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Now we saw this with the Wii (ie, people complaining that they're all 'kids' games or 'casual' games and demanding Nintendo cater to 'real' gamers) but its way more amusing now that 'real' consoles have moved in the same direction. I have more experience with Kinect so I'll mainly be talking about that side here.

A 360 is a 'hardcore' console, catering to 'real' players with most of the major franchises. Every attempt to branch out to a more casual market (whether or not successful) is met with hostility from nerds. Kinect (and Move) is obviously a very expensive project trying to grab the Wii market which has shown to be huge, and underlying all the nonsense appears to be insecurity. Why are 'real' gamers threatened by this sort of thing? Why is it basically impossible to read anyone talk about Move without phrases like 'flail-em-up' or 'casual' used as an insult? Why was everyone so negative about the idea of a Gears franchise Kinect game while those rumors were flying around?

My girlfriend and I have played most of the Kinect launch games (due to getting one for free by throwing my Wii away) and I just don't understand the negativity. Sure, it's a bit daft and has little application in 'regular' games, but so what? CoD 59 : Explosion isn't going ot be ruined by a few million kids playing with tigers. All the games I've played have been fun and the system 'works' pretty accurately, and I'm probably officially a hardcore gamer. And yet the buzz (especially about Dance Central, probably the best game) is choked with self-conscious fat white people being embarrassed or demanding 'hardcore' applications. Its like, being confronted by something different, they automatically hate it and demand it become what they are used to.

I know a few other SDN guys have Move or Kinect, so I'm curious if any real people have these kind of negative reactions. Bear in mind, this isn't about cost (Kinect is pretty damn expensive) or whatever, but this apparent philosophical dislike it conjures in nerds. Why would your average COD player even care it exists? I know most gamers aren't as open-minded about new gaming experiences as I am, but honestly when 50% of the internet is passing around third-hand nonsense about how horrible something is, it makes me curious.

It´s probably got to do with people being scared of their "scene" vanishing due to a similar thing going mainstream.

It reminds me a lot of the skateboarders back in the 90s who hated (and perhaps still hate) the rollerbladers when rollerblades became popular. Suddently it wasn´t only the "cool" guys who called themselves skaters, suddently there were these other people who put on rollerblades called themselves skaters and even had the gall to wear something different than vans, etnies or DC. Casual skaters you could say.

Maybe that's it - its almost like people are angry or derisive that established consoles would 'go casual'... even though the Wii demonstrates what a huge market that is, quite distinct from the regular 360/PS3 market.

As someone who sees the whole thing as an outsider as I don't own the console: perhaps because the Kinect appears to be a bad joke. Combine that with misplaced tribalism that salm pointed out, you have the "my tribe is doing something stupid" gut feeling. The whole motion control thing looks like just another gimmick and I've read feedback about it that it isn't really that great. A possible undercurrent of semi-logic would be that some of these ps3 players (ie, the whiny and very vocal ones) feel that Sony is doing a mistake.
Of course, in reality, it is just trying to break into a market to make more money.

Forgive me if that isn't the most logical thing to say, but it's midnight and I can't sleep.

Stark, if I may, do yourself a favor and ignore gaming forums (not this one necessarily, I mean stuff like PS3 forums or whatever). With some exceptions, most such forums are a putrid pile of nonsense that I feel ashamed to once contributed to.

here my 2 gil - I'm not buying Kinect, but I don't think it's ZOMG END OF GAMEZ111111oneonelol. It's just not for me. I mean, Dance Central looks really cool, and I'd love to have my very own Skittles to pet and love, but meh. I don't really want to get up to play my games. I'm fat and lazy. It's thumbs or nothing.

All that said - I recognize that Kinect in particular represents a quantum leap in tehcnology application (if not just tech in general) and is a logical progression (Or at least branching off) of the control interface. Ultimately it does make the 360 a more versatile platform, and expands the audience beyond the hardcore.

in short - I *like* the idea of Kinect and I respect it, it's just not my thing.

Here I'm not getting one because it just doesn't have anything on it that interests me. I don't care about getting up or whatever, but I lose interest in most "casual" games rather quickly, and I don't want to spend $180 on an accessory that's just going to gather dust. I could better use it towards the Pro Guitar in RB3 when it's finally released.

EDIT-after-time-limit: Kinect is for 360. >_< Again, I'm not in the best state of mind.

Chardok wrote:here my 2 gil - I'm not buying Kinect, but I don't think it's ZOMG END OF GAMEZ111111oneonelol. It's just not for me. I mean, Dance Central looks really cool, and I'd love to have my very own Skittles to pet and love, but meh. I don't really want to get up to play my games. I'm fat and lazy. It's thumbs or nothing.

All that said - I recognize that Kinect in particular represents a quantum leap in tehcnology application (if not just tech in general) and is a logical progression (Or at least branching off) of the control interface. Ultimately it does make the 360 a more versatile platform, and expands the audience beyond the hardcore.

in short - I *like* the idea of Kinect and I respect it, it's just not my thing.

You're far too rational. You need to be unable to get through a sentence without using the word 'foolish' or 'sweaty'. If its not a controller (or mouse) its inferior and certainly doesn't encourage entirely different kinds of play.

Its sad but I can't be assed playing RB3 since I got Dance Central. :v

Truth be told, I would really like to play Dance Central. But with my two wrecked knees (FU, basketball) I wouldn't make it more than 10 minutes per session before whining like an 8 year old, which would make me lose interest and (as Zod accurately points out) it'll just gather dust :/

Admittedly, I might buy it in the future when it's developed more and the dashboard interface improves, because who DOESN'T want to control that sh!& like Minority Report? That's worth 100.00 bucks to me.

ITT fattynerds who get puffed standing up to get cheetos are angry that games are being made for people who mightn't know ridiculous video game trivia.

I think that's about the end of it.

I'm interested in kinect because of some of the interesting projects that can be done with it. And also Dance Central. BECAUSE.

One thing that would probably get my interest up though, puzzle games. Get me something like Puzzle Quest or even Prof. Layton but with a lot more variety and my interest would go up about 100%. The idea of actually using your hands to solve puzzles is very appealing.

The dash UI for Kinect is probably the weakest element of it so far - every single game does the interface better, and in AU you can't use voice control yet.

Most impressively, Kinectimals tracks both hands separately (options are split between hands) even when you cross your arms or hold things. The biggest limiation I've found so far is that it doesn't handle you turning around very well (turning 90 degrees works fine, but standing with your back to it = it thinks you're facing it). For such a groundbreaking tech its pretty solid, and way less a pain in the ass than the Wii was.

But the internet tells me that having to reach for things in a natural way = INTERFLAILING OMG???

Zod, after using it for 5m I figured pretty much every good DS game should be ported, because it'd work as well or better and not look like dogshit at the same time. Kinect minigames in otherwise regualr games are interesting, so I'm going to rent the Harry Potter game which apparently 'supports' but does not 'require' Kinect.

I just don't care. I didn't even know the Move (obviously I don't own a X360) was out until I walked into EB Games the other day and noticed it (I normally don't look at their PS3 section because its so ludicrously overpriced). But its not for me. I think its a jackass way to enjoy myself. So long as I can play the 'usual' games without it being forced on me. I'm happy. There's not a single Wii/Move/Kinect game I can imagine that is a must play awesome game, as far as I'm concerned. Why bother?

Has anybody played Deca Sports Freedom? If so, how do the controlls work in the Paintball game? Are they good?

Stark wrote:The dash UI for Kinect is probably the weakest element of it so far - every single game does the interface better, and in AU you can't use voice control yet.

Most impressively, Kinectimals tracks both hands separately (options are split between hands) even when you cross your arms or hold things. The biggest limiation I've found so far is that it doesn't handle you turning around very well (turning 90 degrees works fine, but standing with your back to it = it thinks you're facing it). For such a groundbreaking tech its pretty solid, and way less a pain in the ass than the Wii was.

But the internet tells me that having to reach for things in a natural way = INTERFLAILING OMG???

Zod, after using it for 5m I figured pretty much every good DS game should be ported, because it'd work as well or better and not look like dogshit at the same time. Kinect minigames in otherwise regualr games are interesting, so I'm going to rent the Harry Potter game which apparently 'supports' but does not 'require' Kinect.

I'd also like to see a good Persona style JRPG on Kinect, but sadly the 360 is notorious for not having RPGs on it.

If I had a job and the money to buy the Move, I would. I know my wife and my mother in law would love to play on it if there were any semi-decent games like Dance Central or any sports games like WII Sports. I on the other hand would wait until the technology improves to the point that it can sense your every action and translate that into a shooter, fighting or action game. Who wouldn't want to be a dick and freak out by getting a friend and the two of you simulate fellatio in a Halo game. Or hell even actually get or give a blowjob and let everyone see it happen in a game like Halo.

I cannot think of a way Kinect would make sense for a FPS, to be honest. how do you indicate moving forward? lean? what happens when you turn your head? how do you look around? Without some sort of tactile interface, any attempt at a kinect FPS that is not on rails will fail.

Unless it reads your fingers while you hold a virtual controller/mouse

It makes no sense. I think that's an issue with Move launch titles; they're trying to be 'regular' games. They both work together with regualr controllers, but standalone they need a different kind of game.

Maybe it makes sense to combine a controller with the kinect. In one hand you hold a controller similar to the Wii Nunchuck an control the movement. With the other had you do the fighting. A game where you have to throw your weapon and then catch it again, like the disc in Tron, would make sense. Or a game where you can catch the opponents weapons and toss them back at them.

I'm actually surprised they have nothing that uses Kinect + controller, but I guess they're pushing their controllerless gaming business. Just replacing inventory operations with gestures and menus with voice recognition would be awesome.

What is ten times more entertaining than the hardest of hardcore dismissing kinect is the console warriors who spent the last 4 years dismissing motion control as "for bebbies" suddenly jumping on board with Kinect and Move bercause now motion control is awesome because their console of choice is now supporting it. Each claims the inherent superiority of their respective system's choice while deriding the other. Xbots say that move is "just the wii again" and "S still suck" and then go off to play their evolved Eye-toy games and act as though the Kinect voice recognition is somehow something that only Kinect can do and couldn't have been done prior to Kinect. The PS3 ones have funnier mental gymnastics because now they have to jutsify why the Move is awesome but the Wii+ Motion Plus is just for kiddies and is stupid. Mumblings of "1:1" are usually heard. They mock Kinect for their flailing.

People being idiots is nothing new. Did you people see all the bullshit about how "Wii is going to destroy gaming" in the early days? This is no different from that. I'm actually surprised that you are surprised by this.

I'm surprised you're surprised I'm surprised, since I specifically mentioned it in the OP.

The tribalism is amusing, because Kinect is only superfically similar to the Eyetoy and Move is far more sophisticated than the Wii system.

Move uses a camera to track glowing balls and accelerometer / gyro data in the remotes. The Wii uses a camera in each remote to track 2 IR lights on the sensor bar, and then accelerometer / gyro data in the remotes. The Wii + Motion plus is only slightly less accurate than a move controller. The only thing I really like about the Move controllers over Wiimotes is the extra buttons and nicer aesthetics.

Kinect is an order of magnitude more advanced than the eye-toy, but many first-gen titles are by no means using it to its full potential, and instead we're getting shitty minigames and fitness games that are by no means an order of magnitude better than what we saw with the eyetoy games. The real tragedy is that there currently are no games that make use of a regular controller then have the kinect features to supplement them, which is what I think the real strength is for core games w/ Kinect.

Watch the giant bomb quick looks for the kinect games if you have the time, some of them (Deca sports freedom) are pretty hilarious.

adam_grif wrote:Move uses a camera to track glowing balls and accelerometer / gyro data in the remotes. The Wii uses a camera in each remote to track 2 IR lights on the sensor bar, and then accelerometer / gyro data in the remotes. The Wii + Motion plus is only slightly less accurate than a move controller. The only thing I really like about the Move controllers over Wiimotes is the extra buttons and nicer aesthetics.

So you've never used one, then?

adam_grif wrote:Kinect is an order of magnitude more advanced than the eye-toy, but many first-gen titles are by no means using it to its full potential, and instead we're getting shitty minigames and fitness games that are by no means an order of magnitude better than what we saw with the eyetoy games. The real tragedy is that there currently are no games that make use of a regular controller then have the kinect features to supplement them, which is what I think the real strength is for core games w/ Kinect.

So you've never used one, then? I already mentioned on regular game with Kinect support in this very thread.

Watch the giant bomb quick looks for the kinect games if you have the time, some of them (Deca sports freedom) are pretty hilarious.

I have yet to see a single review of any Kinect game that wasn't chock-full of nerd irony except the one of Kinectimals that correctly identified it as an adventure game rather than a pet simulator. The level of analysis around seems to be almost zero - I think this is because the people involved simply can't write anythign original and there's no obvious 'nerd narrative' about this stuff yet.

Reviews are useless and reviewers are troglodytes, who knew?

Hey Chards, my friends and their 4yo son are coming around next week, and I bet he'll instantly engage with all this stuff.

Meh, it's fun in it's odd way. Both need a bit something more as the dance game will allow me to shake my booty. Maybe something more will come of it, and we'll see programmers not make me think this is a fad for 2012.