TSW: The Game! (split from main thread)

[Chris OFarrell]

So, in universe, when will Activision be releasing Call of Duty 6; The Curbstomb War?

[Ruadhan2300]

So, in universe, when will Activision be releasing Call of Duty 6; The Curbstomb War?

while I have an unbelievable amount of problems with MW2. I still play it more than about 90% of my games...
I'd buy Cod6:TCW in a shot
I wonder what the mission structure would be like on that...
mindyou, I'd hate to be fighting baldricks on that, the Juggernauts on MW2's co-op play were bad enough, taking half a dozen .50 cal rounds to the face before going down....oh, and toting M240s...at least they only come in ones and twos. daemons would be larger groups right? even accounting for the greater prevalence of heavier caliber weaponry, I wouldn't think they'd be fun to take down in groups. plus side. the daemons would have lower firepower. a mid-range electrical zap, and melee weapons. discounting critters like the harpies and "dragons" (name briefly escapes me)

Were I designing the game (and this isn't just me talking out of my ass here, I -am- a student games developer) I'd use the crap in the air in Hell to even the odds a little by forcing players to closer ranges where the daemons would stand a fair chance of getting in a few hits, and where the players can reliably -see- their targets. I imagine the open areas of hell to be essentially a sandstorm of pumice and dust and ash. nearly impossible to breathe and equally hard to see through. oh, and thermal would be nearly useless. in game this might manifest as a low visual range, and possibly wearing a respirator/facemask/goggles, destroying the player's peripheral vision :p
closer environments like gullies and ravines would be much clearer, but consequentially closer quarters.

hm..if I were coming up with the game's story... CoD games often have multiple narrative viewpoints, usually at least one or two of which seem to die. it'd be perfectly in keeping with the story for that death to simply continue the narrative in hell. pulling yourself free of the river styx, evading capture, catching up with other escapees, eventually being resupplied with weapons and gear and continuing the fight, so on and so forth.

*thoughtful silence*

actually, that'd be a pretty interesting feature, where every time you die, you're given the option to simply continue the story in hell. with different consequences for various missions if you chose not to go back and try that level again.
It'd help drive home that death isn't the end

I should write this up for my file...I have a folder on my computer dedicated to games concepts, some of which I write up and present to the class, most of which I don't. half baked ideas most of them. this'd be a good one as an exercise anyway.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

So, in universe, when will Activision be releasing Call of Duty 6; The Curbstomb War?

Screw that. I want to see Shin Megami Tensei: The Human Expeditionary Army. The MegaTen franchise has been pitting humans against demons since the 1980s.

[Stuart]

I wonder what the mission structure would be like on that...
mindyou, I'd hate to be fighting baldricks on that, the Juggernauts on MW2's co-op play were bad enough, taking half a dozen .50 cal rounds to the face before going down....oh, and toting M240s...at least they only come in ones and twos. daemons would be larger groups right? even accounting for the greater prevalence of heavier caliber weaponry, I wouldn't think they'd be fun to take down in groups. plus side. the daemons would have lower firepower. a mid-range electrical zap, and melee weapons. discounting critters like the harpies and "dragons" (name briefly escapes me) Were I designing the game (and this isn't just me talking out of my ass here, I -am- a student games developer) I'd use the crap in the air in Hell to even the odds a little by forcing players to closer ranges where the daemons would stand a fair chance of getting in a few hits, and where the players can reliably -see- their targets. I imagine the open areas of hell to be essentially a sandstorm of pumice and dust and ash. nearly impossible to breathe and equally hard to see through. oh, and thermal would be nearly useless. in game this might manifest as a low visual range, and possibly wearing a respirator/facemask/goggles, destroying the player's peripheral vision :p
closer environments like gullies and ravines would be much clearer, but consequentially closer quarters.

hm..if I were coming up with the game's story... CoD games often have multiple narrative viewpoints, usually at least one or two of which seem to die. it'd be perfectly in keeping with the story for that death to simply continue the narrative in hell. pulling yourself free of the river styx, evading capture, catching up with other escapees, eventually being resupplied with weapons and gear and continuing the fight, so on and so forth.

*thoughtful silence*

actually, that'd be a pretty interesting feature, where every time you die, you're given the option to simply continue the story in hell. with different consequences for various missions if you chose not to go back and try that level again.
It'd help drive home that death isn't the end

I should write this up for my file...I have a folder on my computer dedicated to games concepts, some of which I write up and present to the class, most of which I don't. half baked ideas most of them. this'd be a good one as an exercise anyway.

You know, a TSW game has a lot of promise. As you say, a branched storyline with the player starting off having to fight daemons on Earth (say berserker raids or something) and, as he gets better, he gets more powerful weapons but meets nastier daemons including Gorgons and wyverns etc. If he gets to the end still alive, then he wins one way. But, if he gets killed, he starts off again in Hell, has to escape, meet up with the resistance etc. Once again he has to do good to get the better stuff.

That could be a real seller.

[DKeith2011]

Much as I hate FPS games, I would give serious thought to buying that one.

[Ruadhan2300]

I'd been vaguely thinking that the CoD series has a history of having around half the player characters die. usually spectacularly.
the first Modern Warfare had one of its characters die painfully in the aftermath of a nuclear blast, the opening sequence was a first person perspective of a character being taken to be shot by religious extremists. MW2 had Private Allen (an undercover agent working to expose a terrorist) get shot by said terrorist and die. the list goes on. oh and this ignores the end sequences of both games, in which the player character has been shot/stabbed and is lying on the ground obviously in pain up until they get a chance to deal the deathblow to the main villain of the story.

I was thinking that at the point where the game fades to black in each of these situations, it would be quite reasonable to have that rushing towards a white light bit and come into consciousness just in time to see the river styx rising to meet you...queue the next part of the story.


that was my main thought. the alternative being that should the player die during a mission, it reverts to this second part of the story immediately, without having to go through most of the story first. or alternately, gives you a window saying

----------------------------------------
You have died

Continue -- Restart -- Quit to Main Menu
----------------------------------------

because there are always people who would rather just shuffle off this mortal coil and go for the second part early in the story....though methinks that should this occur in the earliest few missions, before the hellgate has opened up in Iraq, the player wouldn't be likely to be resupplied for a mission or two further.
on the other hand, there are always those players who are determined to go beyond the impossible and survive the entire game without dying....so at some stage there'd be a pre-scripted bit where the character is killed and goes to hell...



Doom ain't got nothing on this

[Uncluttered]

I'd rather have an RTS than an FPS.
Why not use an engine like TASpring and get both.

http://springrts.com/

[Eddie Van Helsing]

You know, a TSW game has a lot of promise. As you say, a branched storyline with the player starting off having to fight daemons on Earth (say berserker raids or something) and, as he gets better, he gets more powerful weapons but meets nastier daemons including Gorgons and wyverns etc. If he gets to the end still alive, then he wins one way. But, if he gets killed, he starts off again in Hell, has to escape, meet up with the resistance etc. Once again he has to do good to get the better stuff.

That could be a real seller.

And now I can hear Mel Brooks yelling, "Merchandising! Merchandising! Merchandising! Where the real money from the novel is made!"

[Bayonet]

Stuart,

You thought this was just going to be a lark of a story. Now you've got two or three new careers cut out for you.

[Gil Hamilton]

You know, a TSW game has a lot of promise. As you say, a branched storyline with the player starting off having to fight daemons on Earth (say berserker raids or something) and, as he gets better, he gets more powerful weapons but meets nastier daemons including Gorgons and wyverns etc. If he gets to the end still alive, then he wins one way. But, if he gets killed, he starts off again in Hell, has to escape, meet up with the resistance etc. Once again he has to do good to get the better stuff.

That could be a real seller.

The character should obviously die in the first scene if it's going to be a first person shooter.

First person shooters ALWAYS contrive some way for the main character lose any gear they logically should have at the very beginning of the game so that the player has to rebuild his arsenal. In Quake II, it was because your drop pod gets shot down on your way to the Asshole Cyborg Homeworld and your equipment gets wrecked when you land. Or in Half Life II, you wake up as a nameless plebe already in the midst of City 17 so you don't have any weapons or gear at all. TSW has a pat built in way to do this.

The main character is some Army private in the Battle of Hit, who starts out with the usual Army soldier gear. This gives starting players some time to adjust to the controls of the game while they have an M-16 to defend themselves; this is the tutorial level. If he makes it to the end of the first scene, there is an Unavoidable Cut Scene where the character dies, has some flashes of some shadowy imagery, then wakes up to find himself up to his nards in a swamp, crucified. You get out, murder a demon, and get his trident. Bam, starting weapon. I'd put him directly into Hell immediately, because having a Second Lifer as the main character also explains the weird phenomena in FPS where the main character gets their health back after a while if they just sit around. It also may provide an explanation about why the main character is alone, for some plot reason.

The game proceeds from there. Since there is no telling how long the main character was out, he could get out of prison after the Resistance has been in contact with Earth so he could believably get his hands on Earth firepower at some point.

[Ascaloth]

So, in universe, when will Activision be releasing Call of Duty 6; The Curbstomb War?

while I have an unbelievable amount of problems with MW2. I still play it more than about 90% of my games...
I'd buy Cod6:TCW in a shot
I wonder what the mission structure would be like on that...
mindyou, I'd hate to be fighting baldricks on that, the Juggernauts on MW2's co-op play were bad enough, taking half a dozen .50 cal rounds to the face before going down....oh, and toting M240s...at least they only come in ones and twos. daemons would be larger groups right? even accounting for the greater prevalence of heavier caliber weaponry, I wouldn't think they'd be fun to take down in groups. plus side. the daemons would have lower firepower. a mid-range electrical zap, and melee weapons. discounting critters like the harpies and "dragons" (name briefly escapes me)

Were I designing the game (and this isn't just me talking out of my ass here, I -am- a student games developer) I'd use the crap in the air in Hell to even the odds a little by forcing players to closer ranges where the daemons would stand a fair chance of getting in a few hits, and where the players can reliably -see- their targets. I imagine the open areas of hell to be essentially a sandstorm of pumice and dust and ash. nearly impossible to breathe and equally hard to see through. oh, and thermal would be nearly useless. in game this might manifest as a low visual range, and possibly wearing a respirator/facemask/goggles, destroying the player's peripheral vision :p
closer environments like gullies and ravines would be much clearer, but consequentially closer quarters.

hm..if I were coming up with the game's story... CoD games often have multiple narrative viewpoints, usually at least one or two of which seem to die. it'd be perfectly in keeping with the story for that death to simply continue the narrative in hell. pulling yourself free of the river styx, evading capture, catching up with other escapees, eventually being resupplied with weapons and gear and continuing the fight, so on and so forth.

*thoughtful silence*

actually, that'd be a pretty interesting feature, where every time you die, you're given the option to simply continue the story in hell. with different consequences for various missions if you chose not to go back and try that level again.
It'd help drive home that death isn't the end

I should write this up for my file...I have a folder on my computer dedicated to games concepts, some of which I write up and present to the class, most of which I don't. half baked ideas most of them. this'd be a good one as an exercise anyway.

While we're at it, does that mean the Battle of Hit is going to be CoD:TCW's Nintendo Hard mission?

[Nematocyst]

I'd love to play a TSW FPS. Specially if it includes that branching storyline. But getting killed and having nothing but a trident afterwards until you find the resistance sounds like boring combat...
How would a FPS set in Pantheocide work? There was no Angel vs infantry combat, and there will never be if the story goes on like this.

a legally minded, opportunistic succubus spawned from Hell is not willing to star a sex tape. Riiiiiight.....

I always felt the impression that standard demons felt squick when treating with succubi. The succubus is not the problem, the other demon is.

[Ascaloth]

I'd love to play a TSW FPS. Specially if it includes that branching storyline. But getting killed and having nothing but a trident afterwards until you find the resistance sounds like boring combat...
How would a FPS set in Pantheocide work? There was no Angel vs infantry combat, and there will never be if the story goes on like this.

I think a Pantheocide game would be more of a combat flight simulator, myself. Imagining being able to operate the YAL-1 Laser to slice up Uriel, before going up in a blaze of glory.

[darksoul]

I'd love to play a TSW FPS. Specially if it includes that branching storyline. But getting killed and having nothing but a trident afterwards until you find the resistance sounds like boring combat...
How would a FPS set in Pantheocide work? There was no Angel vs infantry combat, and there will never be if the story goes on like this.

a legally minded, opportunistic succubus spawned from Hell is not willing to star a sex tape. Riiiiiight.....

I always felt the impression that standard demons felt squick when treating with succubi. The succubus is not the problem, the other demon is.

who said anything about other demon?
possibilities are endless....

[Edward Yee]

actually, that'd be a pretty interesting feature, where every time you die, you're given the option to simply continue the story in hell. with different consequences for various missions if you chose not to go back and try that level again.
It'd help drive home that death isn't the end

I'd tweak this further -- the resultant storyline actually depends on which First-Life mission your character was killed in. For example, if get killed early on, you'll have to make like Jade Kim's team and claw/kill your way out (after getting the trident it's meant to be akin to CoD: Black Ops' "Victor Charlie"), while if you're killed later, the Marines'll pull you out and give you a M114. (Wasn't the M115 its carbine variant?)

While we're at it, does that mean the Battle of Hit is going to be CoD:TCW's Nintendo Hard mission?

Easy explanation -- you've got only 5.56x45mm rounds to start with, and have to run-and-gun (emphasis on the run) your way towards either heavier weapons, or open areas where you can call in support fires. However, I'd have the character participate in Gerry Links' "room clearing," as the turning point where it's time to stop running and start fighting back hard...

Re: gunning down Heavensent Second-Lifers -- yeah, WAY worse than merely rock-throwing, and expect to be dragged before General of the Armies Petraeus. Let's not forget those in the Montmartre Club have personal loyalty to Michael-lan-Michael too.

EDIT: I've been mulling over this question for a while... the sight of a demon being saluted by General of the Armies Petraeus upon presentation of the Medal of Honor would be quite the sight, wouldn't it?

[barricade]

Interesting deal about the idea of a FPS is that if you DO die in the middle of it, and likely there will be a scripted sequence (likely much like Quake 4's) where its inevitable/unavoidable, that once you get back to work, that at anytime you get pulled back to Earth you're on a time-limit, and your health starts dropping like a stone once you go past it. Say...5 minutes and you're fine, but after that, you've got 1 minute to haul ass back to a portal by any means necessary or you experience spontaneous total protonic reversal/you go explosively non-euclidean.

[Deebles]

Yeah... I'd have it so that the plot requires you die at some stage, if you hadn't already, but that you can reach that point via a number of routes

1) Without dying
2) After dying on mission 1
3) After dying on mission 2
etc.

Allows a certain amount of replayability, depending on whether you prefer the "living" or "dead" missions... and maybe some of the toughest missions of all could be the ones you get faced with if you die on mission 1 and try to tough it out rather than restarting (you're unarmed, on your own, and you've just been dropped into a river of fire...)

[Gil Hamilton]

I'd love to play a TSW FPS. Specially if it includes that branching storyline. But getting killed and having nothing but a trident afterwards until you find the resistance sounds like boring combat...
How would a FPS set in Pantheocide work? There was no Angel vs infantry combat, and there will never be if the story goes on like this.

The plot contriving some way to leave you with no gear and a crappy weapon to start with is MOST FPSs. You spend how long in Half-Life 2 with just that crowbar until you find a CP with a gun?

[Eddie Van Helsing]

The plot contriving some way to leave you with no gear and a crappy weapon to start with is MOST FPSs. You spend how long in Half-Life 2 with just that crowbar until you find a CP with a gun?

Gil's right. That Metroid Prime style "taste of power" that you get during the opening stage is the exception, not the rule.

[Nematocyst]

I'd love to play a TSW FPS. Specially if it includes that branching storyline. But getting killed and having nothing but a trident afterwards until you find the resistance sounds like boring combat...
How would a FPS set in Pantheocide work? There was no Angel vs infantry combat, and there will never be if the story goes on like this.

The plot contriving some way to leave you with no gear and a crappy weapon to start with is MOST FPSs. You spend how long in Half-Life 2 with just that crowbar until you find a CP with a gun?

It is easier to find a CP with a gun than a demon with a gun

[Arachnidus]

Just thought of something. A TSW themed Battlefield 2 mod. Discuss.

[Eevin]

actually, that'd be a pretty interesting feature, where every time you die, you're given the option to simply continue the story in hell. with different consequences for various missions if you chose not to go back and try that level again.
It'd help drive home that death isn't the end

I'd tweak this further -- the resultant storyline actually depends on which First-Life mission your character was killed in. For example, if get killed early on, you'll have to make like Jade Kim's team and claw/kill your way out (after getting the trident it's meant to be akin to CoD: Black Ops' "Victor Charlie"), while if you're killed later, the Marines'll pull you out and give you a M114. (Wasn't the M115 its carbine variant?)

Exactly, exactly. You get a linear storyline while you are alive. It gives you lots of story and the like, but it is a railroad. But if you die, well, depending of the moment you end in different scenarios. And of course, you can wander in Hell to get a bunch of side missions, a completely open scenario. You could even get sin points to determine your place in Hell. It would be a perfect game if it was well done.

[Gil Hamilton]

It is easier to find a CP with a gun than a demon with a gun

Yes, obviously, but there is no reason you can't have the main character run into a Resistance guy who has one and have them conveniently separated or have the player bump into one of Caeser's dudes who gives him a gun that the Resistance dropped off that they really don't know how to use. For TSW to work as a game, the Baldricks need to seem to be a credible threat (while still staying true to the spirit of the story). Having the player navigate some ugly ass end of Hell to start with a stolen Baldrick trident before the game starts providing firearms might help to give atmosphere and a sense of danger that you don't get if you start out and stay loaded for bear.

[Werrf]

For TSW to work as a game, the Baldricks need to seem to be a credible threat (while still staying true to the spirit of the story). Having the player navigate some ugly ass end of Hell to start with a stolen Baldrick trident before the game starts providing firearms might help to give atmosphere and a sense of danger that you don't get if you start out and stay loaded for bear.

I'd say that could be solved by having your PC be an infantryman, and have his unit be one of the last to be re-equipped with the heavy anti-baldrick rifles. We can keep the core TSW storyline that the demons are getting their arses handed to them by the heavies, while still keeping them dangerous to the player by keeping his weapons at a low level. The player could even get hints of the heavier weapons being distributed, perhaps pick one up from a soldier killed by a harpy, but keep the tension up by limiting ammo, another real issue from TSW. So the story would be about the demons losing, but still causing grief to one grunt who keeps getting patrol assignments.

[Eddie Van Helsing]

So the story would be about the demons losing, but still causing grief to one grunt who keeps getting patrol assignments.

Maybe we could stick the player in the boots of that asshole sensitive who demanded a seven-figure-salary and a blowjob from Scarlett Johanssen in exchange for opening portals for the HEA. Karma kept pimp-slapping that guy. Oh, wait. He died from the anthrax after Satan got whacked, so that idea probably wouldn't fly.