DOW2: Retribution thoughts

[Lonestar]

Just loaded the game, and played the first 2 levels of the SM Campaign. There are no longer any "Hero Squads", just individual heroes, with the ability to call in units(tactical squads, devastators, etc) as you unlock them as the game progresses. You play as Diomedes, but there is something off with his voice(and the voice of the Force Commander unit, for that matter), and Diomedes is a generic FC-looking unit, his model from Chaos Rising appears to have used for "The Ancient", a veteran honor guard sergeant that doesn't say anything and is a hero unit. Techmarine Martellus and Scout Cyrus are the other two hero units(?).

After the first two missions I loaded the IG Campaign and...the first two missions are exactly the same for them, except the first mission had Tyranids instead of the Black Legion as the enemy. Map was the same, goals were the same, events in the mission were the same...I'm in the bridge between mission 1&2, and it looks as if the Mission 2 is exactly the same as the SM mission, right down to traitor guard being the enemy.

FWIW the second mission is looking for a "Teleportarium", a DAoT teleporter that allows travel between planets without using spaceships. Huh! Turns out the Emperor was re-inventing the wheel when he was building a webway access point!

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Of course the campaigns are based on the same missions. It's a $30 expansion pack with a new faction, new maps, new last stand features, and a campaign system with heroes and dialog for all 6 races. I don't know what you were expecting. I've started a Guard, Marine, and Ork campaign, and yes the maps and general flow of the missions are the same, but the characters interact differently. Think of it as a branching choose your own adventure kind of deal. Like picking a race and class in a video ga -- oh wait.

But I have no idea why they chose fucking Martellus and Cyrus. If you go hardcore pure in Chaos Rising, Martellus is the traitor and you cleanse him. Permanently. And Cyrus is the most irritating, loathsome douchebag of a character ever to taint a game with his presence.

The Orks are awesome, though. Kaptin Bluddflagg sounds like Captain Barbossa got turned into an Ork. He also fancies witchhunter hats.

Last Stand stuff is cool too. One measly general kind of sucks. Three generals playing together is an unstoppable juggernaught of the Emperor's wrath.

[Lonestar]

Well, Relic was talking about how Kickin' Rad their single player campaign was, and, uh...well I hope it branches out as the game progresses(in fact I know it will, because someone posted what happens to Angelos on Lexicanum already).

My Hero unit of choice in Last Stand is a SM Captain(with Deathwatch scheme...woot), I haven't tried the IG General yet...how is it?

By the by, Steam Handle is BaronBucher.

[Nephtys]

So... what does the Lord General even do in Last Stand? All I see is a flimsy mortal being tossed around and horribly murdered, waiting for a teammate to revive.

[Lonestar]

So... what does the Lord General even do in Last Stand? All I see is a flimsy mortal being tossed around and horribly murdered, waiting for a teammate to revive.

I played two games of Last Stand tonight before I went to work, there was a Lord General who was already at level 6 and he could call in IG squads and turrets. He would then hide in a building with his flamer as he was surrounded by the enemy.

[xthetenth]

I played through the campaign as Guard, and damn if there aren't a few hilariously broken things out there. First one I can think of is the Honor Guard Stormtroopers that you can sub in for the Inquisitor (you can sub in Honor Guard units for any characters other than the main one). Pinning with the sheer fire rate of five hotshot lasguns is ridiculous. It's basically a faster acting heavy bolter team with no setup time. Later on the Inquisitor gets some beautiful powers though. The real piece of magic, though is the lord general and his upgrade that ups units' rate of fire. You'd expect this to be barely noticeable, and for the most part it is since it just changes reloads and not refire rates from what I can tell. However, it works on Leman Russes. Put him next to one and even a vanquisher will have the sheer rate of fire of an autocannon. They will go from dedicated vehicle killers to jacks of all trades through sheer weight of fire. I pretty much firing squadded the final boss.

Broken? Yes.
Awesome? Fuck yes.

Next up I think I'll try an Eldar campaign where I don't buy any non-hero units I don't have to. Should be interesting.

Also, there are tons of relatively funny references in this, and it seems that Relic's caught on to the whole blood magpies thing (seriously, look at all the stuff from other chapters that's ended up with them, one has to wonder how they got it).

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

My Steam name is BCGaius.

The general is interesting. Early on, he sucks. Hard. Especially all on his lonesome.

The general comes into his own when you get with two other dudes also playing general. I was in such a party. By wave 8 or so (zoanthropes) we moved up into the upper right corner and dug in. We were each using heavy bolter turrets, so we popped all three down along the gate to keep it open, then we sat in the indestructible green cover there. The two other guys summoned their Catachan squads, and I summoned my Guardsmen squad, so we had an entire army camped up in one corner of the map. Then one guy would run around with his flamer dealing with melees while me and the other guy sat there with our sniper rifles, 1-2-shotting most of the nasty boss critters. We did wave 16 (mirror) in about 5 seconds flat. We got to the carnifex wave easily before dying more to bad luck than being overwhelmed.

[Nephtys]

Yeah, I find it really funny how the Blood Ravens 'just happen' to have valuable artifacts from other chapters. I have a Bolter used by the Imperial Fists, that 'just happened' to have been found on a desolate battlefield. Also, Martellus is now wearing one of the psi-shielded armors used by a Grey Knight who died at Lorn V against the Necrons. Wait. How'd the Blood Ravens get their hands on a battle involving the Imperial Guard and Ultramarines?

[Lonestar]

Yeah, I find it really funny how the Blood Ravens 'just happen' to have valuable artifacts from other chapters. I have a Bolter used by the Imperial Fists, that 'just happened' to have been found on a desolate battlefield. Also, Martellus is now wearing one of the psi-shielded armors used by a Grey Knight who died at Lorn V against the Necrons. Wait. How'd the Blood Ravens get their hands on a battle involving the Imperial Guard and Ultramarines?

In one of the expansions for DoW1 one of the artefacts the FC could acquire was a melee weapon owned by Dorn. Random vaulable artifacts are just something the DR do.

Knowledge is power, guard it well.

(Also pretty sure the GK were not at Lorn V, or if they were they were fighting the World Eaters, not the Necrons)

[xthetenth]

Still, the sheer amount given the amount of wargear that'd nominally be needed to equip a chapter is already looking odd, and this is for one of the lower ranking companies, theoretically after the older commanders have gotten their pick. Even then you get stuff like armor from the Custodes. How do you get armor from the Custodes? They don't fight, and I doubt they hand out their armor all that often.

[Mr. Coffee]

I think it's Cyrus and the 10th company doing this shit. Seriously, Cyrus is a shady looking little fucker, so it really wouldn't suprise me if one of the first thing he teaches initiates is to steal anything that isn't nailed down (and if it is nailed down then go fetch Martellus to pry it up). Like after any battle the Blood Ravens are in where they fight along side another chapter theres dozens of scouts walking around picking up wargear and muttering "anyone drop this?" and chucking it into a bag when no one answers.

Here's just some of the weapons these guys have been "gifted" with from other chapters

Arbites: 6 shotguns
SoB: 3 flamers, 1 bolter
Ultramarines: 1 bolter, 1 sniper rifle
Imperial Fists: 2 Thunder Hammers, 1 Bolt Pistol
Space Wolves: 4 Power Axes
Blood Angels: 1 Flamer, 1 Bolt Pistol, 1 Chain Sword
Dark Angels: 1 Sniper Rifle, 1 Assault Cannon, 1 Heavy Bolter, 2 Power Fists, 1 Plasma Pistol
Flesh Tearers: 1 Chainsword
Salamanders: 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Hvy Flamer, 1 Bolter, 1 Plasma Cannon
Black Templar: 1 Power Fist
Crimson Fists: 2 Power Fists
White Scars: 1 Power Axe
Ad Mech: 1 Plasma Cannon, 1 Power Sword, 1 Power Fist, 1 Missile Launcher
Deathwatch: 1 Heavy Bolter, 1 Plasma Pistol, 1 Chainsword
Inquisition: 1 Bolt Pistol, 1 Plasma Cannon
Custodes: 1 Heavy Flamer

It's either they steal it or they make shit, try to give it to another chapter, the other chapter says "fuck off" and then they Blood Ravens shrug and call wahtever it was a fucking holy relic.

Penitence of the Fallen
This specially-modified Chainsword is inlaid with six black orbs along its blade, and was named by the Blood Ravens' Master of the Forge in honor of the Dark Angels ceaseless crusade against traitors. Upon hearing of this weapon's existence, Supreme Grand Master Azrael himself transmitted a message via astropath to Terra proclaiming that he had "no idea what those fucking Blood Ravens are talking about," and that they were probably Heretics.

Seriously, love the new game, but Relic... Guys... Dudes, seriously... Stop raping the fucking fluff you assholes!

[White Haven]

That explains Isador in the first game, I suppose. It wasn't Sindri who headfucked him, Cyrus just wandered by and passed him Ahriman's personal force staff.

[Ugolino]

Penitence of the Fallen is a joke, and not in the actual game.

Any chance of campaign screenshots?

[Hawkwings]

I think I read in a fluff source that the Custodes rotate out to go in to active combat alongside Space Marine chapters, to stretch their legs so to speak.

[Mr. Coffee]

Penitence of the Fallen is a joke, and not in the actual game.

No shit? You're fuckin' with me, ain't ya? I mean, I never would have guessed that. Wow, I stand in awe of the intellect that could have spotted such a thing! Whoa... My mind is blown. Ears are fuckin' bleeding, man. [/sarcasm]

Any chance of campaign screenshots?

Here's a whole bunch of them just one click away...

[xthetenth]

Oh dear, that's half of what you need to equip a company. Not well, mind, but do they even need their own weapons for their elites with all that blinged out stuff? It's even worse with Chaos rising (I'm nearly certain that list doesn't include it), you get a lot more templar stuff, including a High Marshal's thunder hammer IIRC, and Marneus Calgar's bolter from when he was a tactical marine. How do they get this stuff?

[Molyneux]

My Steam name is BCGaius.

The general is interesting. Early on, he sucks. Hard. Especially all on his lonesome.

The general comes into his own when you get with two other dudes also playing general. I was in such a party. By wave 8 or so (zoanthropes) we moved up into the upper right corner and dug in. We were each using heavy bolter turrets, so we popped all three down along the gate to keep it open, then we sat in the indestructible green cover there. The two other guys summoned their Catachan squads, and I summoned my Guardsmen squad, so we had an entire army camped up in one corner of the map. Then one guy would run around with his flamer dealing with melees while me and the other guy sat there with our sniper rifles, 1-2-shotting most of the nasty boss critters. We did wave 16 (mirror) in about 5 seconds flat. We got to the carnifex wave easily before dying more to bad luck than being overwhelmed.

I'm afraid Steam can't find anyone by that name.
My Steam name should be "greymav", by the way.
I have DOW: Ret but I haven't yet played it, as I still want to play through DoW2 first.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'm in the SDN group if the search doesn't work.

[Sinewmire]

Of course the campaigns are based on the same missions. It's a $30 expansion pack with a new faction, new maps, new last stand features, and a campaign system with heroes and dialog for all 6 races. I don't know what you were expecting. I've started a Guard, Marine, and Ork campaign, and yes the maps and general flow of the missions are the same, but the characters interact differently. Think of it as a branching choose your own adventure kind of deal. Like picking a race and class in a video ga -- oh wait.

Fair enough. Let's look at Relic's previous Dawn Of War expansion Packs.

Winter Assault - new race, all new maps, two full campaigns (Eldar/Guard vs Orks/Chaos) with variant endings depending on your choice of victor.

Dark Crusade - two new races, all new maps, all new open-ended risk-style campaign with all new scripted story battles Intos and Outros for each individual race as well as introducing the Wargear unlocks in DoW.

Soulstorm - two new races, some other stuff, never bought it.

So where does "Of course the campaigns are based on the same missions." come from? When did expectations get so low?

[Samuel]

So where does "Of course the campaigns are based on the same missions." come from? When did expectations get so low?

You mean exactly like Soulstorm and Dark Crusade? Soulstorm had 9 unique missions and the rest were glorified skirmishes. Dark Crusade had 10 unique missions and the rest were skirmishes.

[Vendetta]

Winter Assault - new race, all new maps, two full campaigns (Eldar/Guard vs Orks/Chaos) with variant endings depending on your choice of victor.

Except there were only 5 missions in each of those campaigns, and the last two missions were basically the same in both campaigns. So there were only actually 8 new campaign missions split between four races.

Dawn of War/Soulstorm had all the same missions with whichever race you chose, the only thing that would really change was your start location on the risk map and therefore the order you tackled the same missions in. (which only really mattered for the skirmish ones, who you faced as weakies and who you faced ramped up)

Quite frankly, it's not realistic to expect a fully unique campaign for each of six races, especially in an expansion pack (albeit a standalone one). It simply takes too much time and money to create the assets to fill those campaigns, it was never going to happen. The best you could get is the risk map back and therefore a slight reordering of the missions.

[Kojiro]

I love the ork. He's comedy gold and worth playing for his dialogue alone. That and the ork with the grappling hook is awesome.

A friend and I are about 9 missions in and it's starting to get a little easy, which is disappointing. It seems Relic think the only way to make something harder is up the health/damage on things but it's incidental at this point. Free dreadnoughts are just alittle too... well free.

I haven't done any last stand yet but then I haven't beaten the first one yet. Anyone got any good ideas for how to beat level 19?

[xthetenth]

I've found that a few of the campaigns have some seriously funny stuff. The Lord General is damn funny, it's like someone took a victorian pulp novel great white hunter archetype, and plopped him into 40k and gave him a bunch of medals and some men to lead. You really expect him to be carrying a teacup in his off hand as he takes potshots with his sniper rifle, and he actually talks about taking the Hive Tyrant's head as a trophy, and it mentions that he'll be putting one of the sniper rifles into his collection after the campaign. Some of the stuff with him and Merrick is pretty damn good too. Finally, there's the aforementioned Leman Russ mad minute trick to take the crazy into the gameplay.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I haven't done any last stand yet but then I haven't beaten the first one yet. Anyone got any good ideas for how to beat level 19?

Get a good team, heh.

Good things to have: A tank-built Space Marine (bolt pistol, chainsword, health/armor upgrades, and jumppack), group-teleport Farseer, Sorceror with maxed-out Let the Galaxy Burn, and Generals with turrets and troops to spam.

Then sit in the upper right corner starting at about wave 8 or so (i.e., when it starts to get dangerous). A Farseer, SM, or Mekboy can zip around in case of emergency and kite the enemies in order to rez anyone who goes down. Other than that, just camp the corner and if your team is good, you'll get to wave 20.

[PainRack]

Yeah, I find it really funny how the Blood Ravens 'just happen' to have valuable artifacts from other chapters. I have a Bolter used by the Imperial Fists, that 'just happened' to have been found on a desolate battlefield. Also, Martellus is now wearing one of the psi-shielded armors used by a Grey Knight who died at Lorn V against the Necrons. Wait. How'd the Blood Ravens get their hands on a battle involving the Imperial Guard and Ultramarines?

Gabriel Angelos fought at Lorn V against the Necrons along with the Eldar.