D&D 3.5 vs Pathfinder

[Darmalus]

All this talk in the D&D 5th Edition thread got me wondering about this Pathfinder thing I had basically ignored until now. I managed to borrow the core book, and aside from some changes to the core classes (which seem pretty good at first glance) and a few skill merges, nothing else is really leaping out at me. So what was changed to make it considered D&D 3.75?

[Erik von Nein]

A bunch of the combat maneuvers were changed, now having their own combat defense and combat offensive modifiers. Several classes have variants spread all through their material, there are new base classes, and now fly is a skill (?!?!). They nerfed or boosted a bunch of abilities, spells, and classes kind of arbitrarily and some of the monsters, as well. I

The biggest appeal, though, is that they're continuing to print new material while essentially continuing the rule set of 3.5.

Personally, I've read through it, ganked some improvements I liked and didn't bother with the rest. At least quite a bit of their material is up on the Pathfinder SRD, so that's something.

[Serafina]

First of all, all pathfinder material (even from third-party publishers) is available in the SRD. That's a huge bonus right there.

This thread says a bit about the differences between 3.5 and Pathfinder.

The most notable ones (to me):

General changes:
- No more cross-class skill penalty (having to pay twice for the same amount of skill). Many skills got grouped together (Perception replaces Spot, Listen and Search, Acrobatics replaces Balance and Tumble etc.)
- Feats at every odd-numbered level, resulting in more feats (and thus more customization).
- Concentration is no longer a skill, and rather a caster level + ability score check, and thus much harder.
- Nothing costs XP anymore, and you can't permanently loose levels or ability scores due to anything.
- No more XP-penalty for multiclassing. Instead you get to choose one favored class, and for each level you take in it you get +1 HP, +1 skill point or something else depending on your race/class.
- Power attack is now more limited by your BAB. Ranged combatants get Deadly Aim, which works like Power Attack for ranged weapons (and is a huge boon for them). Arcane Casters get Arcane Strike, which trades a swift action for a minor damage boost based on caster level.

Old Classes:
All classes get a large amount of archetypes - those swap out a set of class features for something else. That allows great customization.

- Barbarians get Rage powers - special effects that only work while raging. However, rage is now measured in rounds/day rather than activations/day, which is generally a nerf.
- Bards get slightly better spells, but bardic music is now measured in rounds instead of activations. The archetypes are nice, but generally bards are worse off mostly due to the bardic music change.
- Clerics no longer start out with heavy armor proficiency. Turn Undead is now Channel Energy, which has more uses (including healing)
- Druids can now pick domains instead of an animal companion. The latter got nerfed a bit. Shapeshifting, and therefore Wild Shape, now just gives a bonus to attributes and extra abilities instead of replacing your attributes - a much needed change, making druid balance much better.
- Fighters get class features that improve armor and weapons. The most notable is that they can move at full speed in heavy armor.
- Monks are now actually a decent class. They get Ki, which is a limited daily resource that can be spent for various effects. More importantly, Flurry of Blows now works much better - for the purpose of using it (and combat maneuvers), monks are effectively a full-BAB class.
- Paladins no longer need Wisdom. Smite Evil is now a great ability that buffs you for the entire encounter, rather than working on a single strike. You can also forgo your mount and forge a divine bond with a weapon instead.
- Rangers get some new class features and their animal companion scales better.
- Rogues now have their sneak attack work on (almost) everything. They get Rogue Talents from level 2 at every second level, which allow huge variety. However, everyone can now find and disarm all non-magical traps, but Rogues are still better at it.
- Sorcerers now get to choose one bloodline (arcane, draconic, shadow and much more) that grants them extra feats, extra spells known and extra class features.
- Wizards now get powers based on the school they specialize in.

New Classes:
Gish-classes are spellcasters that only get 6-th level spells and have medium BAB. The Bard is one as well.

- Alchemists are an arcane intelligence Gish-class caster class that work their magic via potions and magic bombs.
- Cavaliers are mounted leaders and chargers. They get a challenge ability that is similar to the marks of D&D 4
- Gunslingers use gunpower weapons. The way they are written actually allows you to use them without giving such weapons to anyone else.
- Inquisitors are a divine wisdom Gish-Class mix in some skill-monkey abilities.
- The Magus is an arcane intelligence Gish-class that focusses on casting spells in melee while wielding a weapon in one hand and a spell in the other. They gain a daily arcana pool which can be used for various abilities, such as remembering an already cast spell. They can also cast in light and eventually in medium and heavy armor.
- Oracles are full divine spontaneous charisma-casters. They gain a specific weakness (such as impeded sight or movement) for a large array of boni.
- The Summoner is a full arcane charisma caster that focuses (surprise!) on summoning. They get Summon Monster as a spell-like ability, but their notable features is their Eidolon: a customizable creature that they can have active at all times.
- The Witch is a full arcane intelligence caster that mostly focusses on debuffing via her hexes.

Archetypes:
As mentioned, those provide a huge amount of variety.
For example, a Bard could be an Archaeologist and trade Bardic Music for trapfinding and rogue talents, or an Arcane Duelist and eventually learn to cast in medium and heavy armor. A Barbarian can trade his mobility (fast movement, uncanny dodge) and learn how to use heavy armor particularly well.
Each class has about a dozen options for archetypes, and as a long as they don't affect the same class feature you can take multiple archetypes.

[Stofsk]

I kinda feel that Pathfinder is 3.5.1 rather than 3.75, which I think SW Saga edition falls under (as in, something that is half way between 3.5 and 4th edition).

[Solauren]

I will have to disagree about the rounds per day vs uses for the core class skills.

Generally it's 2 + additional 2 rounds per class level (i.e Rage). Meaning That a 10th level Barbarian can rage for 22 + Con modifier + feat augmentations if any per day.

How long does your average fight in D&D last? 2 - 3 rounds. At 10th level, that would be 10 or more activations per day.

[Darmalus]

What does Gish stand for?

I'm really liking what I see so far. That link was really handy, thanks Serafina!

[Serafina]

The term "Gish" originally was short for "Githyanki", and referred to arcane spellcasters that fought in melee. (Githyanki are a race of monsters who like to do just that)

In it's modern iteration, it simply refers to a character that fights with both weapons and magic spells. Those spells are generally more about hindering the enemy or buffing ones own combat abilities rather than direct attacks. It's thus more of a playstyle than a set of classes - a cleric can be played as a gish, but also as a pure caster.

Pathfinder has several classes that specialize in this style of combat.

Most notable is IMO the Magus. A Magus fights by channeling arcane spells trough his weapons, wielding a weapon in one hand and a spell in the other. Mechanically this is expressed via two abilities: Spell Combat and Spell Channeling. The former allows him to make a full attack at a -2 penalty and cast a standard-action spell at the same time. This can also be done in a defensive manner, making the Magus supreme at casting defensively.
Spell Channeling allows him to make a weapon attack instead of a touch attack as part of a spell (such as Shocking Grasp). While this might seem like a bad idea initially, it does mean that you get your weapons enhancment bonus, relevant feat boni etc. to the attack. More importantly, you can use your weapons critical threat range for the purpose of critical hits with your spell - so if you wield a Rapier of Scimitar, you can easily crit with 1/3rd of all your spells, doubling their damage.
In addition to this, the Magus can also cast in light (and later medium and heavy) armor.
He also gets an Arcana pool (half level +Int modifier). He can use it improve his weapons enhancement bonus or grant it special abilities initially. Later on he can learn to recall spells he has already cast by spending arcana points.
A Magus can also Magus Arcana, which grant him a variety of boni - bonus feats, boni to attack, new spells etc.


Other classes work in a similar fashion, but i am much less familiar with them. Here is a handy collection of guides, which can easily give you an overview over Pathfinder classes.

[Imperial Overlord]

The term "Gish" originally was short for "Githyanki", and referred to arcane spellcasters that fought in melee. (Githyanki are a race of monsters who like to do just that)

To nitpick, "gish" is the Githyanki term for warrior-mage types. Since "gish" covers the entire concept and not just one class combination and is just four letters long, the term caught on and stuck.