General D&D question - worth of 1 GP in USD

[Blayne]

Anyone got any impressions what a GP in D&D might be worth in todays US currency?

[Panzersharkcat]

(OOC: Err. Are you actually joining in? In any case, it'd be too difficult to determine because I don't think we know how big a gold piece is or what the supply of gold there is.)

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Will post separately on any in-game stuff soon.

Very OOC:

Blayne:

I'm sorry, there seems to be a misunderstanding- this is the thread for a specific RPG game, not for general RPG questions. It's a reasonable thing to ask- but it deserves its own thread in Off Topic or Gaming and Computers.

[Blayne]

[Ah sorry my bad, I thought the thread was about designing a homebrew system which I thought sorta made general D&D questions applicible, carry on, ignore.]

[Blayne]

Poking around it seems that the worth of 1 GP may be roughly 320$ in USD, based on 1 GP being similar to a spanish gold dubloon and then calculating its gold by modern prices.

If this is accurate than the 500gp cost of raise dead in USD is 160,000$ which fascinates me, as it seems accurate. 160k$ in liquid funds is arguably outside the reach of 90% of the population while True Ressurection would be put at 3,200,000$ and Lichdom at 96,000,000$

So despite the D&D economy being fundamentally flawed some prices do seem to have an semi-accurate correlation.

Thoughts?

[Jaepheth]

You're talking two different universes. Gold may not be so rare in your D&D Universe and also doesn't have the same utility (no electronics industry); so using the price of gold in this universe to estimate the comparative price of currency in another world doesn't make a lot of sense.

It'd be better to do a comparison of commodity prices of goods that exist in both universes (though our use of industrial machines and mass production may need to be accounted for by using the prices of "artisan" goods).

example: 1 pint of ale in D&D world maybe 2GP
1 pint at a US bar is probably about $8 (I don't go to bars, so I'm totally guessing)
result: 1GP ~ $4

A cheap dagger from a D&D street vendor may be 10GP
A cheap dagger off an internet vendor is probably about $15
result: 1GP ~ $1.5

You can keep doing this with a multitude of various items and services until you get a fairly good average.

[Mr Bean]

Note that gold pieces were very... VERY rarely solid gold and currently gold is very highly overvalued at the moment by a factor of three to eight depending on which economist you talk to. So quarter that and say a 80$

And the SRD lists all sorts of prices but keep in mind it references copper and silver pieces which if your a pure gold piece economy you won't be using.

I've always translated it in my own head for simplicity sake to say a gold piece was worth about 100$ in those campaigns where modern items came into place (Nothing says fun like sending the party right from the Dungeon to San Fransisco in the 80s for a few days, amusing you only ever do it once and have a good reason)

For comparison here's some SRD prices and the real world equivalents
Backpack (2gp) RL=20$
Bucket (5sp) RL=15$
Hammer (5sp)= 9.99 for a cheap one 25$ for a good one

These are all guidelines and in any sense you free to use your own as my little example demonstrates 1=100 does not work perfectly unless your buying designer handbags or titanium buckets but it gets close enough to let people keep it strait. Who wants to deal with 1 gp =320$ any more than 1gp = 457 dollars or 129.53?

[Ralin]

I don't feel like doing it again right now, but like four or five years ago I got bored and worked out that, going off the international price of gold at the time and the listed cost of gold as a trade good in D&D 3.5, one GP equals about 200 USD.

[Erik von Nein]

Considering the prices of D&D products are incredibly inconsistent in the first place reasonably extrapolating the trade value between USD and D&D gold is futile.

I mean, why do you want to know?

[Mr Bean]

Considering the prices of D&D products are incredibly inconsistent in the first place reasonably extrapolating the trade value between USD and D&D gold is futile.

I mean, why do you want to know?

To provide an exchange rate for non-SRD covered items. Because DM love that kind of thing, because someone said so.

As for inconsistency of course prices are inconsistent. Price are not identical in the real world let alone a mythical world. Hell within five miles of my home I can buy the same bucket for six different prices and my goods are not delivered by wagon pulling peasants or magical unicorns.

But you CAN mock up a baseline, something so when your players want to buy something odd you can give them a price and not cheat them or give them to good of a deal.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Anyone got any impressions what a GP in D&D might be worth in todays US currency?

According to the D&D 4th Edition Player's Handbook, 10 gold pieces weigh one pound. Which means one gold piece will weigh 1.6 "regular" ounces, which is approximately 1.76 troy ounces. According to goldprice.org as of this posting, the value of 1.76 troy ounces of gold is $2,852.08 US.

[lance]

I think in 3.5 a gp is a 50th of a pound

[Blayne]

Considering the prices of D&D products are incredibly inconsistent in the first place reasonably extrapolating the trade value between USD and D&D gold is futile.

I mean, why do you want to know?

Largely out of :sperg: and to see what the real world cost of raise dead would be. A common D&D joke is that if a spell calls for XGP worth of Y and you bargain the merchant down and got a deal the DM would still argue that you still don't technically have XGP but the bargain price of Z, so you still can't cast the spell until you have X.

Example: "Master I got a deal on gems! I managed to buy 500gp of gems for 450!" "Excellent but now we're short 50gp worth of gems for the spell, go back and get another 50gp's worth!".

And it does seem to match up quite nicely, in your typical setting like Greyhawk or Faerun Raise Dead is supposed to be economically out of reach for 90% of the population, preliminary calculations back this up for the real world as well, I mean, if someone you know died who do you know would have 160,000$ lying around?

[D.Turtle]

So you found a single case of using a certain value for a GP possibly matching up with a real world case? Congratulations! I'm sure there is no way at all that a different value would work with another real world comparison at all.

[/sarcasm]

[Erik von Nein]

To provide an exchange rate for non-SRD covered items. Because DM love that kind of thing, because someone said so.

As for inconsistency of course prices are inconsistent. Price are not identical in the real world let alone a mythical world. Hell within five miles of my home I can buy the same bucket for six different prices and my goods are not delivered by wagon pulling peasants or magical unicorns.

But you CAN mock up a baseline, something so when your players want to buy something odd you can give them a price and not cheat them or give them to good of a deal.

Dude, chillax, I was referring to stuff like 10-foot ladders being cheaper than two 10-foot poles, the wonkiness of the costs of some of the other adventuring gear, how much peasants are supposed to be able to make and how much goods and services cost. Srsly, the 3.5 economy is strange shit.

But, yeah, dude, if you're looking for some extrapolation I guess you've got it.

EDIT: Also, I was asking why he wanted to know so I'd have a better understanding of what he was trying to do with such a system.

[Blayne]

So you found a single case of using a certain value for a GP possibly matching up with a real world case? Congratulations! I'm sure there is no way at all that a different value would work with another real world comparison at all.

[/sarcasm]

The goal isn't to get the perfect answer but to get a answer that is consistent with our perception. For example look at how falling damage is calculated.

[D.Turtle]

The goal isn't to get the perfect answer but to get a answer that is consistent with our perception. For example look at how falling damage is calculated.

And my point is that you can probably find a fitting example for pretty much any exchange rate you can choose. There is no need to search for some complex reasoning as to why a certain value is ok. Simply choose an arbitrary value that fits.

And I have no idea what falling damage has to do with this topic.

[Blayne]

We probably could but this is more fun? Also noticing the cost of raise dead is consistent in real terms isn't to see the value as okay but is more of the goal in of itself because its interesting to dwell on.

re: Falling damage there have been efforts to more accurately model it via physics calculations and while more accurate they are close and consistent enough with how it is currently done that we're all better off just using the simpler rules in the DMG.

[Erik von Nein]

Wait, the cost of raise dead is consistent with real terms? The heck does that even mean?

[Simon_Jester]

Nothing about D&D is especially realistic, or designed to be realistic. It is designed to enable play, not to be analyzed by picky pedants. Simple rules allow you to play, whereas complicated rules get in the way of the experience of play. The DM plays a critical role too, because many D&D rules that are theoretically useful would become horribly useless and dumb if they were applied robotically without DM judgment.

So basically, there are no consistent laws of physics in D&D. There's a combination of Wile E. Coyote rules, rules that exist so that the people in-setting can be toyed with by intangible outsiders, and rules overridden by a capricious and functionally omnipotent god whenever they become inconvenient.

About the only thing it'd be more pointless and hard to analyze this way would be Calvinball...

And it does seem to match up quite nicely, in your typical setting like Greyhawk or Faerun Raise Dead is supposed to be economically out of reach for 90% of the population, preliminary calculations back this up for the real world as well, I mean, if someone you know died who do you know would have 160,000$ lying around?

I'd take out a loan on their future earnings, or my future earnings if I cared about them that much. It's not like people can't buy houses that cost more than that.

[Purple]

Considering the prices of D&D products are incredibly inconsistent in the first place reasonably extrapolating the trade value between USD and D&D gold is futile.

I mean, why do you want to know?

To provide an exchange rate for non-SRD covered items. Because DM love that kind of thing, because someone said so.

Should that not be dictated by how hard the DM wants them to work for the item? As in, if its a trinket the DM does not care about it should be what ever cheap. But if it's something important (or that can become important later without the players knowing it) than the price rises.

[Mr Bean]

Should that not be dictated by how hard the DM wants them to work for the item? As in, if its a trinket the DM does not care about it should be what ever cheap. But if it's something important (or that can become important later without the players knowing it) than the price rises.

It depends on your players
For example MY players four years ago (Part military part civilian) played two of the three campaigns like they were the damn A-Team. And I mean every major encounter featured a build portion and after the first time of them being clever I let them run with it and modified a few scenarios so they could have a day or two to put together the medieval equivalent of the armored panel van with log cannon turret. But how does one go about pricing sixty tons of soil, a few tons of lumbar a hundred peasant labors and two hundred shovels (They assumed breakages and thefts) the transport costs for everything so they throw up a temporary damn upstream of the evil fortress of evil so they could raise the water level then break the dam and flood the downstream Castle and it's crypts of full of corpses and cultists.

I needed a rule of thumb for how long and how much such a crazy plan would cost and it was not the only one they came up with. But look on the bright side, what was once a simple dungeon crawl now had turned into a crawl through a partially underwater castle where the few cultists who were magical or lucky enough to escape the rapidly rising waters were clustered in the center keep while below leaderless undead attacked anything that came near in pitch black chest high waters on the upper levels and the bottom two levels were completly flooded requiring a change in player style as the crossbow rogue became useless as did the fighter.

[Havok]

You're talking two different universes. Gold may not be so rare in your D&D Universe and also doesn't have the same utility (no electronics industry); so using the price of gold in this universe to estimate the comparative price of currency in another world doesn't make a lot of sense.

It'd be better to do a comparison of commodity prices of goods that exist in both universes (though our use of industrial machines and mass production may need to be accounted for by using the prices of "artisan" goods).

example: 1 pint of ale in D&D world maybe 2GP
1 pint at a US bar is probably about $8 (I don't go to bars, so I'm totally guessing)
result: 1GP ~ $4

A cheap dagger from a D&D street vendor may be 10GP
A cheap dagger off an internet vendor is probably about $15
result: 1GP ~ $1.5

You can keep doing this with a multitude of various items and services until you get a fairly good average.

First of all the question is how much is a D&D GP worth in OUR world. If you know the size, purity, weight of the GP then it is all about what it is worth HERE, and has nothing to do with what it gets you in D&D or what it is used for, or its rarity there.

Your beer comparison is retarded. Along with the rest of them.
If I walked into a bar and gave a bartender a piece of gold for a beer, I would drink all night on that piece. And probably every time I came back.
Assuming that a GP looks like the pictures I have seen in old D&D books or what is in like a LOTR movie, its bigger than a quarter and maybe the size of a half dollar coin. So it probably weighs from a third to a full ounce.

That suggests that a D&D GP is anywhere from $500-$1600 USD based on current gold prices and assuming that the purity of the gold they use is comparable to our standards.

[Blayne]

Should that not be dictated by how hard the DM wants them to work for the item? As in, if its a trinket the DM does not care about it should be what ever cheap. But if it's something important (or that can become important later without the players knowing it) than the price rises.

It depends on your players
For example MY players four years ago (Part military part civilian) played two of the three campaigns like they were the damn A-Team. And I mean every major encounter featured a build portion and after the first time of them being clever I let them run with it and modified a few scenarios so they could have a day or two to put together the medieval equivalent of the armored panel van with log cannon turret. But how does one go about pricing sixty tons of soil, a few tons of lumbar a hundred peasant labors and two hundred shovels (They assumed breakages and thefts) the transport costs for everything so they throw up a temporary damn upstream of the evil fortress of evil so they could raise the water level then break the dam and flood the downstream Castle and it's crypts of full of corpses and cultists.

I needed a rule of thumb for how long and how much such a crazy plan would cost and it was not the only one they came up with. But look on the bright side, what was once a simple dungeon crawl now had turned into a crawl through a partially underwater castle where the few cultists who were magical or lucky enough to escape the rapidly rising waters were clustered in the center keep while below leaderless undead attacked anything that came near in pitch black chest high waters on the upper levels and the bottom two levels were completly flooded requiring a change in player style as the crossbow rogue became useless as did the fighter.

That sounded like an awesome campaign, in my group my character is something like a commando (eventually going for the dread commando prc so I can run while still stealthed in heavy armor) and I bring with the group supplies to make temporary forts roman style for when we're far from town. Though I haven't had the chance to build a fort yet :(

I wonder how difficult it would be to invent a steam engine in D&D and make steam powered tanks? Not too hard in Dragonlance where you have tinker gnomes who'll take apart a wagon and put it back together with a steam engine attached (somehow!?) but they tend to explode.

[Mr Bean]

Steam engines all have an excellent chance to explode because medieval materials are not exactly set up for quality assurance and the instant you get a leak your steam engine either kills the tank drivers or just sits there. And that assumes your not in a situation where the gods take an active hand in sabotaging technology. (One of the old FR books in 2nd edit or first gen 3rd ed mentioned that technology that advanced to far would be actively hindered by the gods, seals that should hold failing, weather turning nasty, materials spontaneously catching on fire, the only reason they put up with Gond is his love of Rube Goldberg style inventions rather that actual advancements)