StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Because last time I asked fellow members to recommend me a printer and it worked well, so I thought I would ask again.

This time I am looking for a tablet PC, mainly for work related purposes, but occasionally for personal uses. Most of my computing at home is done via PC, however the tablet is required for mobility so when I go on conferences and holidays, and also I think it will be useful at work in certain situations, like teaching the students. Here are the sort of criteria I am looking for.

1. Any OS will do, whether its windows 7 or android.

2. It needs to be able to read spreadsheets or word processing documents (I use microsoft office programs on my home computer). Preferably the apps to read spreadsheets and word processing file would be inbuilt, otherwise I suppose I can download open office.

3. There must also be a means to transfer these files from my PC to the tablet, eg USB port or if they don't have one, at least let there be some hardware that I can plug my USB drive in and then insert into the tablet.

4. Ability to play multimedia files smoothly, most of which are work related (which I will transfer from my computer). Most of the relevant files are WMV format. I understand that Android has difficulty doing this, but apparently third party chinese made apps can get around this. Otherwise if it can run VLC multimedia, I can install that. I assume windows 7 will take VLC, but I have no idea if Android will since I have zero experience with smart phone apps, as I currently haven't seen the need to get one just yet.

The French made Archos 9 looked nice, but youtube reviews shows that it doesn't play multimedia files so well.

5. Internet access. Duh. So I can trade stock during my lunch break or on holidays.

6. I don't care so much about capacitative vs resistive screens, although if it requires a stylus, it better not be flimsy.

7. Memory storage of at least 16 GB (I estimate this is the minimum I will need, but if I can get more like 32 GB I would certainly consider it).

8. Cost of around $1000 AUD. At current exchange rates $1 AUD = $1 USD. Generally I am looking for something lighter, cheaper than a laptop with only some of the features I require. I am aware that some laptops are cheaper, but my old laptop certainly was more expensive so I think this price range is not unreasonable.

Less important.

1. Ability to read PDF or CBR files. Generally though I can install the relevant programs if it has a USB port.

2. Size of the screen is less important, although a 5 inch screen should be big enough for what I have in mind.

3. Manufacturer is unimportant. I don't care if its Asus, Samsung or some cheap Chinese clone (although they do produce more high end stuff like the Hanvon touchpad). As long as it works for my needs thats fine.

The upcoming Motorola Xoom would be a good bet, I think. There hadn't been an official release date announced yet, but unofficially it comes out the 24th. The WiFi-only model will be $600, while the 3G version (which may be limied to the States, anyway) will be $800. It runs the new tablet-specific version of Android, and has a 10.1" 1280x800 capacitative touchscreen, a 5 MP camera on the back, which can record video in 720p, a 2 MP camera on the front for video calling, and 32 GB of built-in storage, with a MicroSD slot to add up to an additional 32 GB. It also has a dual-core NVIDIA Tegra2 processor clocked at 1 GHz, and 1 GB of DDR2 RAM.

If it's like other Motorola Android devices, it should come with Quickoffice, which can view and edit all Office file types, plus view PDFs. If not, it's 4.99 in the Android Market. I think there's an app in the Market for reading CBRs, too. It has a USB port for connecting it to your computer, just set the USB connection on the tablet to mass storage mode and it will show up as a drive in Windows. It also has a mini HDMI port for connecting it to an HDTV.

As far as media files go, Android can play back WMV files just fine without a third-party app, assuming they use the standard Windows Media codecs. It can also handle h.264 and a few other mainstream codecs natively, but for DivX, XviD, and other such codecs you will need a third-party app.

If you'd like to see if there is an app for anything you want to do, go to http://market.android.com and have a look around.

review of the Xoom

The high price they say might be its Achilles heel. However since this is in my price range I say bring it on to Australia so I can check it out.

I'd say just get an iPad. It's available now and it can do all the things you want. It arguably has the most responsive touch-screen out of any of the tablets on the market and the biggest selection of apps you can hope for.

Ipad II is coming out shortly no?

One silly question. How easy is it to transfer files to an Ipad given it doesn't have a USB port? Presumably it needs blue tooth which strangely enough my PC does not have.

mr friendly guy wrote:Ipad II is coming out shortly no?

They're going to have a press-event on the 2nd, but whether or not it's coming out "soon" is up in the air.

One silly question. How easy is it to transfer files to an Ipad given it doesn't have a USB port? Presumably it needs blue tooth which strangely enough my PC does not have.

Transferring files is just like an iPod or an iPhone. Just use the charging cable to plug it into a PC and drag/drop into the relevant folder or use iTunes.

For productivity use, and since you are already familiar with Open Office and other PC programs, a Windows 7 slate is a much better idea than an Android slate. The Ipad is hopelessly underpowered (256 Mb in 2011? seriously?) and also lacks ports for either SD-cards or USB sticks, since Apple don't want their flock escaping the extortionate storage upgrade pricing. I am very fond of my Win7 slate, but the 4 hour battery life might be an issue for some users. If you can handle a little more weight/bulk the Dell Duo convertible netbook/tablet hybrid looks ideal for mobile productivity use; proper keyboard when you want it, an 8-hour battery life and runs MS-Office, Open Office etc etc.

Starglider wrote:The Ipad is hopelessly underpowered (256 Mb in 2011? seriously?)

Where are you getting the 256mb figure from? I can't find any site that lists that number.

General Zod wrote:

Starglider wrote:The Ipad is hopelessly underpowered (256 Mb in 2011? seriously?)

Where are you getting the 256mb figure from? I can't find any site that lists that number.

Step 15 of this iPad teardown (where they physically disassemble the iPad to find out what makes it tick) says they pulled the part number of the chip to find two 128 MB RAM chips on the mainboard.

Dave wrote:

General Zod wrote:

Starglider wrote:The Ipad is hopelessly underpowered (256 Mb in 2011? seriously?)

Where are you getting the 256mb figure from? I can't find any site that lists that number.

Step 15 of this iPad teardown (where they physically disassemble the iPad to find out what makes it tick) says they pulled the part number of the chip to find two 128 MB RAM chips on the mainboard.

Eh?

Yes, the K4X2 is a Samsung DRAM part number!
o

Decoding the part number shows there is 2Gb of memory inside. This translates into ~128MB of memory per die, for 256 MB total. (NOT 512MB, as we previously reported.)

Yes, the K4X2 is a Samsung DRAM part number!
o

Decoding the part number shows there is 2Gb of memory inside. This translates into ~128MB of memory per die, for 256 MB total. (NOT 512MB, as we previously reported.)

I feel stupid.

What exactly did you search for, Zod? I searched for "ipad ram" and every result on the first page said 256 MB. Or did you seriously think that he truly meant 256 megabits (32 megabytes, for anyone wondering) because he forgot to capitalize the B? The iPad is still woefully underpowered, and mr friendly guy would be better off with a Windows tablet or the Xoom. My pick, if it wasn't clear from my first post, is the Xoom, but then again I have a Droid 2 and love it so I may be a tad biased.

Executor32 wrote:What exactly did you search for, Zod? I searched for "ipad ram" and every result on the first page said 256 MB.

Which is entirely based on the breakdown results since Apple hasn't provided an official number.

Or did you seriously think that he truly meant 256 megabits (32 megabytes, for anyone wondering) because he forgot to capitalize the B?

Now you're just being pedantic.

The iPad is still woefully underpowered, and mr friendly guy would be better off with a Windows tablet or the Xoom.

There's more things to consider than just raw specs when it comes to tablets you know. Especially things like how comfortable the touch-screen is to use and how well the OS makes use of available system resources. If you're concerned about raw power then you probably shouldn't be looking at a tablet.

My view is if you can wait, wait. If you don't like iOS, wait for Honeycomb tablets to come down a little in price, for developers to adapt exsisting more Android apps or make new tablet apps for the layout and overall for the paltform to mature a bit. Should happen in a few months. Also be careful about quality of the screen, I do photography and graphics so I aim for IPS, but even if you're not as picky, from Asus (differs from model to model) or the Chinese tablets I'd check to make sure the brightness and viewing angles are good.

My current daily driver is a jailbroken Nook Color, has a great 1024x600 IPS screen and Android 2.1 (meh). US$250 + shipping service, came out to be about US$300 all things considered (if you're in Aus there might be customs duties, shrug). The 7" form factor has a bit too much scrolling for the A4 business documents I usually deal with and don't see many good reflow options, so I'd stick with 10" tablets for worked related matters. Also has voice-acted kids books!

Although to be honest, where productivity is concerned, the Macbook Air 11.6" is my 'ideal size' - 2.1lbs with CULV, SSD and keyboard (I use a HP Probook 5220, similar to a X201 and that's still too heavy at ~3lbs and twice the MBA's thickness). I don't think I'm that productive with tablets, mostly use them for magazines, books and web browsing.

Have you looked at netbook/tablet hybrids like the Lenovo S10-3t.

I've been watching the Motorola Xoom as well. Looking for that nice in-between portable option between the smartphone (sometimes you just need to get something done that requires a big screen or a lot of writing) and a laptop (which is still big and will be the primary reason why you carry around a backpack or messenger bag). Android 3.0 is interesting because it's designed for Tablets, rather than just a bigger smartphone... iOS isn't the only offender here.

The problem is that the cost is just too high. 800 for the 3G? Seriously? Might as well get the wifi and an Android phone that will act as a 3G hub for the Xoom. It wouldn't cost that much more and is infinitely more preferable.

Engadget had a quick preview for all the upcoming tablets that are equivalent to the Xoom. Lots of options coming up and also the iPad2. My own plan is to wait until there's a bit more clarity on where tablets are going to go... so I probably won't get one until April or May. It's a bit too early adopter still.

General Zod wrote:Which is entirely based on the breakdown results since Apple hasn't provided an official number.

So? Do you believe Apple is deliberately printing false serial numbers on their chips to fool technology sites into under-reporting their hardware specs? In reality the memory limitations are directly and painfully obvious to anyone who develops Ipad / Iphone applications.

There's more things to consider than just raw specs when it comes to tablets you know. Especially things like how comfortable the touch-screen is to use

There is no significant difference in touch performance between different capacitive screens (resistive screens are much more variable). Display resolution, brightness and contrast are another issue.

If you're concerned about raw power then you probably shouldn't be looking at a tablet.

The Ipad is roughly equivalent to a desktop computer from 2000 - 2001. A decent Tegra2 Android tablet e.g. the Xoom is roughly equivalent to a 2004 PC. A decent Windows slate is equivalent to a netbook or about a 2005 desktop. My tablet is approximately 50 times slower than my desktop PC but it still has sufficient power to run OpenOffice and Visual Studio just fine, the Ipad does not; this is not a question of 'raw power' it is 'enough power to be actually useful'. The Duo obviously has the additional advantage of the fold-out physical keyboard which will be better than any conceivable on-screen keyboard for productivity use.

Starglider wrote: So? Do you believe Apple is deliberately printing false serial numbers on their chips to fool technology sites into under-reporting their hardware specs? In reality the memory limitations are directly and painfully obvious to anyone who develops Ipad / Iphone applications.

Since the OP doesn't give a shit about developing I'm not sure how that's relevant. In any case the breakdown article said it has 2gb of memory inside with 128mb per die.

There is no significant difference in touch performance between different capacitive screens (resistive screens are much more variable). Display resolution, brightness and contrast are another issue.

I used the ViewSonic G at officedepot the other day. It has a capacitive screen and frankly it was awful. Claiming that there's no significant difference is just incorrect.

The Ipad is roughly equivalent to a desktop computer from 2000 - 2001. A decent Tegra2 Android tablet e.g. the Xoom is roughly equivalent to a 2004 PC. A decent Windows slate is equivalent to a netbook or about a 2005 desktop. My tablet is approximately 50 times slower than my desktop PC but it still has sufficient power to run OpenOffice and Visual Studio just fine, the Ipad does not; this is not a question of 'raw power' it is 'enough power to be actually useful'. The Duo obviously has the additional advantage of the fold-out physical keyboard which will be better than any conceivable on-screen keyboard for productivity use.

"Actually useful" is a hilariously subjective term. Since the iPad can do everything the OP wants without any problems it's perfectly useful. If you're using it on the go alot, a physical keyboard is probably not very practical.

General Zod wrote:"Actually useful" is a hilariously subjective term. Since the iPad can do everything the OP wants without any problems it's perfectly useful. If you're using it on the go alot, a physical keyboard is probably not very practical.

Not quite. He wants WMV-playback, which the iPad does not feature. For that he'll either need to convert or find himself a streaming solution like Air Video

Zixinus wrote:Have you looked at netbook/tablet hybrids like the Lenovo S10-3t.

Yes. I can see how it might be popular with some consumers, however I am sort of looking for something cheaper than the laptops I buy, but lighter as well. The fact that apple and android come with certain downloadable apps is a plus, but not necessary enough to sway my me to buy them, if a windows tablet can do what I want for a cheaper price.

Jawawithagun wrote:Not quite. He wants WMV-playback, which the iPad does not feature. For that he'll either need to convert or find himself a streaming solution like Air Video

Having only recently started keeping up with Android news, it didn't occur to me that WMV playback might not be available. Reminds me of when I just moved over to Mac back in '05, and the application scene was neither mature nor was I up to speed with all the solutions.

However, I would expect that VLC for Android is coming soon. A quick google search yielded this statement from the lead developer stating that they're nearly there, and this update complaining about implementation complications and likely unstable builds that will be initially released.

No surprise, given that Android is still a relatively new platform. I guess again, we're talking about early adopter dangers here. This only reinforces my own desire to hold off for a few more months to see where all the new tablets end up.

General Zod wrote:

Starglider wrote:So? Do you believe Apple is deliberately printing false serial numbers on their chips to fool technology sites into under-reporting their hardware specs? In reality the memory limitations are directly and painfully obvious to anyone who develops Ipad / Iphone applications.

Since the OP doesn't give a shit about developing I'm not sure how that's relevant.

The limitation applies to all applications that the platform runs, not trying to develop on the Ipad directly (which is pretty much impossible; all software is written on real computers and downloaded to the device).

In any case the breakdown article said it has 2gb of memory inside with 128mb per die.

Mb/MB typo aside, 256 megabytes is a serious limitation, compared to the 1024 to 2048 megabytes that decent tablets (e.g. the Xoom, WinSlate) have. The CPU and graphics are slow as well but that's mostly relevant for playing games.

There is no significant difference in touch performance between different capacitive screens (resistive screens are much more variable). Display resolution, brightness and contrast are another issue.

I used the ViewSonic G at officedepot the other day. It has a capacitive screen and frankly it was awful. Claiming that there's no significant difference is just incorrect.

I haven't used that specific device, but given that the hardware design of capacitive screens has very little variance between manufacturers it was probably a software issue.

Starglider wrote:Mb/MB typo aside, 256 megabytes is a serious limitation, compared to the 1024 to 2048 megabytes that decent tablets (e.g. the Xoom, WinSlate) have. The CPU and graphics are slow as well but that's mostly relevant for playing games.

I didn't notice any specific slowdowns when I got to use an iPad, the OS makes use of the available hardware very well. Considering how much more expensive the Xoom is it might be a factor, and we don't know what kind of specs the iPad 2 will have yet, which is likely going to be a fair bit more powerful.

I haven't used that specific device, but given that the hardware design of capacitive screens has very little variance between manufacturers it was probably a software issue.

It was running Android 2. something. Most tablets out there use some variation of Android which just doesn't quite have the responsiveness as iOS.

Considering that a 32GB iPad with 3G, about the closest you'll get in terms of specs to the Xoom, is $729, the price difference isn't actually all that much. When you remove 3G from the equation, there's no price difference at all, as the 32GB WiFi-only versions of both are or will be $599.

Elessar wrote:

Jawawithagun wrote:Not quite. He wants WMV-playback, which the iPad does not feature. For that he'll either need to convert or find himself a streaming solution like Air Video

Having only recently started keeping up with Android news, it didn't occur to me that WMV playback might not be available. Reminds me of when I just moved over to Mac back in '05, and the application scene was neither mature nor was I up to speed with all the solutions.

However, I would expect that VLC for Android is coming soon. A quick google search yielded this statement from the lead developer stating that they're nearly there, and this update complaining about implementation complications and likely unstable builds that will be initially released.

No surprise, given that Android is still a relatively new platform. I guess again, we're talking about early adopter dangers here. This only reinforces my own desire to hold off for a few more months to see where all the new tablets end up.

One teeny tinsy problem though - the iPad does NOT run Android.