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Seems like the art design is a going to be a little bit similar to Team Fortress 2.

Huh. It looks like it's literally a stand-alone remake. Most of the heroes look like direct copies of original DOTA characters.

Um, that seems to be kind of the whole point of this trailer. And since the 'Aeon of Strife' style of game has been around longer than DotA - though was the first really well balanced version, imho - and there have been at least four more or less blatant (and abysmal) copies already, I don't see a problem with a developer/publisher who had some great successes in online gaming taking a shot at it. If it runs on my MacBook and is as good as it seems, I am probably going to buy it.
edit: And whats wrong with being almost exactly like DotA? If the learning curve is reduced - something that can be achieved with good tutorials, better UI and bots that aren't either stupid or unbeatable - and some of the WC3 engine's idiocyncracies are left out, there are no big problems with the game mechanics themselves.

Yeah, it being basically DotA1, remade with better graphics and smoothed out mechanics is kinda the point. The BNET and WC3 base were anchors to the game, so we'll see exactly what they come up with for DotA2. My hope is that the game will be dynamic and interesting enough that I won't feel disappointed. LoL's baby-safe character design makes me incredibly frustrated at times, but I did not enjoy rejoining HoN recently just to see a billion new heroes and have not a freaking clue what was going on because nothing had contextual cues.

In any case, I'm optimistic. The one thing I don't look forwards to is the carry mechanic. I dislike how one guy is the carry and basically everyone else's job is to support him entirely. It's not like you're doing NOTHING, but it always felt a bit more frustrating to have such a minimal contribution to the fight when if your one dude dies, there's like nothing you can do to take out their team. My hope is that during the transition they'll identify this is a bit of a frustration and take some steps to alleviate it. It's really not a fun gameplay mechanic.

I always found the carry mechanic dull because it basically reduces the game's complexity quite a bit and makes it so only one person is the real determinant for victory. It's also really aggravating to take a relatively complex character and be relatively out of control of the flow of the game. For all of LoL's failings in terms of champion design, I feel like with about a third of the cast I can get myself into a situation where I become powerful enough to make a big impact and help in unexpected ways. I think "killing people" should be everyone's job, and it should just come in flavors of how.

Skgoa wrote:Um, that seems to be kind of the whole point of this trailer.

I knew it was going to be similar, but I guess I was expecting a bit more than a replication of DotA Allstars with an independent game engine. Hopefully they've fixed the balance problems and made the useless heroes less useless. Granted, we've seen all of jack and shit in terms of game play, but the design team is being led by IceFrog, so I expect it to be at least decent.

Kingmaker wrote:

Skgoa wrote:Um, that seems to be kind of the whole point of this trailer.

I knew it was going to be similar, but I guess I was expecting a bit more than a replication of DotA Allstars with an independent game engine. Hopefully they've fixed the balance problems and made the useless heroes less useless. Granted, we've seen all of jack and shit in terms of game play, but the design team is being led by IceFrog, so I expect it to be at least decent.

I share a similar hope. I think this will occur during betatesting.

The big dota2 tourney is being held tomorrow so we know they have a playable, competitively stable build ready, but it may need specific machines and specs to run. But why have a beta just to fix the tech specs? I think they're also going to be using it as a time to roll in the new features and, hopefully, as some playtesting time to determine where to go with some minor balance tweaks.

Some guys are really strong, some guys are really weak. Overall I just want to know that when I pick a hero, I have a chance of defending myself and being productive. I really want there to be no "Ward Bitch" characters at all who are stuck doing the uninteresting job of lugging around wards and having basically no equipment at all. Not everyone should be a carry, but the role of the carry should be to kill an IMPORTANT TARGET rather than to be capable of killing ALL the targets.

They should be like Cavalry, who you defend and use to great effect when everyone else positions the enemy appropriately, but not unkillable to the very workmanlike Pikemen and such.

If you look at DOTA as a recreation of the "this unit is best" ethos set up by Starcraft and Warcraft 3, I want there to be a DOTA recreation of the "each unit has a unique role" ethos put into play by Company of Heroes and World in Conflict.

Maybe too much to ask, but Valve did a good job of this in TF2. There's no carry in TF2, and I'd like there to be no solo carry in D2 either.

Covenant wrote:Yeah, it being basically DotA1, remade with better graphics and smoothed out mechanics is kinda the point. The BNET and WC3 base were anchors to the game, so we'll see exactly what they come up with for DotA2. My hope is that the game will be dynamic and interesting enough that I won't feel disappointed. LoL's baby-safe character design makes me incredibly frustrated at times, but I did not enjoy rejoining HoN recently just to see a billion new heroes and have not a freaking clue what was going on because nothing had contextual cues.

In any case, I'm optimistic. The one thing I don't look forwards to is the carry mechanic. I dislike how one guy is the carry and basically everyone else's job is to support him entirely. It's not like you're doing NOTHING, but it always felt a bit more frustrating to have such a minimal contribution to the fight when if your one dude dies, there's like nothing you can do to take out their team. My hope is that during the transition they'll identify this is a bit of a frustration and take some steps to alleviate it. It's really not a fun gameplay mechanic.

I always found the carry mechanic dull because it basically reduces the game's complexity quite a bit and makes it so only one person is the real determinant for victory. It's also really aggravating to take a relatively complex character and be relatively out of control of the flow of the game. For all of LoL's failings in terms of champion design, I feel like with about a third of the cast I can get myself into a situation where I become powerful enough to make a big impact and help in unexpected ways. I think "killing people" should be everyone's job, and it should just come in flavors of how.

Personally... I always felt the carry mechanic reflects the weakness of DOTA team players rather than the game itself.

In a 5v5, it shouldn't be THAT impossible, even if you use randoms to get a character that can contribute to winning the game. It may not be killing heroes but even simple things like pushing towers, C&C or etc is possible depending on the hero you get.
Intel heroes used to suffer because they don't progress well late game, but if the team actually supports intel heroes, there's no reason why they can't contribute late game other than "ward"!. Spam spell to kill creeps. Follow me! shit.

Essentially, the game rewards "me" players and not "team play", so, the players concept of teamwork also revolves around "me" and invididuals.
We see this most in Dwarven snipers or QOP players. If they spam the execute/ulti in the begining, the entire team benefits, to the extent that Silencer or Lich King or etc are better able to contribute in late game(if they're not the carry), Similarly, I seen games where the "carry" was Anti-mage, but it was still possible, or should be possible for str to do their job by either stunning opponents and performing control or just absorbing damage instead of focusing on player kills. The Anti-mage player as the carry also had to know what his target pirorities were and play the game so as not to maximise his kills per say, but to mould the battlefield where the team can kill or push the tower.

It gets even more annoying now because the newer equipment makes Intel heros viable and relatively well protected late game.

I liked demigod.