have (but not played) their, now free, d6 fantasy and space stuff. I like WEGs d6 stuff, but the dice rolling can get cumbersome, and the pre-made spells are pretty sparse and lackluster.

So, I am wondering if there are rpgs out there that are sort of similar to WEGs stuff (no classes, skill-based). I would also accept other recommendations, though the more niche they are, the less likely I am to play them (fuck off anime). Also, Exalted is not the sort of thing i had in mind, as we can aready do ridiculous overpowerd gamey shit with d&d.

traveller for sci-fi

Any version you want, it's been around over three decades. It even has a d20 version, but most systems use d6s. Each system has its pros and cons.

How easy is that to find? Aren't the older versions out of print? Isn't one GURPS? How bad is GURPS really?

Also, when I said I am tired of high fantasy, I didn't necessarily mean only scifi. Fastasy is still cool, just got bored of EPIC BATTLES and shit, which d&d pushes you towards. Just to clarify.

Cyberpunk 2020 is modern, high lethality, and skill based. It does have its warts though, if you let them your players can build their characters into nigh unhurtable tanks and the rules and books encourage a player versus GM mentality. However, if you can finesse it just right it makes for a fun game.

The issue might be finding the books, though if you're into less than legal means I bet you could torrent it and I know for a fact e-bay has some books for not too bad prices.

Indie Press Revolution has a ton of indie P&P games. If you use RPG.net reviews, you can see if they fit what you are going for. I do suggest Burning Empires. Based on a series of comics by Chris Moeller that cite Dune, 40K and Asimov's Foundation trilogy as the source, characters a built using lifepaths which reflect what they've been through to get to where they are. Rules for debates and combat and before play starts, the group creates their planet from scratch using the system. Uses a big ol' pool of d6s for rolling.

Roll To Dodge. I never tried to play it PnP, but it's viable. And likely more fun than the forum-based version.

Artemas wrote:How easy is that to find? Aren't the older versions out of print? Isn't one GURPS? How bad is GURPS really?

Also, when I said I am tired of high fantasy, I didn't necessarily mean only scifi. Fastasy is still cool, just got bored of EPIC BATTLES and shit, which d&d pushes you towards. Just to clarify.

GURPS is not bad, but it does take a lot of getting into, specially if playing at higher tech levels. Gurps has a skill for just about anything and is designed as a point buy system. It also has a huge amount of different advantages and disadvantages for characters. The amount of effort that goes into a gurps character means it's not suited to high lethality games, unless magical / hi-tech solution is available. The point buy mechanic also means characters tend to be quite focused to their primary purpose i.e fighters have high dexterity and strength and magical / science types tend to max out intelligence. One of the best aspects of gurps are the setting / source books that are well made and give you great help when game mechanics are needed to solve a situation.

CP2020 is a valid candidate, but strictly speaking it's not classless and the single d10 mechanic is a product of the 90's as is some of the technical data on equipment. It's easily tweaked though and has a nice balance between the amount of skills and what given skill actually covers. Be warned though, the later CP2020 supplements can turn the game into supercyborgpirateninjawars.

-Gunhead

Honestly, I'm tempted to suggest Exalted to you anyway, because it's really very little like D&D. And if the fact that your character is a demi-god from the word go is a turn off, then perhaps you could try an Heroic Mortal campaign, using the rules in Exalted supplement book Scroll of Heroes. Heroic mortals are fairly regular dudes, and in a stand-up fight they stand no chance against Exalts. Unless you're a munchkin. But that sort of game could be well suited to plotting and scheming, political intrigue, and it would require tactics and strategy and meticulous planning and leadership. Where as if you were playing an Exalt, it would require you to glow a lot and hit things with your door-sized sword.

But ah, I don't know, really. Exalted is one of my favourite RPG systems and settings, and there isn't really anything I would recommend before it, but I suppose that may just be my personal preference.

Alternatively you could check out some of the World of Darkness books, if you're not already familiar and utterly opposed to them. My personal favourite is the Old World of Darkness gameline Demon: The Fallen.

Artemas wrote:How easy is that to find? Aren't the older versions out of print? Isn't one GURPS? How bad is GURPS really?

One is GURPS yes, but I've never played GURPS before. As far as how easy it is to find, your local gaming store ought to have the latest, Mongoose edition of Traveller in stock and if it doesn't, you can look it up on Mongoose's website. T20 is no longer supported and has lost the licence to Mongoose, but you might still be able to get a free downloadable lite version. Of all the d20 products I liked Traveller the most.

Also, when I said I am tired of high fantasy, I didn't necessarily mean only scifi. Fastasy is still cool, just got bored of EPIC BATTLES and shit, which d&d pushes you towards. Just to clarify.

I understand. It's out there for your consideration, but you're not obligated to follow my recommendations. You could make Traveller a fantasy game though, it has provisions for psionic powers (with a little tweaking you could simply rename it magic) and low-tech primitive societies and weaponry. Or you could find something else that is more suited to your needs.

I adore Rifts, and will recommend it to anyone looking for gaming, but most either love it or hate it.

Highlord Laan wrote:I adore Rifts, and will recommend it to anyone looking for gaming, but most either love it or hate it.

Gah, I am in the hate category for Rifts. Their rules are byzantine, classes aren't balanced, combat is long and consists of missing a lot, or making sure you can fire over 4 missiles per turn so the enemy can't just dodge. Things like power punches that simply do double the damage of a normal punch for twice the attack actions are worse than useless as they actually screw you over. The entire system looks like it was designed to be as worthless as possible.

Shadowrun is an excellent mix of cyberpunk and urban fantasy (read: magic).
The system is also both easy to learn and sufficiently complex.

If you like Warhammer40K, try one of the RPGs for it as well.

Paranoia is just plain hilarious and mad - essentially a game about infighting and crazy stuff and lots of fun (dwarf fortress style).

You're right about Exalted- it's a nightmare for a beginner. Does the same thing as a lot of White Wolf games- positively demands immersion, by feeding you the rules wrapped up in background salad so that you have to take one in with the other, and by flavouring everything so strongly that the mechanics are part of the universe.

Which is fine, if you like the universe. I got fed up with the World of Darkness a long time ago, there are some elegant ideas in there but it was just immersed in such a thick layer of emo I couldn't take it any more. If you can tolerate that kind of thing, second ed is the best version- more worked- out and smoother flowing than first, less thoroughly marinated in black ink than third.


Traveller is the classic space opera, but there are so many distinct versions- and basically five distinct versions of the setting- that it isn't really a single subject. I like the mechanics of GURPS Traveller, but I spent more time actually playing TNE- I was prepared to tolerate the godawful mechanics for the sake of the setting there, which is after the interstellar apocalypse, rebuilding, trying to put civilisation back together. Long out of print. Mongoose traveller I really can't speak to.


Paranoia- any edition you like, players don't get to know the rules anyway- is a great game for lateral thinking training. Players are so regularly confronted with no-win situations, logical impossibilities, bureaucratic hose jobs and catch-22's that you cannot succeed and survive by being stupid. (Most people would say it's impossible to succeed and survive anyway, but...) Of all the dubious benefits claimed for gaming, about lateral thinking, social and problem solving skills, this is the one that comes closer than anything else to actually delivering, IMO.


Runequest- both the original (well, second-third ed anyway) Chaosium BRP system, but mainly the Issaries Industries version. More fluid, much less formal than D&D, a rule system that is built into the setting that actually flows and makes dramatic, poetic quasi- bronze age heroism a real and living thing, it is fast and elegant.

The most fun you'll have with Traveler is making a character. I mean it. Rolling up a character is really entertaining. But the actual gameplay falls a bit flat for my tastes.

I would recommend Dark Heresy as it's high-lethality and definitely not ridiculously overpowered, but it does have classes... but it isn't that difficult to come up with your own list of allowable advances to buy with experience and let people re-label themselves.

Thanks guys. The games that have (sort of) made the short list are:

Traveller: I've heard good things about this one, and you guys just confirmed it. Can someone go into more detail as the the differences between the various editions? Any "must haves"? Is the setting necessary, or can it just be dumped into whatever?

Cyberpunk 2020: Heard goods things before, but also that it was dated. Is there any reason to prefer this to Shadowrun or vice versa other than elves, orcs and magic? Also, reading the 2020 thread here makes it seem pretty fun.

Paranoia: Have always really wanted to try it out, has been really hard to find.

Burning Empires: Seems kinda interesting, with a cool world building component. I guess it is sort of semi-competive? Anyone care to elaborate in general?

One of the 40k rpgs: Other than the setting, is there anything to really recommend it over the others listed here? Honest question. How does it compare to Traveller, or CP2020? Or WEG D6 for that matter.

And then the others:

World of darkness: As Eleventh Century Remnant said, it just seemed to collapse under the weight of the themes and setting. If you didn't like their setting, you were sort of fucked, because the rules were designed to tie in seamlessly. Though i guess that there are a bunch of books, and each one is sort of like a mini-game? Differences between them? Opinions?

Runequest: Heard of it, but nothing past that. Fast and elegant is good. I'm not sure that I'm looking for mythic-level heroism, at the moment. Is that what you meant, or something else?

Roll to Dodge: I need more than a name. Also, no reviews on RPG.net. Is there any reason I would want to play it?

GURPS: Yeah, it doesn't sound terrible or anything, and I too have heard the source books are pretty good, and everything is just generally well detailed. But if WEG d6 is a tad on the sluggish side, I am not sure that GURPS is worth my time (i don't have that much of it).

Exalted: How is it mechanically? I am not totally dead-set against it, it's just that everyone that i've ever heard recommend it basically just say "It's so awesome, you can use a sword the size of a house, and glow like a super-sayan!". Not good enough. As I said, not only can I do that in d&d (through shitty mechanics), but I am also looking for a high lethality, more toned-down game. Not something where a naked man armed with a pointy stick and wade into a 10,000 man army, and leave a 10,000 man mass grave a couple of hours later. So, long story short, you would need to give me a good pitch to convince me to try it. As I have sort of alluded to earlier, I don't have the time to read through or try a fuckton of different RPGs. I am trying to narrow it down to just a few.

Also, Eleventh Century Remnant, i've been following your homebrew rpg, I don't suppose that is up for trial? Seems pretty interesting mechanically.

I'll just comment on the ones I have personal experience with.

Artemas wrote:Traveller: I've heard good things about this one, and you guys just confirmed it. Can someone go into more detail as the the differences between the various editions? Any "must haves"? Is the setting necessary, or can it just be dumped into whatever?

Traveller is very rules-generic. If what you're looking for is science fiction with a heavy dose of hard science, you want Traveller. You can tweak it as you please, of course; the setting changes immensely if you make a few minor tweaks. Just adding FTL communication changes everything, as does changing up the FTL travel paradigm. Those are the two big ones in terms of "mechanics dictate crunch," the third would probably be eliminating sandcasters and the radiation melt-you-good superweapons and adding energy shields that are effective against all sorts of things. It takes to tinkering very, very easily.

The dice system in the current official version, produced by Mongoose, I have to admit I am not thrilled with it; of all the games I play semi-regularly, it's my least favorite dice system; but I do play it. I also would like to stab the guy that thought that random character generation wherein your player characters can wind up as ultra supermen or crippled drifters barely hanging on with no skills whatsoever was a good idea. If you're planning to use it, I strongly advise that you (a) allow players some set number of re-rolls to use when they roll crap, (b) let them pick the skill they develop rather than roll for it, (c) assign a point-buy for statistics traits, or (d) something else, possibly letting them just pick their results on the table and simply giving them a set number of tours of duty.

GURPS: Yeah, it doesn't sound terrible or anything, and I too have heard the source books are pretty good, and everything is just generally well detailed. But if WEG d6 is a tad on the sluggish side, I am not sure that GURPS is worth my time (i don't have that much of it).

I'm just gonna spell it out for you. Generic Universal Roleplaying System. That pretty much says it all; you can make GURPS do everything from Superman to Star Trek to the Crusades and epic paleolithic wars. That's both the upshot... and the downshot. You're more or less going to be going through half the work of designing your own RPG to make GURPS fit what you want, unless you want invincible supermen who can stun people from 40 yards and fly in your low fantasy.

Exalted: How is it mechanically? I am not totally dead-set against it, it's just that everyone that i've ever heard recommend it basically just say "It's so awesome, you can use a sword the size of a house, and glow like a super-sayan!". Not good enough. As I said, not only can I do that in d&d (through shitty mechanics), but I am also looking for a high lethality, more toned-down game. Not something where a naked man armed with a pointy stick and wade into a 10,000 man army, and leave a 10,000 man mass grave a couple of hours later. So, long story short, you would need to give me a good pitch to convince me to try it. As I have sort of alluded to earlier, I don't have the time to read through or try a fuckton of different RPGs. I am trying to narrow it down to just a few.

If the players want to be the Solar Exalted, Infernal Exalted or Abyssal Exalted, you have to accept that you cannot tell them no. If you tell them no, they will find a way, and be able to point to chapter and verse saying that they can do it, and you will tear your hair out.

Exalted is not the game of No. It's the game of Yes. The Exalted are literally supermen, magical nukes of pure awesomeness, or pure death, or hellish punk-rock nightmares, or shapeshifting wild fury, or stargazing backstabbing martial arts, or the elemental blood ignited gifted from the creator of Creaton, bonded to the soul of a human being.

But it is very lethal. A naked man without even a pointy stick can walk into a 10,000 man army and leave 10,000 mass graves, and Exalted will get you there faster than D&D. He might do it by unleashing the hellish sorcery of Scarlet-Pattern Battlefield, or shapeshifting into a tyrannosaurus that's covered in clam-shell armor and spikes, or simply by leaping into the sky punching them all at once. But it can also have one of the Chosen being killed by a random mortal if they don't invest anything in their combat abilities.

If you're playing Exalted with the Exalted, there will be nothing "toned-down" about the game. The game is designed to be the game that says "you want to be a world-changing power in one man? Okay." And it starts you off there, because it's a game that was designed for you to take the canon state of affairs, knee Canon in the nuts and start rifling it's pockets for loose change.

But, as I said, it is very lethal. Let me illustrate this for you:

In my Exalted Modern game last Saturday (yes, it's not canon, but the scenario's not that impossible in the default setting,) the players all wound up in the Boston Aquarium at the same time that a new founded magical mafia was trying to perform a hit. This event, of course, being staged by the ST to get his players together; the players are all Celestials, so he figured that a Terrestrial twinked to bolster his two Heroic Mortal pals would be enough to make us go all-out.

Well, my character (who is a Night-caste vigilante) was carrying a Walther PPK, and made all his rolls to notice these guys about to start trouble. I readied myself for battle before they did, successfully hiding that fact, and I made the stealth rolls to conceal myself. By the time the bad guys were pulling their guns - Thompsons, magically hidden in their trousers (and yes, it was 2011, not 1921. They like to roll old-school,) I had already drawn a bead on the lead guy, the Terrestrial Exalt, and fired three times.

I killed him more or less instantly. The ST went over his build of the guy to see if he had anything to defeat a surprise attack, and he didn't. One of the Terrestrial Exalted dead before he could even get a shot off. I didn't even use any magic for it, I just have extremely high dice pools for stealth and shooting pistols; but it could just as easily have been a hand crossbow or a trio of shuriken. Seriously, the damage on the Walther is crap, I just carry it because it's 007's gun. The guy never even saw my character, never had a chance to defend himself, or even to assassinate the guy he had come to kill, because a stealthy vigilante was faster than he was. If that's your idea of "appropriately lethal," then you might consider giving it a try.

Artemas wrote:Exalted: How is it mechanically? I am not totally dead-set against it, it's just that everyone that i've ever heard recommend it basically just say "It's so awesome, you can use a sword the size of a house, and glow like a super-sayan!". Not good enough. As I said, not only can I do that in d&d (through shitty mechanics), but I am also looking for a high lethality, more toned-down game.

Well, Exalted's mechanics are similar to World of Darkness' Storyteller System. You have 7 or 8 health levels. That's it. There's no leveling up to increase your health. Exalts can get magical abilities that increase their health (Ox-Body), but unless you tank... yeah, high-lethality it can definitely be, especially if you're playing as a Mortal or as a Dragon-Blood Exalt, rather than a Solar Exalt.

Playing a Solar Exalt is... well, yeah, you can start off at the beginning of the game being a huge glowing badass with a giant sword who wears heavy plate and thus can shrug off most damage with ease. You can also, entirely without difficulty, play a weak, fragile sneaky sort who can walk up walls and make leaps at almost the speed of sound, or a diplomat who can charm people into following his every word with ease, or... whatever. In Core Exalted, playing as a Solar, you really do start off as a demi-god, but most of your real enemies are just as powerful if not moreso.

Not something where a naked man armed with a pointy stick and wade into a 10,000 man army, and leave a 10,000 man mass grave a couple of hours later. So, long story short, you would need to give me a good pitch to convince me to try it. As I have sort of alluded to earlier, I don't have the time to read through or try a fuckton of different RPGs. I am trying to narrow it down to just a few.

Entirely reasonable, and really, Exalted is not everyone's cup of tea. White Wolf took huge, disparate chunks of mythology, tossed them all together, subverted expectations and then said "Here's this world which is completely fucked up. There's half a dozen massive evil things which want to fuck it up more, and the Gods are up in Heaven chilling out and don't care any more. You're a Man-Turned-Godling, do something about it."

Solar Exalts are super-saiyans. They've been gifted the power of the Unconquered Sun. He's called the Unconquered Sun for a reason: He seriously can't lose at anything. He is a living no-limits fallacy, and Solars are pretty much potentially the most powerful beings in existence. Lunar Exalts are furries. They've been gifted with the power of (surprise) Luna, have an animal spirit form, and can do all sorts of crazy shape-shifting things. Dragon-Blooded are Exalt-Lites. They've got Elemental Powers (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Wood) gifted to them by the Five Elemental Dragons, and generally aren't as strong as other Exalts, though they still make mortals look like bitches. There are several other Exalt types, but those are the main three. There's also the option of playing as a Mortal.

Playing as a Mortal in Exalted is pretty much like trying to play as an NPC class in D&D, starting at level 1, when all your major opponents will be level 5 PCs. And yet, because of the way Exalted is, a lucky or very sneaky mortal could kill a Solar Exalt before the Solar even knew what hit him, because all it takes is one lucky hit and a good damage roll and 8 damage can kill most things easily.

So... I don't know. Perhaps Exalted wouldn't be for you. If you play a Solar, it can very easily get to the "Wipe out entire armies without sweating" stage, especially if you aim heavily for combat. But with a good GM and finding a character type that works for your campaign, you can run very lethal, low-level games, where you're a totally average dude trying to make it in a world where God-like beings routinely try and fuck you over.

But at the moment I'm running a mixed game, with Solars, Lunars and one Dragon-Blooded, and I would have had roughly 6 character deaths by now - half of them on accident, in situations that weren't even meant to be lethal - except one of the members in my party dumped all his magical abilities into being able to instantly heal people's wounds. Exalted has no resurrection spell. None. Not even the most powerful God in all Creation can raise someone from the dead in Exalted, so... yeah, the group is very lucky to have this guy. He's useless in diplomatic situations, in fights, in investigations, in everything, except he's saved the group so many times that he's become considered the most useful member of the group. People were worried when I had to run a session without him.

Ghetto-Edit: And since ShadowDragon got in his post before I hit submit, I'll just reinforce the whole "yes, it's extra lethal" aspect. What he did to that NPC? That NPC could have just as easily done to him. It is very easy for a situation to become deadly, even if you're a Solar Exalt who bitch-slaps lesser Gods for kicks, a regular infantryman with a lance needs only one very lucky shot and he can kill you, irreversibly.

Artemas wrote:Traveller: I've heard good things about this one, and you guys just confirmed it. Can someone go into more detail as the the differences between the various editions?

Classic Traveller is IIRC roll 2d6, add modifier, target is a 7 or 8 for success? Higher or lower depending on circumstances. You gain skills per prior history, which is what DP refers to as chargen. It's fun but the hilarious thing is you can potentially die in chargen. It also leads to the strange result of having geriatric characters depending on how many terms of prior history you want to undertake (the more you do, the more skills you have). The setting is the 3rd Imperium, roughly 1100 years into it. To learn more about the setting (if you feel inclined to) just google it because there's a wiki and other sites do a better job than I could of summarising it. One interesting fact is that you don't 'level' or get XP, what you end up with in chargen is what you're stuck with. Instead of concentrating on leveling, you concentrate instead on story rewards and interactions.

MegaTraveller, and The New Era were the next two systems. I don't know anything about the system mechanics, but both systems are controversial due to the changes they made to the setting (pretty drastic changes, the first has a rebellion that tears apart the setting and shits on the corpse, and the second has a magical computer virus that tears apart the setting plus 1 times by infinity, shits on the corpse, rapes the corpse, then eats it, shits it out, then sets the shit on fire; the setting is now about survival/rebuilding a shattered empire after untold billions of people have died... pretty depressing to say the least)

GURPS Traveller is GURPS, so whatever. The setting continues from CT, and totally and completely ignores MT and TNE.

After that came Traveller 4th Edition, which some people didn't like but I have no idea why. Something to do with the mechanic changes. The setting reverted to the founding of the 3rd Imperium, year 0 so to speak.

Traveller 20 came next, this was a sci-fi version of d20. The designers did their level best to make the conversion as painless as possible, and unlike other d20 systems combat is lethal. Setting was in a different era in the 3rd Imperium. This is like a combination of d20 and CT. It was based on 3rd edition d20 though, so 3.5 or later editions surpass it in some areas. Unlike standard d20 games Traveller encourages multiclassing. Classes are more like 'careers', although still carry the baggage. That said, it's my favourite of the lot.

After T20 came Mongoose Traveller, which as far as I can determine seems to be an updated CT with a facelift, ie it uses the same mechanic of 2d6+mod, target 8, plus or minus depending on difficulty, but it's advanced the rules to include stuff that you couldn't do in CT. Classic is very military-centric. This isn't really surprising because the guys that worked on CT were Vietnam vets who came back and got bored so they made wargames, which eventually evolved into Traveller.

The legend has it there's a 5th edition of Traveller in the works. Such an event would be of momentus proportions supposedly, and would be heralded by a host of seraphim on pillars of fire. Like the rapture and the second coming of christ, it is 'coming soon'.

Any "must haves"? Is the setting necessary, or can it just be dumped into whatever?

Setting is completely unnecessary. Any version of the rules will have system design in place where you can roll step by step and create a star system. Bewarned that random dice rolls can lead to strange results (like a stone age tech level world with tens of billions of people on it breathing a tainted atmosphere unaided). All you really need is a core rulebook in whatever version you want. Considering most of the above are out of print, you're probably stuck with Mongoose Trav, although some of the others should be available as an electronic download. The setting has its quirks, some like it some think its balls. Best look it up on the Traveller wiki and make up your own mind.

(I'm creating my own setting, but that's because I'm a fatty nerd fatty nerd. )

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:]Well, Exalted's mechanics are similar to World of Darkness' Storyteller System. You have 7 or 8 health levels. That's it. There's no leveling up to increase your health. Exalts can get magical abilities that increase their health (Ox-Body), but unless you tank... yeah, high-lethality it can definitely be, especially if you're playing as a Mortal or as a Dragon-Blood Exalt, rather than a Solar Exalt.

Getting extra health levels is, by far, the poorest way to protect yourself from damage, though it is a nice passive way. It works, but even if you have five full purchases of the one that gives you the most health boxes, the one that gives you a -1 and two -2s, that's only 15 HL. Combat in Exalted is extremely deadly - for reference, the total damage I dealt to that guy my character assassinated was over 22 HL of damage (I rolled God of Dice on that one, but I was also using a relatively weak weapon,) so even that wouldn't have saved him.

Entirely reasonable, and really, Exalted is not everyone's cup of tea. White Wolf took huge, disparate chunks of mythology, tossed them all together, subverted expectations and then said "Here's this world which is completely fucked up. There's half a dozen massive evil things which want to fuck it up more, and the Gods are up in Heaven chilling out and don't care any more. You're a Man-Turned-Godling, do something about it."

This is exactly the case. Exalted is not a game wherein you are meant to struggle to the ends of your ability as part of an insignificant juncture of an insignificant war wherein in the grand scheme your own struggles hardly matter. Exalted is a game wherein Solars who are just starting out are expected to be able to walk into a kingdom and own it within a week.

Solar Exalts are super-saiyans. They've been gifted the power of the Unconquered Sun. He's called the Unconquered Sun for a reason: He seriously can't lose at anything. He is a living no-limits fallacy, and Solars are pretty much potentially the most powerful beings in existence. Lunar Exalts are furries. They've been gifted with the power of (surprise) Luna, have an animal spirit form, and can do all sorts of crazy shape-shifting things. Dragon-Blooded are Exalt-Lites. They've got Elemental Powers (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Wood) gifted to them by the Five Elemental Dragons, and generally aren't as strong as other Exalts, though they still make mortals look like bitches. There are several other Exalt types, but those are the main three. There's also the option of playing as a Mortal.

The Dragon-Blooded are the Bitch Exalted, but there are a lot of them. They might be your butter-zone, OP: Their magical powers are individually weak in comparison (as long as you prevent them from learning the Immaculate Martial Arts,) and they have to come up with ridiculous, mass-resource-wielding plans if they want to take down the Celestial Exalts. The Wyld Hunt is the Terrestrial organization which sends out whole armies to hunt down individual Celestials.

The Wyld Hunt doesn't always win.

Playing as a Mortal in Exalted is pretty much like trying to play as an NPC class in D&D, starting at level 1, when all your major opponents will be level 5 PCs. And yet, because of the way Exalted is, a lucky or very sneaky mortal could kill a Solar Exalt before the Solar even knew what hit him, because all it takes is one lucky hit and a good damage roll and 8 damage can kill most things easily.

This is true. Of course, if you try to assassinate a Solar who has a proper paranoia combo, you are one very dead Heroic Mortal - that, or the sheer audacity of attempting to assassinate one of the Chosen of the Sun will get you a Night Caste Exaltation on the spot, which is like that NPC-classed player getting an immediate upgrade to a Heroic-Classed Gestalted level 5 PC.

So... I don't know. Perhaps Exalted wouldn't be for you. If you play a Solar, it can very easily get to the "Wipe out entire armies without sweating" stage, especially if you aim heavily for combat. But with a good GM and finding a character type that works for your campaign, you can run very lethal, low-level games, where you're a totally average dude trying to make it in a world where God-like beings routinely try and fuck you over.

The rub is that, however, totally average dudes who do make it in a world where demigods routinely try to fuck you over are the exact stuff of which those Demigods are made of. Which, if that's how you roll, can be how you roll - more than one ST has had the bright idea to start his PCs off as Heroic Mortals and let them earn Celestial Exaltations in-play.

But at the moment I'm running a mixed game, with Solars, Lunars and one Dragon-Blooded, and I would have had roughly 6 character deaths by now - half of them on accident, in situations that weren't even meant to be lethal - except one of the members in my party dumped all his magical abilities into being able to instantly heal people's wounds. Exalted has no resurrection spell. None. Not even the most powerful God in all Creation can raise someone from the dead in Exalted, so... yeah, the group is very lucky to have this guy. He's useless in diplomatic situations, in fights, in investigations, in everything, except he's saved the group so many times that he's become considered the most useful member of the group. People were worried when I had to run a session without him.

Yeah, I'd consider him the most invaluable member of the group, too.

Ghetto-Edit: And since ShadowDragon got in his post before I hit submit, I'll just reinforce the whole "yes, it's extra lethal" aspect. What he did to that NPC? That NPC could have just as easily done to him. It is very easy for a situation to become deadly, even if you're a Solar Exalt who bitch-slaps lesser Gods for kicks, a regular infantryman with a lance needs only one very lucky shot and he can kill you, irreversibly.

Actually, he couldn't have since I took the basic precaution of knowing the entire Solar Dodge Tree and having most of in - including Reflex Sidestep Technique - in a Paranoia Combo. My character is more or less an invalid for assassination, which is why I hope someone tries. This is something that people new to Exalted find horrific:

There are literally defenses which are very, very cheap, that say "yeah, you evade/block/soak that attack. No, it doesn't matter that it was the Godspear of All-Searing Noon thrown by the pissed-off Unconquered Sun, and is unblockable, undodgeable, and deals infinite health levels of damage." The common caveat in Celestial perfect defenses are that the attack must not be Unexpected, but the Solar Dodge tree has a 1m charm that makes any incoming attack an Expected attack; needless to say, it combos very well with that. This basic sort of paranoia combo will render a PC more or less immune to about 80% of the things out there that could kill him. Integrity-Protecting Prana (5m day-long charm that's just as easy to get) will take out another 15%, and the remaining five percent is in the vein of Environmental sources of harm, which is only slightly more difficult to be ready for. But a starting character who is focused on being immune to everything can be immune to everything.

You need to accept that. That's part and parcel of being the Exalted. Cheap Shots like mine either work spectacularly, or they fail spectacularly. The middle ground is almost nonexistant.

My character is more or less an invalid for assassination, which is why I hope someone tries.

All it takes is one especially sneaky fellow waiting for you to use a charm before making his move. You can't have a combo for everything, after all, or you'd very rapidly run out of WP. But yes, Perfect Defenses and surprise-attack negating Charms can render you effectively immune to all but the most clever of sneak attacks.

*cough*Tensided*cough

No classes, no levels, no one-man-armies, and every hit is a "critical" (in the sense that every hit lands somewhere).

The system used in the Serenity RPG is very adaptable and has interesting concepts (vehicles and items as characters etc). And it has the sci-fi bent built in.

Space 1889 is a different take on sci-fi and a lot of fun if you are into the idea of playing a Victorian era sci-fi game (anyone who says Steampunk will get punched in the throat).

SLA Industries is a dirty sci-fi/cyberpunkish game that I've had some fun with.

Dogs In The Vineyard and Burning Wheel are two systems that can be adapted readily to sci-fi effectively and have interesting and really fun rulesets.

[insert shameless plug] OIMCS (Objective Interim Modern Combat System) is a simple, high lethality basic ruleset that you could easily plug into a sci-fi setting. I'll even give you a free copy if you want.

In games to avoid given your lists of hates (classes, over-powered PCs and shitty themes):

Big Eyes Small Mouth - it's anime. If you dig it, then you'll dig this.

Rifts - classes, ridiculously unbalanced classes and races, and Palladium requires that you buy about 40 books to actually play the game.

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:

My character is more or less an invalid target for assassination, which is why I hope someone tries.

All it takes is one especially sneaky fellow waiting for you to use a charm before making his move. You can't have a combo for everything, after all, or you'd very rapidly run out of WP. But yes, Perfect Defenses and surprise-attack negating Charms can render you effectively immune to all but the most clever of sneak attacks.

That would be the 'less' side of "more or less." Although, I think you may underestimate my capacity for two-die stunts.

There's Starblazer Adventures, it uses the FATE system, and I'll admit I'm slightly biased as I wrote some of the background material in it.

http://www.cubicle-7.com/starblazer/starblazer.php

You can get a preview from there, and if you're interested there's a review, though we all know that reviews don't tell the whole story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtwpKQy- ... qKESwgx_5Y

Note, NOTHING to do with Space Battleship Yamato.

Incidentally, Stofsk, there's one version of Traveller you forgot, Traveller 2300AD, it came out between Megatraveller and New Era.

That's Twilight 2300AD. It has no relation to Traveller's setting, but it may or may not use similar mechanics although it was made by GamesDesign Workshop (the same guys that made Traveller). There was also Twilight 2320AD, which was a T20 tie-in product.

I like Twilight. The setting was a lot better.