StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The only reason I thought people got excited for directs ports are, so they can play a game they've always wanted to play (but couldn't) on the console they have. But its like you've played both of these games already. I saw Mario 64 DS as something to get new generation into Mario. That doesn't seem to be the case with Zelda and Star Fox, I don't get the whole "I'll get a 3DS when Zelda comes out", I mean the console selling game for you is the one you played over 10 years ago? I just don't get it. If anything I would've been the most excited for Kid Icarus: Uprising.

I can't speak for the 3DS (as 3D doesn't work for me), but I bought a DS a few years back specifically for Final Fantasy and Crono Trigger remakes.

As for why: some games just have that kind of longevity for people. And the replay value on some of these games is fantastic. A few years ago, I went and replayed Super Metroid, Shadowrun (Genesis), Link to the Past, and a slew of other games from my younger years. They were fresh considering the time gap involved.

Just like there's a market for Total Conversions or ports like Goldeneye Source, the Dark Forces Project, The Ur-Quan Masters: some people really enjoyed the game but can no longer run it on their PC or don't own the original console it came with. I still have my N64 with Mario and OoT, but it's one giant blob on a 65" DLP.

That, and many actual sequels suck ass:
Bionic Commando
Final Fantasy 12
Shadowrun (360)

People are getting hyped up for the same reason that people got hyped up about the Game Boy Advance being able to play remakes of SNES games - the chance to play an enhanced version of a beloved game from your childhood in a portable package. It's pure nostalgia, there's really no point attempting to perform that much of a logical analysis of the situation.

Plus, let's face it; the majority of PSX, N64 and Saturn games look like shit to modern eyes, in a way that wasn't as much of a problem with the SNES -> GBA remakes. Better graphics and 3D makes the package even more appealing, just so long as they don't screw up the gameplay mechanics.

Yeah, it's just nostalgia to buy a new platform to play an old game. At least when the Wii offered old games it was in a downloadable format with added conveniences. Personally, as someone who never really enjoyed Ocarina of Time when it came out, the idea seems absurd--but you'd need to explain the appeal of Ocarina first anyway. It just hit something with a lot of people, so there you have it. Star Fox in 3D might be a lot of fun though. I'd still never get a 3DS.

OoT 3D is an enhanced graphics port of one of the most beloved and well recieved games of all time. It's also got Master Quest content included on the cart for a second run, and unconfirmed extra content on top of that. They're redesigning the water temple to make it less frustrating according to interviews, too.

I haven't seen anybody very excited for Star Fox 64 3DS, however.

For me, I bought the 3DS based on potential. None of the launch titles appealed to me, the first game I will purchase will be OoT 3D. After that I'm also wanting the port of Metal Gear Solid 3 (my PS2 version's disc is scratched beyond use thanks to a jerkass who borrowed it from me) and the new Resident Evil game. Those three games are good enough to justify the purchase, but as with all systems it's the games that come out 2-3 years into it's life that you didn't expect that end up being your favorites.

i wanted a 3ds pretty hard. but the first time i actually saw one in use, it was an instant fucking migraine.

considering that ocarina tops half the 'greatest game of all time' lists i have seen, i can't see how it would be surprising people would want to play it again, with enhanced graphics and extra content, in 3d. to me starfox seems one of the few remakes that would really gain something with the 3d effect, so that makes perfect sense as well. where's the confusion?

Am I the only person who didn't find the Water Temple frustrating? I thought it was one of the best in the game, especially the misty lake with Shadow Link.

Bounty wrote:Am I the only person who didn't find the Water Temple frustrating? I thought it was one of the best in the game, especially the misty lake with Shadow Link.

There are some people who didn't, but they are a minority. Also, Shadow Link fight was poorly designed IMO. It's not at all clear what you have to do to beat him, I ended up doing some exploit with the megaton hammer after I died 5 times. You're supposed to use magic but I always ran out before the fight was over, even with a full bar.

I just stuffed bombs in his face.

I found the Water Temple frustrating, but good nonetheless: heroes should have some difficult challenges to confront, after all. I didn't lose enough times to reach the "this breaks my suspension of disbelief" level, so maybe I found it less frustrating than some did.

On a more general note, I have heard a lot of people comment that gameplay in 1990s-vintage games was genuinely better than in some of their modern counterparts. Granted the graphics were shit by modern standards, but they were still good enough to evoke reality, and the limited graphics forced the game designers to concentrate more on the experience of gameplay itself, and on writing a compelling story.

Now, you have to take that and make appropriate subtractions for nostalgia: there are some games whose stories I rather like that other people would say stink, usually because I played them as a child.

But even then, we see certain games enjoying popularity even after multiple generations of other games have come and gone trying to compete with them. The assurance that these classics of the genre will be updated with modern graphics is therefore appealing- you've got the story and gameplay quality of a proven success, one that kept drawing players on its own merits long after it became outdated, combined with modern technology.

Hopefully.

Bounty wrote:I just stuffed bombs in his face.

Fighting Shadow Link was SO much fun I think i actually beat him solely with my sword&shield once, but i am not certain. But other ways were certainly easier.

When you swing the sword at him he auto-blocks it.

But anyway, I think future Zeldas could be improved by having fights that are actually challenging, rather than enemies being infinitely respawning (Leave room > Come back) minor nuisances and boss fights being thinly disguised puzzles.

Hopefully with Superguide / similar features being staple in Nintendo games, the difficulty will ramp up like it did for Mario Galaxy 2.

I think it might be possible to land a sword hit on Shadow Link if you do it right, but I'm not sure. It's definitely true that most sword attacks, under most conditions, he will autoblock.

But anyway, I think future Zeldas could be improved by having fights that are actually challenging

Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were better about that - the armoured knights were pretty fun to fight using blocks and counters.

Bounty wrote:

But anyway, I think future Zeldas could be improved by having fights that are actually challenging

Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were better about that - the armoured knights were pretty fun to fight using blocks and counters.

Until you had to do 4 at once in Twilight Princess. Fucking cave of ordeals.

I'd imagine that the enemies in Skyward Sword, will take longer given the directional attacks the player will have to do, and given that they all seem to block.

Simon_Jester wrote:I think it might be possible to land a sword hit on Shadow Link if you do it right, but I'm not sure. It's definitely true that most sword attacks, under most conditions, he will autoblock.

I used to fight the Elite Gerudo guards (not those outside, those with the Swords guarding the prison cells), because those were pretty much the most challenging fights. But i also had a save shortly before Shadow Link in case i got bored with those. I'm still pretty sure that i beat him in a straight-up swordfight at least once, you just need godlike timing.

Either way, i definitely agree that some more challenging fight would have been very good.

Stategy Wiki

Using the Master Sword: Timed attacks

It takes luck and skill to best him with the Master Sword.

Z-target Dark Link, and hold your shield out. When he begins to attack, hit B (Jump Attack) as soon as he swings, or as soon as he strikes your shield - your chances are good to land a solid hit without exposing yourself. If he mimics the move, he'll end up behind you and facing away. Keep Z-target on, but turn around ASAP and do a regular swing on him.

Using the Master Sword: Button mashing

As you can tell with Dark Link, he will mirror your every swing with one of his own. To exploit this, perform continuous vertical slashes towards him but off to the side. You should either be able to get behind him to make an attack that will hit or otherwise take damage and be able to squeeze in a hit of your own.

IIRC, when I recently did that fight a couple of months ago, I disabled z targeting entirely because the game's AI doesn't know very well how to defend against attacks when you're not z-targeting. I don't completely remember, but I think it devolved into just trying to hit Dark Link with attacks that are off-center, as in the 2nd suggestion above.

Simon_Jester wrote:I found the Water Temple frustrating, but good nonetheless: heroes should have some difficult challenges to confront, after all. I didn't lose enough times to reach the "this breaks my suspension of disbelief" level, so maybe I found it less frustrating than some did.

The Water Temple was sufficiently frustrating (especially for a 12-13 year old) that I felt outrageously let down when I got to the boss. After what is easily the most difficult miniboss in the game, the Morpheus fight consisted of squatting in the corner, hookshotting the boss core and whacking it; wash, rinse, repeat without the slightest threat.

I will maintain that some of the best games ever were on N64, and the graphics didn't matter at all. I recently got to replay Harvest Moon and Ogre Battle 64, both of which have aged surprisingly well. It shocking how addictive farming is, and Ogre Battle 64 is one of the best RPGs of all time.

Long story short, nostalgia plays a big part in the hype, but a lot of N64 games were, and continue to be quite good. Think of it as being like people continuing to watch old movies, and buying re-releases, even though film-making techniques (cinematography, editing, effects, etc...) have improved.

Kingmaker wrote:

Simon_Jester wrote:I found the Water Temple frustrating, but good nonetheless: heroes should have some difficult challenges to confront, after all. I didn't lose enough times to reach the "this breaks my suspension of disbelief" level, so maybe I found it less frustrating than some did.

The Water Temple was sufficiently frustrating (especially for a 12-13 year old) that I felt outrageously let down when I got to the boss. After what is easily the most difficult miniboss in the game, the Morpheus fight consisted of squatting in the corner, hookshotting the boss core and whacking it; wash, rinse, repeat without the slightest threat.

On my own first play, at roughly the same age (maybe a year or so younger) I had the opposite experience: I found the puzzles tolerable, but the boss rather challenging on the first go-round.

Probably because I hadn't been doing much tactical hook-shotting up till that point.

Magellan wrote:Until you had to do 4 at once in Twilight Princess. Fucking cave of ordeals.

'Had to' ? That was a completely optional hidden section, for players who wanted something more difficult than the main game.

Starglider wrote:

Magellan wrote:Until you had to do 4 at once in Twilight Princess. Fucking cave of ordeals.

'Had to' ? That was a completely optional hidden section, for players who wanted something more difficult than the main game.

It was just a jab, calm down. I'm still bitter because I was never able to beat it.

Try doing it with the Magic Armor equiped and a full or near-full wallet. Also, make sure you're at full health with as many health potions as possible. (There's a golden chu in the cave if you can find it, in the room with like 40 chus hanging from the ceiling, I'd recommend that or fairy's tears in your bottles.)

I've done it once, or maybe twice, and damn it was a bitch.

Simon_Jester wrote:

Kingmaker wrote:

Simon_Jester wrote:I found the Water Temple frustrating, but good nonetheless: heroes should have some difficult challenges to confront, after all. I didn't lose enough times to reach the "this breaks my suspension of disbelief" level, so maybe I found it less frustrating than some did.

The Water Temple was sufficiently frustrating (especially for a 12-13 year old) that I felt outrageously let down when I got to the boss. After what is easily the most difficult miniboss in the game, the Morpheus fight consisted of squatting in the corner, hookshotting the boss core and whacking it; wash, rinse, repeat without the slightest threat.

On my own first play, at roughly the same age (maybe a year or so younger) I had the opposite experience: I found the puzzles tolerable, but the boss rather challenging on the first go-round.

Probably because I hadn't been doing much tactical hook-shotting up till that point.

It wasn't the puzzles in general, it was one or two puzzles in particular (though I'll be damned if can remember which ones; after replaying it years later, I pretty much waltzed through). And the repeated ordeal of raising or lowering the water level every time you messed up and forgot something. On the other hand, the hookshot was one of the coolest things I had ever seen up to that point in my life, and I used it on everything. I even (tried to) use it on Shadow Ganon, which worked about as well as you'd expect.

Ocarina of Time is quite fun to go back and try with a bunch of handicap. Iron Knuckle fights are harrowing if you've only got three hearts, and there's the hilarity of beating Ganondorf using a bottle.