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In a move that nobody didn't see coming, STO will be going free-to-play 'later this year'. I really enjoyed the beta but didn't feel the game was worth the money of a subscription; but if it's free I'm definitely going back in. It's a nice timewaster, especially if you have a group to play with.

Bounty wrote:I really enjoyed the beta but didn't feel the game was worth the money of a subscription; but if it's free I'm definitely going back in. It's a nice timewaster, especially if you have a group to play with.

My feelings about STO exactly - I'll reinstall and make some weird alien dude or dudette once it's free.

I like it when MMOs I might enjoy every couple of weeks for a couple of hours go free to play. I even reinstalled Age of Conan recently

1. 2.5 D flying, Yup you can't make a loop which becomes truly annoying in the heat of combat and even more annoying when reading the devs reasonings for not having full 3D - it confused people.

2. PVP - especially cloaks, In the beginning it sounds fun, You can even get a feddie ship with cloak but when you get to the actual game play you're going to hate it - you fight klink and think you're gonna win, But then the klink cloaks and flies away to regenerate shields and the fight can start all over again, And again over and over.

And it's not like the ships with cloak have to conserve energy in order to cloak, nope they always work like magic(klink battle cloak is especially annoying in this At least with the feddie cloak you have to move out of combat to engage it).

3. STO allows script customization of controls but doesn't support it which is totally unfair because the ones who figures out how to script the controls are at a huge advantage while does who aren't so tech savvy are left behind....and this is a mmo.

Don't know if this was any use to you guys but that is my perspective on STO.

Yay I actually bought STO, but I didn't like it enough to keep paying subscription fees after the first month. Champions F2P is really quite good, so I have high hopes for STO's. As long as I get to use my existing character, I'll play it.

Anacronian wrote:2. PVP - especially cloaks, In the beginning it sounds fun, You can even get a feddie ship with cloak but when you get to the actual game play you're going to hate it - you fight klink and think you're gonna win, But then the klink cloaks and flies away to regenerate shields and the fight can start all over again, And again over and over.

BoPs were worthless in anything other than an "alpha strike" situation or the rare Klink that actually used them as science ships for the debuffs, etc. I used to dust them non-stop in my Fed Science Ship (back when Rear Admiral was max rank). You just save a sensor scan and torp volley. The only real fix they needed was the idiotic 20% damage resistance buff they got when battle cloaking. Usually didn't matter though as you could easily burn evasive maneuvers and ramming speed to pick them off if your torp volley didn't finish them. Then they nerfed ramming speed....

The battle cloak was always highly overrated because BoPs didn't have the survivability of a cruiser or raptor. If 2 people focus them as soon as they decloak (and the targetted ship saves RSP for the opening volley), the BoP is either space dust or out of the fight for so long, they cease to matter. It's the fucking rogue of STO: in the hands of a capable player, they're deadly. But most people who play them are little kiddies who freak out and bail when their opening volley doesn't kill you.

3. STO allows script customization of controls but doesn't support it which is totally unfair because the ones who figures out how to script the controls are at a huge advantage while does who aren't so tech savvy are left behind....and this is a mmo.

Meh. When I quit, running a cruiser focusing on survival abilities was so overpowered, none of that other shit mattered. At my "prime" I could take on 5 feds in the warzone and just destroy them one by one. After they nerfed cruisers (which had to be done), that dropped to 3 (maybe 2 if there were escorts with good builds).

I do miss running around the warzone with Thog uncloaked in my Battle Cruiser and just trashing anyone who came near me. That and killing gold farmers and their hilariously poor builds. Might be worth another look.

I've got a lifetime subscription, so I'll be around if/when y'all come back to the game.
I'd also like to note that, while they haven't fixed 2.5d flight, they have gone a long ways towards making ground combat fun. It's no longer broken to the point of being unenjoyable.

TheFeniX wrote:

Anacronian wrote:2. PVP - especially cloaks, In the beginning it sounds fun, You can even get a feddie ship with cloak but when you get to the actual game play you're going to hate it - you fight klink and think you're gonna win, But then the klink cloaks and flies away to regenerate shields and the fight can start all over again, And again over and over.

BoPs were worthless in anything other than an "alpha strike" situation or the rare Klink that actually used them as science ships for the debuffs, etc. I used to dust them non-stop in my Fed Science Ship (back when Rear Admiral was max rank). You just save a sensor scan and torp volley. The only real fix they needed was the idiotic 20% damage resistance buff they got when battle cloaking. Usually didn't matter though as you could easily burn evasive maneuvers and ramming speed to pick them off if your torp volley didn't finish them. Then they nerfed ramming speed....

The battle cloak was always highly overrated because BoPs didn't have the survivability of a cruiser or raptor. If 2 people focus them as soon as they decloak (and the targetted ship saves RSP for the opening volley), the BoP is either space dust or out of the fight for so long, they cease to matter. It's the fucking rogue of STO: in the hands of a capable player, they're deadly. But most people who play them are little kiddies who freak out and bail when their opening volley doesn't kill you.

3. STO allows script customization of controls but doesn't support it which is totally unfair because the ones who figures out how to script the controls are at a huge advantage while does who aren't so tech savvy are left behind....and this is a mmo.

Meh. When I quit, running a cruiser focusing on survival abilities was so overpowered, none of that other shit mattered. At my "prime" I could take on 5 feds in the warzone and just destroy them one by one. After they nerfed cruisers (which had to be done), that dropped to 3 (maybe 2 if there were escorts with good builds).

I do miss running around the warzone with Thog uncloaked in my Battle Cruiser and just trashing anyone who came near me. That and killing gold farmers and their hilariously poor builds. Might be worth another look.

When i stopped 2 months ago i could outfight anything in my defiant refit with scripts locked to the keys 1-5 i maximize the efficiency of the refit to a degree that wasn't even funny, Only thing that stood a chance were science ships who can out heal any damage - another stupid concept in the game you can literary not kill a science ship that is build for healing, It doesn't matter if i could deliver alpha strikes that did 43000 damage a science ship could shake it of if the player of the ship knew what he was doing.

Feil wrote:Yay I actually bought STO, but I didn't like it enough to keep paying subscription fees after the first month. Champions F2P is really quite good, so I have high hopes for STO's. As long as I get to use my existing character, I'll play it.

I'm not sure you'll be able to. After season 4 launched (I'd let my sub lapse some time ago) I could not use my old paid account character, I had to create a new one. I guess this is because it'd have various gold account features they didn't want my silver self using, unless I pay.

Hopefully though, old C-store purchases will hold. If I lose my precious costume slots...

It's not all bad though. According to the current features matrix (which may be subject to change due to "testing" or, as I gather, sub members bitching about the 'freeloaders' getting "too much"*) you'll still have some things if you ever had a paid subscription at some point, which is nice.

*One suggestion I saw was limiting silver accounts to only 20 minutes of play per day. Yeah, because that will convince people who want to try it out to stick around...

I've not played a ton of F2P MMOs, granted, but those I have played don't do that. Do any of them do so? And are they even that successful? Not just 20 minute limits, but time limits in general? That just seems like it'd piss people off and have them dump the game altogether.

I've never heard of time limits on f2p MMOs either and yeah, it would be a very stupid idea. 20 mins is also pretty ridiculous regarding game play, I'm pretty sure I've done lots of missions back in beta that took a lot longer than 20 minutes and IIRC there's no "mid-mission quick save" or anything like that.

The only f2p MMO I'm involved in is LOTRO and that game is doing fine, in fact going f2p was a huge boost to both player base and subscribers. I have a life-time sub for that one so I never experienced it from the free-perspective first hand, though.

charlemagne wrote:I even reinstalled Age of Conan recently

I tried this, but their updating updater wouldn't let me download the update to patch the updated game. I wasn't too upset about it.

LOTRO going f2p worked pretty well, but they didn't limit anyone by time. I'm not sure why anyone would think that a good thing?

charlemagne wrote:I've never heard of time limits on f2p MMOs either and yeah, it would be a very stupid idea. 20 mins is also pretty ridiculous regarding game play, I'm pretty sure I've done lots of missions back in beta that took a lot longer than 20 minutes and IIRC there's no "mid-mission quick save" or anything like that.

The only f2p MMO I'm involved in is LOTRO and that game is doing fine, in fact going f2p was a huge boost to both player base and subscribers. I have a life-time sub for that one so I never experienced it from the free-perspective first hand, though.

I think i read somewere that DDO incresed their earnings with 500% after going free to play.
So i guess they are doing alright as well.

Stark wrote:LOTRO going f2p worked pretty well, but they didn't limit anyone by time. I'm not sure why anyone would think that a good thing?

Whiners, basically. "Oh noes, teh freepers!"

Really, when a game is F2P, I think it's not bright to limit you too much. Obviously there are limits, since the company wants an incentive for people to sub (or spend money at the cash store) but put in too many limits and people won't bother.

I get that when a game starts as P2P the sub base will be upset that the free people would get what they've had to pay for, but trying to make free players into second class citizens with heavy limits on what they can do is just going to damage the game more than help it.

Of course, fatty nerds and all that...

Stark wrote:I tried this, but their updating updater wouldn't let me download the update to patch the updated game. I wasn't too upset about it.

that's AoC-style QA at work again. Well, depending on when you last played the game it probably wouldn't make a big difference in file size if you just redownloaded everything. Anyways, I've had it patching for hours last August, then I logged in, got upset that I forgot what all my skills do and what the hell I was specced for and logged off again

If AoC was any better I could actually be kinda proud of my "collector's characters" that all still have the mark on their chest at level 80 because of the bug that didn't remove it when you completed the destiny questline

Some of my friends go through that with EVE. We get offered a free reactivation, we think about it, download/update the client, log in, and then instantly get bored and log out.

We haven't played AoC since the amazingly broken first few months, but I understand they never fixed res-point camping? We got hilarious emails promising (honest this time) that they rebuilt the game and it TOTALLY works now, honest!

It didn't.

Rogueice, LOTRO benefitted business and playerbase wise from f2p, but you woudln't know it to listen to general chat. Horrible wankers crapping on about noobs who don't love Tolkein enough daring to play their game, etc etc etc.

STO was fun in that regard, All the players natrually asume that everybody else are trek nerds, It happend to me, My knowlegde of Star Trek is confined to a couple of the films and some episodes of the old series.

So when i told my guild/fleet that i really know nothing about Star Trek they all became pushers trying to sell me all kinds of series on dvd's and when i politely declined they all treated me like some sort of paria

Stark wrote:Rogueice, LOTRO benefitted business and playerbase wise from f2p, but you woudln't know it to listen to general chat. Horrible wankers crapping on about noobs who don't love Tolkein enough daring to play their game, etc etc etc.

Yeah, especially the player-created server-wide chat channels are awful. Full of bored players that did everything there is to do thrice but are too fat to bring themselves to just play some other game until the next big content patch.

AoC is as broken as ever I think, they just added a whole new levelling system after level 80 with the add-on, can't say that I understood what that is about though. Oh, and apparently the Dark Templar has been fixed and is actually a viable PVP-class at level 80. I'm still sad that all that wonderful artwork, design, music and atmosphere hasn't led to a good game, though. Still, levelling three characters on a roleplay-server with a bunch of friends was fun.


Back to STO: surely it can't be that in an MMO you're supposed to create a new character at some point? Wth is that about?

charlemagne wrote:Back to STO: surely it can't be that in an MMO you're supposed to create a new character at some point? Wth is that about?

...What are you talking about?

Molyneux wrote:...What are you talking about?

This:

RogueIce wrote:I'm not sure you'll be able to. After season 4 launched (I'd let my sub lapse some time ago) I could not use my old paid account character, I had to create a new one. I guess this is because it'd have various gold account features they didn't want my silver self using, unless I pay.

charlemagne wrote:

Molyneux wrote:...What are you talking about?

This:

RogueIce wrote:I'm not sure you'll be able to. After season 4 launched (I'd let my sub lapse some time ago) I could not use my old paid account character, I had to create a new one. I guess this is because it'd have various gold account features they didn't want my silver self using, unless I pay.

I dunno. That was then, before they just locked out trial accounts period.

It makes some sense, though. Take Boffs. Gold continues with the "extra two slots at rankup" while silver gets some fixed amount. Say my old gold account has more Boffs than a Silver (earned, not bought; anything bought on C-store stays regardless, according to the devs) should, and I downgrade to silver. Where do my other Boffs go? Do they just get deleted? Grayed out to only whoever was in my top five (or whatever number)? Will they come back if I later decide to go gold? And will respec tokens I had earned and not used still be there, or just disabled? Do those come back if I later upgrade?

None of these challenges are impossible to address, of course, though I could see them taking the "lazy way" out on it. (Has anyone gone from Gold -> Silver in Champions? At least that way we'd have an idea for how Cryptic handles that sort of thing...for good or bad)

I didn't quite understand your comment either, TBH. So I'm just taking a stab at what you meant?

I guess it just seems weird to me. Let's take AoC or LOTRO as examples, I have high level characters in both games, invested quite some time in them - with those games going f2p, the incentive to go back and take them for another spin is much higher when your "beloved" character is still there. But if you have to start all over again - meh.

charlemagne wrote:I guess it just seems weird to me. Let's take AoC or LOTRO as examples, I have high level characters in both games, invested quite some time in them - with those games going f2p, the incentive to go back and take them for another spin is much higher when your "beloved" character is still there. But if you have to start all over again - meh.

Ah. Well, from what I gather at the STO forums, it seems they're just going to "downgrade" gold characters to silver features if you go back. I'm just not sure how that works, exactly (ie: where any 'excess Boffs' would go, but then I don't think they've said how many Boffs silver characters would get, just that it'll be "enough" for T5 ships and additional slots are purchasable).

EDIT: Right now a lot is up in the air, obviously.

Though it's funny seeing some (but by no means all) of the Lifers, complaining how they're "losing" their perks. No, jackasses, other people may get to play as Liberated Borg by some as-yet defined manner, but Cryptic isn't going into your account, stealing your Liberated Borg, and giving it to some random silver "froob" just to spite you. It's still going to be there.

Man, some of them come across as overly entitled assholes, that they are so special and should be elevated to some magic tier above all others.

Even though, y'know, someone who does the monthly sub bit for about 21 months will have actually paid more than the Lifer (and will keep paying more) while the Lifer never has to give Cryptic another penny (they're even getting a 400 c-points per months stipend!).

RogueIce wrote: Ah. Well, from what I gather at the STO forums, it seems they're just going to "downgrade" gold characters to silver features if you go back.

I'm sold, then. Thanks. Hopefully I won't lose too many things. I wasn't very high level, anyway - midway through Commander if I recall correctly.

RogueIce wrote:Though it's funny seeing some (but by no means all) of the Lifers, complaining how they're "losing" their perks. No, jackasses, other people may get to play as Liberated Borg by some as-yet defined manner, but Cryptic isn't going into your account, stealing your Liberated Borg, and giving it to some random silver "froob" just to spite you. It's still going to be there.

Man, some of them come across as overly entitled assholes, that they are so special and should be elevated to some magic tier above all others.

Even though, y'know, someone who does the monthly sub bit for about 21 months will have actually paid more than the Lifer (and will keep paying more) while the Lifer never has to give Cryptic another penny (they're even getting a 400 c-points per months stipend!).

It's either they feel extra special, or they find that their lifetime subscription doesn't mean much whenthe servers shut down because nobody is paying for them. Wonder which one they really care about.

Bear in mind that only the selfish dolts are going to be highly motivated to post a lot on the subject. You don't hear much from the people who read the news and think, "Cryptic decided it needed to make a change to F2P. Cool, I guess." Because they think that and then move on with their lives. So of course the majority of posters are crybaby jackasses, because only the crybaby jackasses are posting.

How much is 400 c-points in US dollars?

RogueIce wrote:Though it's funny seeing some (but by no means all) of the Lifers, complaining how they're "losing" their perks. No, jackasses, other people may get to play as Liberated Borg by some as-yet defined manner, but Cryptic isn't going into your account, stealing your Liberated Borg, and giving it to some random silver "froob" just to spite you. It's still going to be there.

Man, some of them come across as overly entitled assholes, that they are so special and should be elevated to some magic tier above all others.

Even though, y'know, someone who does the monthly sub bit for about 21 months will have actually paid more than the Lifer (and will keep paying more) while the Lifer never has to give Cryptic another penny (they're even getting a 400 c-points per months stipend!).

Yeah, exactly the same thing with Lotro. There's also lifetime subs there, and people cried and whined so much... but you still are way better off than anybody else with our lifetime sub, you still never have to pay again (except expansions of course), you automatically get points to spend in the in-game shop and they never took anything away from you.