Dead Space 2: The first one was scarier. (Spoilers)

[General Zod]

So I just finished the game, and for those of you that played the demo you pretty much know what to expect already; altogether it took about ten hours to finish which I guess was a bit longer than the first. The game doesn't really throw much at you in the way of new enemies, so for the most part all of your tactics will work just fine and you won't really need any weapons besides the plasma cutter or the line-gun.

The level structure is hilariously predictable; you go through a few corridors shooting enemies, solve a puzzle, then catch an elevator to the next corridor, and eventually meet up with someone you're trying to meet. Wash and repeat ad nauseum throughout most of the game. It's not really bad per se, but the entire game is basically an exercise in corridor-strolling repetition. There's a few new weapon types but for the most part I didn't really play around with anything but the plasma cutter & line gun unless I ran out of ammo, which happened pretty frequently until the last part of the game. The zero gravity environments are a nice touch though, and they add a bit to the atmosphere.

Speaking of which, once you get to Chapter 14 there's a neat little glitch that lets you get unlimited power nodes. It involves quitting and reloading so it might be a bit grindy but if you're wanting to max out achievements this is an easy way to do it. You could conceivably skip every single power node until this spot and still get all that you need to upgrade everything within half an hour or so. In any case, I'd say don't bother buying the game unless you liked the first one and really want more. Otherwise it's probably going to be a rental for most people. As it is, they leave the ending open enough that there's the possibility of a third game in the works, so don't be surprised to see a Dead Space 3 down the road if this one sells well.

[adam_grif]

I didn't really think either of them was scary but I don't really hold that against the series. If you go in expecting Resident Evil 4 in space that's exactly what you get, and I'm glad that somebody decided to do that since Capcom insisted on fucking up RE5 something horrid. Dead Space 2 is like Dead Space 1 but with a few improvements. Popular sequel is similar to popular original game, the sky is blue, footage at ten.

[Zixinus]

Yeah, a few things improved since the first game. Better controls, the weapons suck less (except the flamethrower), the melee is tiny bit less awkward and now you can take the spikes off dead enemies and throw them around (making kinesis 80% more useful).

However, they toned down the horror even further, despite trying not to. At least you visit places that aren't MEANT to be monster buffets.

The story is a bit better too. Isaac talks (even if only mostly to swear), stuff feels more chaotic, you feel less pushed around (unlike the first game where you just wanted to scream: OUR CONTRACT DOES NOT COVER FIGHTING MONSTERS. WE NEED TO GET OUT!) and the locations are a bit more varied.
Though, it's almost funny how almost everyone opposing Isaac seems to completely ignore the strong connection between the monsters and the Marker. Hell, it makes it pretty clear that the Marker is nothing but a trap for sentient civilizations: it creates a telepathic signal that makes them replicate the thing and eventually kill themselves by monster-overdose.

You even crawl through ducts. That's pretty much all you do in them though. I sort of wished they would include monsters chasing after you in there as they are usually pretty boring (and likely serve only to mask loading times).

I've already finished the game. I was disappointed by the lack of more interesting combat in zero-g but otherwise, the game ended in a satisfying manner.

[Starglider]

IMHO the gameplay has been tightened up, and the encounters made a bit more challenging. The run to the final boss is pretty frantic (at least on Survivalist first playthrough). The artwork is more detailed, and the plot is a little more engaging (the unitologist bitch meeting her end so soon, instead of dogging you for the rest of the game was nice, and the writers did manage to make me uncertain about whether the other female character would survive). The long monster-free segment when you enter the Ishimura was actually quite suspenseful.

IMHO the major problem with the game is the level design. It's extremely linear, the first game at least gave you a vague impression of path choice. Almost all of the game consists of boxy rooms and corridors that are just not interesting combat spaces. In the first game the Ishimura felt like a (relatively) plausible integrated space, the sprawl seems like a random assortment of segments, most of which have a lot of internal repetition, with too many of the open areas locked away behind glass walls. Bioshock is an example of a similar confined techno-city setting with much better level design. I like the increase in engineering-themed puzzle sections, but I miss the little hidden mini-games from the first game (zero-g baseball, shooting gallery etc).

In fact it struck me as a lot like Gears 2 in that there is more colour, more variety, more plot, more scripted segments than the first game - but unfortunately no open areas, no vehicle section, no useful allies and no fights against really large numbers of enemies (also Dead Space 1 didn't suck as much as Gears 1). In all I would say entertaining but nothing special.

[adam_grif]

If we're going to be openly discussing spoilers like you two are, a mod should edit a warning into the thread title.

Something wrong with your PM button? Because this post should have been one. --Lagmonster

[Starglider]

To rag on the level design some more; plausibility took a big hit in this game as well. The solar array was particularly annoying, aside from the difficultly of generating a useful amount of solar power in Saturn orbit, the collectors were ridiculously small, the ejection system was ludicrously elaborate, the computer mainframe was impossibly huge just to run some solar panels etc etc. The Galaxy Quest style random chompers and flame spewing things were much larger, more prominent, and less rationalised than in the first game. The idea that planetcracking was 'unsustainable' and disassembling entire planets couldn't provide enough ore to keep earth's industry fed showed the usual hack sci-fi writer complete lack of appreciation for scale.

[adam_grif]

The idea that planetcracking was 'unsustainable' and disassembling entire planets couldn't provide enough ore to keep earth's industry fed showed the usual hack sci-fi writer complete lack of appreciation for scale.

It could just be a matter of not having enough rocky planets of the right sort within easy reach of their FTL gizmos. Or maybe you just don't appreciate the scale of Earth's industry in Dead Space. DSverse can outproduce The Empire confirmed.

[Starglider]

Or maybe you just don't appreciate the scale of Earth's industry in Dead Space. DSverse can outproduce The Empire confirmed.

Apparently not. What is your source for this? It seems at odds with the setting, AFAIK there's no indication of population in the quadrillions or million-ship fleets flying around.

[adam_grif]

If they're systematically dismantling planets for raw materials, and they still don't have enough, they must be doing something big with it. We have no real idea of the state of human colonization, the size of humanity in general, or anything else. If it's just Earth then yeah it's kind of idiotic for that to be happening, but if there are a hundred stars full of humans complete with billions in orbitals around each star, then the 7 (iirc, with Ishimura being mentioned as the largest) Planet Crackers they have not being able to keep up with demands isn't as insane as it first sounds, given that each crack is a long slow process. There's room for anything in between those two extremes as well.

*shrug*

I guess it's just more productive to say "oh, well there must be a lot of stuff we aren't seeing" than to say "this setting sucks because the writers are so dumb". If someone digs up a source saying it's just Earth and some mining colonies, then fair enough. But I don't recall anything like that off hand. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

[Zixinus]

What's weird is that we are talking about various combinations of elements here. Yeah, some elements like Lithium are sparse on the surface of the Earth, but otherwise you would have to reach a point where the issue isn't resources but RAW resources. Ie, unwillingness to recycle, which kind of sort of chimes with the story: they are looking for a magic thing to fix their problems, despite the fact that the magic thing in question has the very strong tendency to drive everyone around it insane and unleash a plaque that turns people into monsters.
It would sort of makes sense. But that may be giving too much credit to the story.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

I was reluctant to post about it, given our resident trolls, and a general feeling that the first was unliked.

In all, it's a proper iterative sequel to a game that was derided as derivative in the first place. I got what I wanted out of it. Which is to say, an extremely fun 8 hour marathon following the midnight release. (1 sitting, Normal.)

They did try a little too hard with Nichole for the middle part of the game, but "Step 4" was a genuinely good moment. Though step 3 was... fucking wretched.


It's still possible, at least on normal, to run through with just the PC. Though it gets painful at points, and drops stop sustaining you around chapter 10.

Those... torso scorpion ones move ludicrously fast now, so they're no longer a joke.

Pulse Rifle's silly now. Especially with the pack about, since they can only take a few shots.

Multiplayer is a waste. As you level up you unlock new guns for the humans, and general power-ups for both sides. Played a few rounds, which were very even until one guy on the other team unlocked the line-gun. At which point it became a one-sided fight. Humans, baseline, have 1 stasis charge, the PC and the Pulse Rifle. Apparently, they end up with 3 stasis charges.

[General Zod]

Those... torso scorpion ones move ludicrously fast now, so they're no longer a joke.

Just make sure to have plenty of stasis packs and they become incredibly easy. I don't recall ever having to face more than two at a time.

[Dread Not]

Those... torso scorpion ones move ludicrously fast now, so they're no longer a joke.

Just make sure to have plenty of stasis packs and they become incredibly easy. I don't recall ever having to face more than two at a time.

Since stasis regenerates this time around I immediately sold all of my stasis packs first chance I got. Didn't cause any problems for me though I agree, the leapers are a bitch and stasis is the way to go with them.

I personally enjoyed the game though I was hoping for a bit more. I heard several sources quote 12 hours of play time. It took me about 10 and I by no means rushed through it. The multiplayer is the most disappointing part. They would have been much better off with a co-op campaign or even a horde mode.

I appreciate most of the changes. The improvements to kinesis and melee add a good bit of strategy to the combat. Stasis recharging encouraged me to use it more. I liked most of the new enemies, the Pack in particular, but the the cysts... Fuck the cysts. Whose idea were they? I also would have liked to have seen a couple of the old necromorphs a little more. I only recall encountering a handful of dividers and fatties. I enjoyed more of the weapons this time around. I found the ripper much more useful on higher difficulties, though there are still a couple of duds like the seeker rifle.

I have a few gripes with the single player. The difficulty is fucked. The easiest setting is way too easy where you end up with more ammo than you can carry, and the hardest difficulty is far too unforgiving. I mean no checkpoints and 3 saves? I love my Demon's Souls and my Ninja Gaiden, but losing three hours of progress because I didn't notice a damn cyst in the corner? Fuck you! Is anyone masochistic enough to attempt this? I was also irritated how rather than having an increased difficulty require you to blow off more limbs, it instead takes more shots to blow off the same number of limbs. At this point the strategic dismemberment feels barely any more effective than shooting for the head.

And yeah, it's not as scary. The first game wasn't a masterpiece of terror but it still had a couple places that made me jump or panic. The sequel seems to have nothing but gore, and it feels a little childish. I do like that they made the music a little more subdued in necromorph encounters. The way the first game played screeching violins every time the most pitifully weak monsters popped out made it feel like a SyFy horror flick at times.

Overall I don't regret purchasing the game at all. It's good fun and worth a couple playthroughs but I can't help but notice some of the wasted potential.

[Starglider]

but the the cysts... Fuck the cysts. Whose idea were they?

The cysts were obviously added for pacing; there are usually no other enemies around for the cyst-infected sections, so you move slowly and carefully trying to go around them or take them out. This is a different play style that adds a little variety vs the usual run-and-shoot-stuff or solve-engineering-puzzle. Obviously you learn to be alert for their characteristic sound effect after you get blown up a couple of times. This is roughly equivalent to the hopper mines in HL2, the land mines in Fallout 3 etc etc.

The easiest setting is way too easy where you end up with more ammo than you can carry

There are plenty of people who utterly suck at video games, waste ammo gratuitously and miss constantly. The casual setting is for them, which is fine.

and the hardest difficulty is far too unforgiving. I mean no checkpoints and 3 saves?

The hardest setting is for masochist players who get a kick out of it. If you aren't one of those, why would you bother with this setting?

IMHO the only issue with the difficulty was that the final boss fight was disproportionately hard (partially due to the lack of an ammo refill immediately beforehand) and badly designed. It would have been better if the shadow monster things were non-infinite and you had to kill them before Nicole became vulnerable, rather than them being an infinitely-respawning distraction and the battle being just 'headshot Nicole and the marker as quick as you can before the infinitely-spawning-annoyances drain all your health'.

I was also irritated how rather than having an increased difficulty require you to blow off more limbs, it instead takes more shots to blow off the same number of limbs. At this point the strategic dismemberment feels barely any more effective than shooting for the head.

I agree with that.

The first game wasn't a masterpiece of terror but it still had a couple places that made me jump or panic. The sequel seems to have nothing but gore, and it feels a little childish.

Disagree. The sequel makes better use of suspense, in having sections with no monsters that make you genuinely worried what surprise the game is going to spring on you. It makes you care about what happens to Ellie. For me that makes up for the lack of isolation and less realistic environments, so overall the experience was on a par with the first game. Although I agree that the boss fights didn't seem to be as scary as the first game, the giant jumping things just weren't as threatening as the drag tentacles or the 'trapped with a shoggoth in a giant tumble dryer' fight.

[General Zod]

IMHO the only issue with the difficulty was that the final boss fight was disproportionately hard (partially due to the lack of an ammo refill immediately beforehand) and badly designed. It would have been better if the shadow monster things were non-infinite and you had to kill them before Nicole became vulnerable, rather than them being an infinitely-respawning distraction and the battle being just 'headshot Nicole and the marker as quick as you can before the infinitely-spawning-annoyances drain all your health'.

I almost gave up on the section where you were running around in the hallway trying to get away from the regenerator because of no ammo or health drops. Then I got the idea of backtracking to the last store to solve my supply problem. Turns out once you clear an area the necromorphs won't follow you back and nothing respawns. It's kind of amusing to see them crawling back into vents when you walk into the previous room and watch them from the door.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Well, I just finished it. Took me a good 12 hours or so on Casual, but I like to take my time and go back to hoover up health and ammo after I dropped mine off at the safe.

If you're expecting anything revolutionary, sorry. I will say that it could have done with less corridor slogs and more zero-g areas, and I think there was only ONE area, near the beginning, which was vacuum WITHOUT zero-g.

I really, truly had fun in the zero-G environments, flying around at high speeds - especially the one or two areas where you're outright in space and sailing around like a proper spaceman. It's kind of a shame that we didn't have more things like that, and no zero-g open-space boss battles.


One thing I found interesting was that I found myself calling Dana "Kendra." I guess that's pattern recognition at work, and holy mother of fuckballs that moment when Stross slams up against the window with Ellie's eyeball on a screwdriver? I'm torn between that and the moment the madwoman is cooing on that little explosive baby to come to her and gets splattered against the window like someone set off a brick of C4 in a 55-gallon drum of sloppy spaghetti sauce as being the most horrible, gut-wrenching, noooooo moment of Dead Space 2.

Then she stands up behind him, all >:( and hits him with a gigantic pipe. I cheered, but I also wanted to know, "Ellie, why didn't you just pop his fucking head off with the plasma cutter!" I guess they wanted to leave the honor of killing Stross to Isaac. >:)

The ending was tense and frantic, and it was a Spaceman Isaac Clarke flies really, really fast bit, which was just fucking awesome. The real question is: did anyone wait through those fuckballs-long credits? That after-credits line was chilling.



Also, DS2 blew my original theory about the Marker out of the water.

My original theory was that the Marker was a warning, much like how we're trying to grapple with the question of how we warn a potentially less-advanced civilization that arises in the ashes of what once was our world that the places where we stored nuclear waste are dangerous places, not places of honor, with nothing valued being stored nor any great deeds being commemorated.

Basically, that the Marker was sending a simple message: "we, the markers of this marker, considered ourselves a mighty civilization. Encoded on this marker is the DNA sequence of a virulent, extremely dangerous life-form. If you find it, destroy all traces of it." In this, though, it seems to be that, far from repelling necromorphs and being a ward and a warning against them, the Markers are actually designed to create them, and play a crucial role in animating them -as evidenced by the fact that all the necromorphs on the Ishimura collapsed into sludge when the Red Marker of Aegis VII was destroyed.


The most terrifying thing, though, at the end, after the ship completes a flyby of the place where Jupiter was and confirms that nothing has survived, the 'overseer' says "the other twelve marker sites will have to pick up the slack."


Isaac Clarke has his work cut out for him.

[Xon]

One thing which really hurt the plasability was the insane design of the government sector(after that damn stupid solar array/death laser). A single door goes down, and the entire complex gets flooded with necromorphs inside of 5 minutes.

[ShadowDragon8685]

One thing which really hurt the plausibility was the insane design of the government sector(after that damn stupid solar array/death laser). A single door goes down, and the entire complex gets flooded with necromorphs inside of 5 minutes.

Wouldn't you think that a security bulkhead would default, in a power outage, to remaining shut?

And it does seem strange that just because of a lack of light that horde is capable of overrunning that gigantic barricade. I mean, they were literally set up to repel exactly that sort of situation - I doubt that they had a wall-to-wall barricade of riot cops with machine guns just for Isaac.

But hey, suspension of disbelief - like how goddamned stupid Tideman had been. Really, they didn't have time to wall off that side room? Or put a couple guys inside or something? Or even have someone manning the control booth?

Or here's a thought - listening to Isaac - the goddamned survivor of the last time this shit happened - when he says they need to blow up the goddamn Marker.



Oh well. I was glad that Isaac got to Spoiler

kill Tideman. And not Necromorph Tideman - Isaac totally blew the motherfucker away, living and all.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Are the controls still hilariously leaden on the PC version? I played the first game for an hour then gave up because they were so unresponsive it pretty much made doing anything at any speed impossible. That's a problem when hideous pointy space zombies are trying to eat your dustbin-clad face.

[General Zod]

Are the controls still hilariously leaden on the PC version? I played the first game for an hour then gave up because they were so unresponsive it pretty much made doing anything at any speed impossible. That's a problem when hideous pointy space zombies are trying to eat your dustbin-clad face.

Did you use a mouse and keyboard or did you plug in a 360 controller? With a controller it shouldn't be any different from the console version, which handled fine.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Keyboard and mouse. I don't own a 360 controller. I don't own a 360, for that matter.

[General Zod]

Keyboard and mouse. I don't own a 360 controller. I don't own a 360, for that matter.

Ah, couldn't help you then. I've only played the 360 version. (I did buy a wired controller separately just for games on the PC, but eh.)

[Covenant]

Seconding the control issues of the first one. I've played the PS3 version but Isaac handles like a stroke victim and the aiming is painfully slow and sloppy. I've played WW2 tank simulators with smoother and more responsive controls, which isn't a slight against the game as much as it is a statement of "me find it sucky," with regard to their choice of "Make him hard to handle, it'll heighten panic!"

For anyone who is looking for an actually scary game, try Amnesia: The Dark Descent? I wrote a rant about Dead Space and all the things I didn't like and wish they hadn't done, and Amnesia was like a game created solely from the things I said I thought were scarier--and it's terrifying.

[adam_grif]

Reportedly you can use D3D overrider to force triple buffering to remove the mouse lag in the PC version (I use it for other things anyway, but I've never tried for dead space).

[ShadowDragon8685]

DS1 had control issues, yes. DS2 does not; the controls are pretty tight and responsive, and Isaac is pretty easy to handle.