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Yet again I have been engaged by family on purchasing advice on electronics, and yet again I enlist SDN for help in general criteria:

I'm looking for a flat-panel television and a simple digital camera that can double for video as well.

Television - basically, I want to know what I should be looking for given the very simple criteria of:
* Digital input that includes HDMI
* Ability to hook up a cable box.
* Is, ummmm, flat. Is it even possible to buy an old-school non-flat one anymore?

The TV will be used for cable and possibly to hook up an HTPC+speaker system.
I don't know enough to know what else I should be looking for. I do know that I've seen the things going for ridiculously low prices, and there's gotta be a catch to that. What do I even begin looking for in terms of quality?

Camera:
* Portable
* Basic ability to record video.

Is it even worth being picky here, given that the people using it are not photography enthusiasts? Or has the market reached the point where anything will do for that level?

Help appreciated and thanks.

You'll be hard pressed to find old fashioned bulky TVs these days outside of used sales and bargain stores. Most any HDTV will have HDMI and a coax input so that's pretty much standard. As for value per money, LG and Samsung are probably top dogs here.

I'd say that you really don't have to be picky. I've got a camera that was $200 about 4 years ago and it shoots video. Heck, if you spend that much today, you can find a camera that'll shoot HD video. Other then that, just about every camera I've seen shoots at least 640x480.

As for televisions, other then old used ones, you won't be able to find a CRT television. Heck, most used goods shops won't even take them as donations anymore since they'll end up just paying to get rid of them. Plus I'm not completely sure, but I think you'll be very hard pressed to find one that has a HDMI. If you really dislike LCD televisions, you could try to find a rear projection or a plasma, but both of those have limitations, and again you'd be hard press to find any of those new.

Oh, I have no problem whatsoever with LCD TVs. My question about CRTs was more of an aside

Re: Rear projection. It is my understanding that rear-projection is bulkier and cheaper than LCDs for roughly the same bang-for-the-buck?

As for LCD vs Plasma, I understand there's no real PROBLEM with either these days? And that plasma could be described as simply the high-end part of the market(I know the tech is different, I'm talking about the end result)?

Plasma technically does dark colors better, but it largely boils down to personal preference there. I found LCD superior in display quality but ymmv. (Also, plasmas are generally cheaper than LCD, so I'm not sure I'd call them "high end".)

Plasma also gets you the highest refresh rate, 600 Hz. Fast-moving images will appear to blur slightly at 60 or 120 Hz on an LCD, so if your family likes to watch action movies or sporting events, plasma will be the better solution for approximately the same price.

SCRawl wrote:Plasma also gets you the highest refresh rate, 600 Hz. Fast-moving images will appear to blur slightly at 60 or 120 Hz on an LCD, so if your family likes to watch action movies or sporting events, plasma will be the better solution for approximately the same price.

Pretty much every LCD has motion 'enhancement' (ie, make shit up). Plasma must do the same thing, so its not an inherent advantage.

A Canon S95 or a Panasonice Lumix LX3 should be enough for your digital camera needs.

Faqa wrote:Re: Rear projection. It is my understanding that rear-projection is bulkier and cheaper than LCDs for roughly the same bang-for-the-buck?

That's pretty much it. Cheaper and a large size, though quite a bit lighter. I have a nice 50 inch Samsung LED DLP and it weighs about 50 lbs at most, though much too bulky to move by oneself. Samsung stopped making DLP's about 2 years ago, but you might still be able to find a nice used one. If you decide to go that route, I'd recommend the LED version, that way you don't have to worry about replacing the projection bulb.

Though, if you are thinking about getting a big television, I'd recommend as a projector as an alternative. Easier to move and more versatile.

Other then that, LCD is the way the market is going.

Camera wise - what's your budget, and do you want HD recording capabilities?

For a very good portable camera, i'd reccomend a Panasonic LX5 or Canon S90 or S95. Both wil run to around 400$ though. (But they're the best compact cameras on the market, will last for ages, and have good video capabilities. And they're very small, portable and light).

In what universe is 50lbs for50" light? Mine is 18kgs, my mates' LED is like 12kgs.

Stark wrote:In what universe is 50lbs for50" light? Mine is 18kgs, my mates' LED is like 12kgs.

I'm probably completely wrong about the weight. Serves me right for not actually looking it up.

Okay, after a bit of research (random selection of different tv's on Amazon), my television weights about 60 lbs. Most 50" plasmas weight 60lbs. Most 55" LCDs weight about 70lbs while the 46" ones weight 50 lbs. Of course, there are very light ones, some LED lit LCD for example. Which means my DLP is for all intents and purposes average weight for a television its size. Though, I'd still maintain it is easier to move, given that it has a large flat bottom and won't shatter as a result of twisting forces. Not that any of that matters since DLP fast becoming a dead technology. If you want a projected screen television, get a projector. They do actually weigh a lot less.

Though this reminds me. If you are going to get a large screen LCD, I'd recommend a wall mount or an equivalent. I've run across a lot of LCDs that have fairly unstable bases.

So pick an LCD with a good base? Wall mounts are a bitch if you ever feel like rearranging furniture.

There are tv stands with mounts built in, such as (Random One I found on Amazon) which would be a good idea if you find the television you want, but the base sucks. I wouldn't be surprised if they have mounts you can attach to existing television stands as well.

General Zod wrote:So pick an LCD with a good base? Wall mounts are a bitch if you ever feel like rearranging furniture.

The glass base on my TV weighs more than the TV.

Stark wrote:

General Zod wrote:So pick an LCD with a good base? Wall mounts are a bitch if you ever feel like rearranging furniture.

The glass base on my TV weighs more than the TV.

My base isn't glass, but it's wide, solid and I've never felt any need to replace it with anything else.

I actually like mine. I just can't work out how the base release works so I have to move it together with the TV which is a pain. I don't like the look of the Samsung LED chrome legs style base, though.

SCRawl wrote:Plasma also gets you the highest refresh rate, 600 Hz. Fast-moving images will appear to blur slightly at 60 or 120 Hz on an LCD, so if your family likes to watch action movies or sporting events, plasma will be the better solution for approximately the same price.

That's the 'Subfield drive'

A plasma flashes the image on the screen 10 times per frame, for 600 images per second. It's a massive cheat and having worked in a big box store It's total bullshit.

Tell us the truth! What matters when looking at a television?

TimothyC wrote:

SCRawl wrote:Plasma also gets you the highest refresh rate, 600 Hz. Fast-moving images will appear to blur slightly at 60 or 120 Hz on an LCD, so if your family likes to watch action movies or sporting events, plasma will be the better solution for approximately the same price.

A plasma flashes the image on the screen 10 times per frame, for 600 images per second. It's a massive cheat and having worked in a big box store It's total bullshit.

Pretty much, considering that no video sources I know of have anything higher than a 60 frames per second frame rate. DVDs, Blu-ray, and pretty much everything else is either 24 or 30fps, about the only time you'll see 60 is if you're filming your own videos.

Phantasee wrote:What matters when looking at a television?

Does the picture look good? Can it display realistic flesh tones? Is there decent detail in the shadows and darker areas or does it go straight to black? You'll have to play with the settings a bit since the display models in stores are usually set way too bright with the contrast cranked all the way up.

aerius wrote:

Phantasee wrote:What matters when looking at a television?

Does the picture look good? Can it display realistic flesh tones? Is there decent detail in the shadows and darker areas or does it go straight to black? You'll have to play with the settings a bit since the display models in stores are usually set way too bright with the contrast cranked all the way up.

Quite. Ask the salespeople to change the input to what you normally watch, or even (if you want to see them squirm) an SD signal. Not everything out there is HD, and in my personal opinion SD performance is just as important as HD. If you have the time, bring a USB stick with you and a full 1080p jpeg with a sharp single pixel border to see how the TV displays the borders of the image.

A good color gamut test image is a useful tool as well AVS forum has a good one here..

If you are in a very particular mood, check the TV's sound using a frequency sweep with an MP3 file, like those found here (or a good high quality classical recording).

The flashlight test requires a second person (you have your helper stand where the windows that would cause glare are relative to the TV and you look for glare by standing in a position relative to the set up in your viewing space) can be done without anyone asking what you are doing, but the others might raise the ire of the salespeople.

In stores, the TVs are set for what the company thinks will sell the TV the best, as a customer your job is to put the TV under the sub-optimal conditions it will be in when you view it at home.

Also - think about box size for taking it home. Yes a 60" plasma can technically fit in a Ford Focus, but it's ugly (face down in the back seat, with the screen resting on the seat and the rear headrests, and the front seats all the way forward).