StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I know we've got a number of people on the boards here who play the various GW games and are generally aware of the latest round of GW's insanity. The gaming community has in general completely lost its shit over the way GW has pretty much gone and fucked its customers this time around. I'm a semi-regular contributor to a podcast/blog, Tabletop Hooligans, and in an attempt to bring some sanity and perhaps a positive outcome to the collective shit-losing posted a bit of an editorial a little while ago.

http://tabletophooligans.com/?p=241

Feel free to offer commentary either here or in the comment thread of the blog.

A. The writer of that piece is over the top
B. Without more context this is a thinly veiled invitation to promote the podcast/blog
C. Were I Games Workshops I'd read your piece I'd add another 15% price increase because hey having an Monopoly is awesome.

Wow. I always thought I'd have to be fucking retarded to buy any products from GW, now I know for sure.

I'd already decided to stop buying GW products until their treatment of customers changes. I had not however, thought to call them. I will do that tomorrow. As a wargamer with many, many other options, I will not accept price raises of 10-30% when they're using cheaper materials.

Mr Bean wrote:A. The writer of that piece is over the top
B. Without more context this is a thinly veiled invitation to promote the podcast/blog
C. Were I Games Workshops I'd read your piece I'd add another 15% price increase because hey having an Monopoly is awesome.

I would be the writer of that piece, and I'd invite you to read the threads over at Warseer or one of the other hobby forums. To put it charitably, people are completely losing their shit. What I wrote is carefully considered in comparison. I could care less if you ever visited the site again, I was attempting to contribute to the forum a discussion topic about something that a significant population of the SDN population DOES know quite a bit about and is well-informed about. If it's so bloody bothersome feel free to copy-paste my post over there and delete the link entirely, I'd do it myself but it's past the point I can edit the post.

Why whats happened with GW?
I cant listen to the link at this time...

They've increased the price of their products despite going for a cheaper material for their models, which basically means the price hike is completely unjustified. There's other stuff too like GW bullying distributors not to sell their wares which are cheaper to foreign markets like in Australia, where we're getting price gouged up the ass.

Thank god I don't buy Warhammer crap, otherwise I'd be annoyed.

Slacker wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:A. The writer of that piece is over the top
B. Without more context this is a thinly veiled invitation to promote the podcast/blog
C. Were I Games Workshops I'd read your piece I'd add another 15% price increase because hey having an Monopoly is awesome.

I would be the writer of that piece, and I'd invite you to read the threads over at Warseer or one of the other hobby forums. To put it charitably, people are completely losing their shit. What I wrote is carefully considered in comparison. I could care less if you ever visited the site again, I was attempting to contribute to the forum a discussion topic about something that a significant population of the SDN population DOES know quite a bit about and is well-informed about. If it's so bloody bothersome feel free to copy-paste my post over there and delete the link entirely, I'd do it myself but it's past the point I can edit the post.

I think it was well-written myself, aside from the wall of text (recommend you separate the text into discrete paragraphs). That GW has adopted such policies boggles the mind.

There's a reason I bailed on the core games many years back to focus on Bloodbowl, Mordheim and Necromunda.

One off purchases of 12 or so models v constant arms race due to changing rulesets?

No wonder GW tries to.kill off the "hobby games" lines every year.

Hey look, the main reason I play RPG's now. It may cost me £40 a book, but I get years of gaming out of that one book, which costs the same as 20 tactical marines

Eleas wrote:I think it was well-written myself, aside from the wall of text (recommend you separate the text into discrete paragraphs). That GW has adopted such policies boggles the mind.

Yeah, I have to have the guy who posted things to do a little judicious editing on that.

Slacker wrote:
I would be the writer of that piece, and I'd invite you to read the threads over at Warseer or one of the other hobby forums. To put it charitably, people are completely losing their shit. What I wrote is carefully considered in comparison. I could care less if you ever visited the site again, I was attempting to contribute to the forum a discussion topic about something that a significant population of the SDN population DOES know quite a bit about and is well-informed about. If it's so bloody bothersome feel free to copy-paste my post over there and delete the link entirely, I'd do it myself but it's past the point I can edit the post.

PR 15

Rules wrote: 15.Reference News Sources. If you create a thread about a news article, always provide a link or a text reference to the source. Also, provide enough text excerpts from the source to permit meaningful discussion even if readers don't visit the URL.

Had you even quoted 10% of the most relevant portions of the original piece I'd not have said anything but anytime here you want to make a thread you quote as much as possible from the original source, even if you are the original source. Links here are to verify what you posted is accurate or to read it in full if you only post 40% or so, not to read it at all.

Stofsk wrote:They've increased the price of their products despite going for a cheaper material for their models, which basically means the price hike is completely unjustified. There's other stuff too like GW bullying distributors not to sell their wares which are cheaper to foreign markets like in Australia, where we're getting price gouged up the ass.

Thank god I don't buy Warhammer crap, otherwise I'd be annoyed.

Apparently they've also tried to stop people buying stuff from out-of-region stores. I didn't understand why until I saw that a $100AUD thing here is $46AUD-equivalent in the UK GW store. They probably shouldn't waste so much money with suburban stores.

Stark wrote:Apparently they've also tried to stop people buying stuff from out-of-region stores. I didn't understand why until I saw that a $100AUD thing here is $46AUD-equivalent in the UK GW store. They probably shouldn't waste so much money with suburban stores.

How recently have they been doing that? I did grab some Dark Eldar stuff last year from the USA for significantly less, and told the GW staff here about it (being friends or whatever). No one seemed to care.

defanatic wrote:

Stark wrote:Apparently they've also tried to stop people buying stuff from out-of-region stores. I didn't understand why until I saw that a $100AUD thing here is $46AUD-equivalent in the UK GW store. They probably shouldn't waste so much money with suburban stores.

How recently have they been doing that? I did grab some Dark Eldar stuff last year from the USA for significantly less, and told the GW staff here about it (being friends or whatever). No one seemed to care.

It is only the Eurozone stores that can't sell out of their region, you can still buy from the US. And this is very recent, the new contracts haven't been replied to yet even. GW is using a trick of Eurozone laws to prevent outward sales, and it is doubtful that there is an equivalent law they can use for the US stores.

You know, there's a lot of other absolutely fantastic games made by other companies you could play.

Like infinity. Infinity is very cool

barnest2 wrote:Like infinity. Infinity is very cool

It is, but then you stop for five minutes every time you make a move so all your enemy's models can ARO.

Or you watch whilst his TAG just rains speculative heavy grenade launcher fire from out of view at the back of the board, decimating your army in his first turn (Less effective now that the HGL is less common on TAGs, but a friend of mine used to do this with PanO and has won games in the first round with it).

Still, it's got catgirls in, so I guess that's something.

If you want to play a decent SF skirmish game I'd recommend Urban War over Infinity.

Flames of War is good too. At least it was a few years ago when I was still into it. They weren't edition churning like GW and you could build a full size army for about AU$150 if you wished.

Infinity is cool, and those sorts of things (TAG rush, HGLs, Guided missiles) have counters.
Warmachine's fun too. Great game, really.

Plus all sorts of boardgames. Fantasy Flight Games really is making big strides in the 'new' generation of board games.

Flames of War is fantastic. It's not cheap, but it's still cheaper to get into than the Warhammer games. Of all the games systems out there, it's in my honest opinion probably the best, and now there are actually a number of companies coming up with plastic 15mm tanks to make it even cheaper, and unlike GW Battlefront isn't losing its shit over it.

I'll address some of your points with a follow up article this evening regarding the Eurozone and alternatives. There's a way GW tries to shut down American and Canadian companies from doing the same thing, but there are also way for retailers to 'strike back', so to speak, I'm just not sure if they're as profitable. And to keep Bean happy, I'll quote that article when I post it here.

At the heart of all the nerdrage against the price hike is a very sad fact. Many of the people railing against the price hikes are going to continue to purchase the product. Why? Because despite all the alternatives that are out there many people still really love these models and enjoy the game. There are nice alternatives out there but in the end there is a reaosn GW is at the top of the heap. Their models rock, their fluff is fun and the game is cool. The other alternatives have their charm but it ain't the same. And that's why some people will defect, some will drop out but most will stay in, just buy less models and take advantage of Ebay and any other cheap alternative out there. And frankly for those in a really friendly gaming group who the fuck cares if you're fielding Ultramarines as the flavor of the month Space Marines or cheaper Mantic models for current GW models? I expect an increase in proxying and other ways to get around having to buy these nuggets of gold, uh, I mean plastic models.

GW's decision is leading to what I believe is a bewildering spiral of lost sales and increasing prices to make up for those lost sales that, of course, will lead to yet more lost sales. And from another business perspective I have to wonder if they realize how high they are raising the bar for entry into this hobby. Someone on another podcast calculated that to currently start a new army you're looking at a cost in just models of $450-$600. That's just in models and not paint, hobby tools, etc. What parent in this economic climate would even think of letting their kid into this hobby when you can buy 'em a Wii and a few games for much less?

Speaking as a relative new comer to the hobby I have been astonished at how expensive it has become - and frankly already was last year at this time when I first got into the hobby. I have stopped buying the models as of last month because with the birth of a son spending money on plastic toy soldiers seems a really frivolous expense at the moment and I have a comfortable income. I don't anticipate buying again for quite some time. I've built up a nice surplus of models I haven't even assembled or painted yet and certainly have enough to complete my Ultramarine army and some left over to create a core Blood Angel force. So I'm good to go but I wonder for the others whether they can really walk away from the hobby even with the price increase. I tend to doubt it. I remember a lot of similar rage and complaints in the last two price increases and still see those same people posting on Dakka and podcasts still on the air. For many hobbyists GW is like Micorsoft, where is are you really going to go?

On the positive side of all of this is the move from metal to resin. I fucking HATE working with metal so I'm glad to see it gone.

As a college student, I briefly entertained the idea of getting into Warhammer 40k and similar sets, but found it much more cost effective to just grab a copy of the BrikWars ruleset and reuse the Lego collection I had built up as a child. I have a medium-sized chest full of Lego blocks, and my little brother (who has since "outgrown" Legos) contributed ~30 Lego guys he had pillaged out of the box. Using a 3-page abbreviated ruleset, I've had half-a-dozen games this past semester, all of them reasonably fun.

I actually ended up buying two small lego kits to price out some bare-bones startup costs. Spoiler

Stravo wrote:For many hobbyists GW is like Micorsoft, where is are you really going to go?

On the positive side of all of this is the move from metal to resin. I fucking HATE working with metal so I'm glad to see it gone.

Privateer Press, or Battlefront, or any number of other options. Or, hell, keep playing GW's games, just don't buy from them any more. I'm painting some space marines right now, for god's sake. I'm not going to stop playing 40K or Fantasy, I'm just done buying products in such a way that benefits Games Workshop. I'll get models from other companies, or second hand, via trade or ebay or whatever. I already largely use other company's paint-Vallejo or Reaper for the most part, aside from a handful of colors, and I imagine I can either make things work with close matches or I'll just swallow my pride, the occasional pot of Red Gore is not going to make or break GW's bottom line. It's a shame in a way, their washes and foundation paints are legitimately quality products at a relatively reasonable price. I don't feel like I'm getting sodomized purchasing them at retail.

Agreed personally on the move from metal to resin-I fucking hate metal models too.

Honestly, it's not the price increase that's at the core of this explosion of hate. It's the price increase at the same time they're transitioning from metal to resin-a move they've acknowledged is going to save them a shitton of money, along with their asinine 'Let's try and play the British East India Company with the Southern Hemisphere!' maneuver, coupled with their idiotic new marketing strategies, and then their reaction to the way their customer base has reacted to all of this.

It certainly has an effect on the likelihood of my ever joining the hobby- I've been interested but decided not to invest the money for some time: among other things I'm short on storage space and a decent place to make a workbench of, due to my current living arrangements.

But if the company is going to keep rapidly jacking up prices for the foreseeable future, there's really not much incentive for me to plunk down several hundred dollars trying to put together the Little Sisters of Our Lady of Superior Firepower.