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It's now time for me to buy a new computer, I have a $600 budget (spared from a tax refund), and I'm looking at this, and adding in the 1GB ATI HD 6450 grahics card to round off the $600.
Can anyone think of a good reason I shouldn't do this? Reliability issues, etc?

I've also remembered that I have an ATI d43136 graphics card hanging around. Should I put that in instead?

I tend to play games like Medieval Total War, no online games or FPS. I also write programs that can be very heavy on number crunching (I have had one program take nearly 2 weeks to make up over 30,000 noble npcs. But it did it! I wasn't sure if it would manage it, or die trying. It was a old laptop.)

I wonder why a low-end card like the 6450 needs 1 GB of memory.
Usually unless you are playing very demanding games on a big TV screen you don't need a card with more than 512 mb.

I'd say to take a hd 4870 with 512 mb. You should be able to find one for less than 80 bucks on Ebay.

Korto wrote:I've also remembered that I have an ATI d43136 graphics card hanging around. Should I put that in instead?

If that's a Radeon 9200SE, which is the only thing I can find associated with that number, then you won't be able to use it because it's AGP and that computer's motherboard only takes PCI and PCI express.

Korto wrote:It's now time for me to buy a new computer, I have a $600 budget (spared from a tax refund), and I'm looking at this, and adding in the 1GB ATI HD 6450 grahics card to round off the $600.
Can anyone think of a good reason I shouldn't do this? Reliability issues, etc?

I've also remembered that I have an ATI d43136 graphics card hanging around. Should I put that in instead?

I tend to play games like Medieval Total War, no online games or FPS. I also write programs that can be very heavy on number crunching (I have had one program take nearly 2 weeks to make up over 30,000 noble npcs. But it did it! I wasn't sure if it would manage it, or die trying. It was a old laptop.)

Once you've saved up some additional cash, a couple other modifications would be good. First, either replace the CD-RW with, or add, a DVD-RW drive. Most games these days use DVDs instead of CDs, because games are getting huge. Also, I recommend upgrading the power supply to a 600W one. (Makes room for later additions.)

Can't really speak to the rest of it, but the graphics card doesn't have a thing to do with number-crunching apart from displaying the results on your monitor. That's solely the responsibility of the processor. (I've known one game, X3: Terran Conflict, to slow down the further you get for exactly that reason: a hell of a lot of off-screen events taking place.) In that regard, it looks good, although I'm not sure about one thing: is this dual-core or quad-core (the processor speed looks like dual-core numbers)? (I don't know much about AMD processors; I tend to use Intel.)

Someone_Else wrote:I wonder why a low-end card like the 6450 needs 1 GB of memory.
...you don't need a card with more than 512 mb.

I'd say to take a hd 4870 with 512 mb. You should be able to find one for less than 80 bucks on Ebay.

Well, apparently I can't. More like $100 bucks, as far as I could see. However, there are a big range of cards there, and I could get away with under $50, inc. postage with 512mb. Not that the card names mean anything to me. For instance "MSI NX8400GS-TD512E​H GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit GDDR2" for $40 + post
Would you say the 6450 card is overpriced at $100?

XaLEv wrote:If that's a Radeon 9200SE, which is the only thing I can find associated with that number, then you won't be able to use it because it's AGP and that computer's motherboard only takes PCI and PCI express.

Hmmph. May have been sold a pup, as, as far as I can see, it is AGP which is apparently out of date. Oh well, it was a bundle with a couple of old hdd's for $20.
If anyone wants it, you can have it for postage.

Starsword wrote:First, either replace the CD-RW with, or add, a DVD-RW drive

...is this dual-core or quad-core?

Hey? It IS DVD. Least I thought so.

22x Dual Layer DVD/RW SATA Drive

Not much info as to what exactly it is, true, but none the less. I'll be sending an email asking for more information about it. Make and model.
I don't know much about Intel or AMD, but I found a comparison between the amd chip and the i7 and i5, and it reckoned the amd was better than the i5, not as good as the i7 (except in a few isolated areas), and the i7 would be $600 without a graphics card. So...
I'm aware (at least, I thought I was) the graphics card would be no help for standard number crunching, but for once I want to play a reasonably modern game without having to tone down the graphics to the lowest setting.
And to answer your question, apparently...

AMD Phenom II 965 (Black Edition) Quad Core

Got a reply on the optical drive
It's apparaently an ASUS 24x DRW-24B3ST

If you are seriously considering a 6450 graphics card as meeting your needs (and I'm not going to judge on that), forget the discreet card and get something based on the AMD A8-3850. It comes with a 6450-class graphics chip built into the processor from which you can add a faster discreet card later. The CPUs are essentially the same so this should be a better deal overall as these chips are going for around $120 in the US right now.

I just priced a similar machine on Newegg (granted at US prices) based around the AMD A8 processor and it comes out to $450. Granted prices in Australia might be a bit different but it's a better machine overall going that route.

Korto wrote:I also write programs that can be very heavy on number crunching

Since they also say it is meant to be overclocked, you could have a look at how to overclock the baby. That would significantly improve performance, if the cooling system is decent. But I doubt you need to. That's a serious CPU. Not the best but a good one.

Would you say the 6450 card is overpriced at $100?

Yes (for just a bit more you can get stuff that spanks that card, see below), but I also think that it's also unnecessary for you.

I think it's very likely that the integrated graphics of that desktop can handle most old games with good quality (although don't quote me on that). I mean hell, an integrated HD 3200 of a 4-year-old laptop i own can fucking play age of empires 3 with good quality, or even Mass Effect. (the latter is much more than my desktop can handle, but that's a detail)

Since you are clearly not in a hurry, I suggest to buy the desktop first and then have this site scan it to see if it can run your games smoothly.

Then you can think about buying graphic cards, although I doubt you would need one for the kinds of games you talked of.
(I mean it's stuff that kinda works even on my desktop, renown for its old age)

Well, apparently I can't. More like $100 bucks, as far as I could see.

Ops. Shipping costs to AU are much higher than shipping costs to Italy. Telling Ebay to send stuff to Canberra (a reasonable approximation for "somewhere in Australia") there are less interesting prices for that kind of card. The price difference between that and a better card becomes a few dozens bucks. Since that's a thing that it's going to last 5 years at least, 20 or even 50 more bucks of diffference aren't so bad for a massive increase in performance imho.

If you trust used card sellers you can even get even better cards for around 100 bucks This or this

Just stay clear of powercolor cards huh?

StarSword wrote:(I've known one game, X3: Terran Conflict, to slow down the further you get for exactly that reason: a hell of a lot of off-screen events taking place.)

It also had a very dated game engine (basically the same as X2), that made it totally unable to run on more than a single core of a CPU. Which means it sucked more on newer (multicore) computers. And there was no cure.

That's why the new game in the series is going to use a brand-new game engine.

One assumes you have a monitor already?

This PC should be fine for number crunching, especially if you make sure that whatever program you have crunching your numbers is optimized to work on 4 cores. Out of the box, it should run easily most modern games at medium settings, and handle HD video without any issues. I would not upgrade your graphics card until you actually need a better card to play the games that you want, which is likely to come around the time as the next console generation gets up and running.

For serious computing applications like the two-week simulation you mentioned, I would suggest considering getting a smallish solid state hard drive: with that kind of CPU and RAM available, your hard drive read/write speed may be a limiting factor. It would pay to find out before you buy one, of course.

Caveat emptor: the ebay page you linked marks Windows 7 as a "free trial," which I imagine means "unlicensed copy that stops working in 30 days if you don't register." If you don't already have a licensed copy of 7, you're going to need one, which is another hundred dollars or so on your base price.

Feil wrote:Caveat emptor: the ebay page you linked marks Windows 7 as a "free trial," which I imagine means "unlicensed copy that stops working in 30 days if you don't register." If you don't already have a licensed copy of 7, you're going to need one, which is another hundred dollars or so on your base price.

Alternatively, if you've got an OS installation disc and CD key from the previous machine then you may be able to recycle them for the new one, though I wouldn't advise trying this with an OEM-branded CD.

OK, I'm taking the advice and skipping the graphics card. The arguament that our current games wont need it, and when we get some new games we can buy a card then makes a lot of sense to me.
Saving $100 makes a lot of sense, too.
I do have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and OS hanging around to stick into it. The OS is only XP, which may mean the computer wont work to its fullest (as a layman's guess), but I already own it and one day I'll upgrade.

XP32, or XP64? If you're doing any sort of serious computing, you really owe it to yourself to get a 64 bit OS.

Korto wrote:The OS is only XP, which may mean the computer wont work to its fullest (as a layman's guess)

Yeah. For one thing, unless that's 64 bit XP, you'll be limited to using 3 and a bit out of that machine's 8 gigabytes of memory.

Korto wrote:

Starsword wrote:First, either replace the CD-RW with, or add, a DVD-RW drive

...is this dual-core or quad-core?

Hey? It IS DVD. Least I thought so.

22x Dual Layer DVD/RW SATA Drive

Oops. Misread that. Sorry. (I swear to God, I must be blind.)

XaLEv wrote:

Korto wrote:The OS is only XP, which may mean the computer wont work to its fullest (as a layman's guess)

Yeah. For one thing, unless that's 64 bit XP, you'll be limited to using 3 and a bit out of that machine's 8 gigabytes of memory.

Good point, and I should have picked up on that myself. 3.5GB of RAM is plenty for any game he has that will play without a graphics card, however, so it'll be more than adequate in the interim.

Oh, and something else you might want to salvage from the old PC is the hard drive, at least if you don't plan on selling it on as a working machine. It'll make a useful backup drive and enable you to experiment with Linux without messing about with drive partitions.

XaLEv wrote:

Korto wrote:The OS is only XP, which may mean the computer wont work to its fullest (as a layman's guess)

Yeah. For one thing, unless that's 64 bit XP, you'll be limited to using 3 and a bit out of that machine's 8 gigabytes of memory.

Only that? Fuck. I didn't shell out for 8gb just so half of it could go play with itself in a corner.
<Sigh> I'll put a new OS on the "To Do" list. Along with everything else.

The old computer's going to the wife. Her's crapping it's what triggered the need for a new one. Those with memories might remember that she was going to buy one, but it fell through, so now I'm buying one instead.

Heh, so you know where those 100 bucks will go.

While it may be irrelevant for the current PC (I haven't looked but may be able to hold more than 8 gigs of RAM), may be a good idea to buy a OS that can handle even more RAM. So you can use it on a newer PC you will buy in the future, or you can buy more RAM.

A simple list

Starter: 8GB
Home Basic: 8GB
Home Premium: 16GB
Professional: 192GB
Enterprise: 192GB
Ultimate: 192GB

I bought Ultimate for my gaming rig (it has both Home and Professional features), although it's too new to say anything about it.

Also, you may consider to install a linux OS, linux puppy on the oldest computer you are about to trash. So you can keep using it for light stuff. Does wonders on crappy computers, and it's just a bit more difficult to learn than windows 7 if you know already win XP.

Well, got the new computer, 30 day trial Win 7, Start Menu is annoying me, and of the few things I've put on it so far, everything has had to be emulated. Medieval 2 Total War at least now shuts down fast enough as to make shutting the game down worth it. Before, it took so long, it was faster to just reboot the whole bloody computer.

One issue though, the USB plugs stay live even after the computer's shut down. I got in touch with the shop, and they told me that's standard these days, so people can recharge their mobile phones and crap while the computer's off. Are they shitting me to avoid admitting the thing's faulty, or what moron came up with that idea?

Korto wrote:Well, got the new computer, 30 day trial Win 7, Start Menu is annoying me, and of the few things I've put on it so far, everything has had to be emulated. Medieval 2 Total War at least now shuts down fast enough as to make shutting the game down worth it. Before, it took so long, it was faster to just reboot the whole bloody computer.

You still have that XP disc, so you could always look into dual-booting. If you don't want to fiddle around with partitions you can buy a used hard disk -from a reputable local sales and repair shop, ideally, not eBay- and put it in one of the spare drive bays.

One issue though, the USB plugs stay live even after the computer's shut down. I got in touch with the shop, and they told me that's standard these days, so people can recharge their mobile phones and crap while the computer's off. Are they shitting me to avoid admitting the thing's faulty, or what moron came up with that idea?

Doesn't sound like a terribly bad idea to me, actually, but if it bothers you that much there should be a hard-power switch on the PSU somewhere.

Zaune wrote:Doesn't sound like a terribly bad idea to me, actually, but if it bothers you that much there should be a hard-power switch on the PSU somewhere.

Why it's a stupid idea is that just about everything plugs into the USBs these days; printer, scanner, card-reader, keyboard, mouse, etc, etc, and a lot of that stuff doesn't need to be on when the computer isn't. My mouse is an excellent example, the thing is more lit up with LEDs than the damned Starship Enterprise while on (a fact I only discovered after purchase). This means that even while the computer's off, it's still glowing away happily, consuming power for absolutely no purpose.
In a time when we're being continually warned about the secret waste of power through "Standby" settings, and how "every little helps", it is moronic to make yet another thing that you can't turn off without having to resort to the power point, just for the convenience of a few people with mobile phones.
If they had made it just the front USBs, then that may have been a reasonable compromise, or perhaps an actual on/off switch. But no. Every USB is permanently on, for my "convenience"