Mass Effect Revisited

[Havok]

So, I have been wanting to do this for a while.

I am going to play through Mass Effect and compare and contrast to the 3rd installment that I am still grinding through the multiplayer for.

I'm going to update as I go and only things I feel are significant to the comparisons.

[Havok]

To start off...

The game, inside the Normandy looks just as good as ME3, in fact it has a much more sci-fi feel and a far less utilitarian feel.

The Normandy is fully staffed and there are glowy lights and crazy buttons everywhere that can't be reached.

I also was immediately impacted by a far stronger RPG feel due to the simple use of the little destination/objective radar.

I also forgot about the motion blur and film grain settings. Geez, are these in ME3 and I didn't notice?

[Stofsk]

To start off...

The game, inside the Normandy looks just as good as ME3, in fact it has a much more sci-fi feel and a far less utilitarian feel.

Can you elaborate?

[Havok]

The refitted SR2 is dark and has wires and cables running all over the place. It has an Alien/Aliens feel to it. The SR1 has a brighter more streamlined look. Not quite the IBridge from Trek 09, but much more inviting than foreboding.

I think it is the "gritty gives more respect" thing that happened over the course of the games lifespan as people started saying OMG GREATEST SCI-FI OF OUR GENERATION blah blah blah.

[Havok]

First planet, Eden Prime.
Looks good. I mean, the graphics difference is obviously better in ME3, but certainly not leaps and bounds.

And Oops, looks like someone screwed up some gun names. The Avenger used to be a sniper rifle and the current Avenger was called the Lancer.

[Havok]

Skill tree: More varied and complex. I'll get into this more in a bit as I get more points to spend through leveling.

Combat: I actually like the cover system so far. I can see how the MasterChief players wouldn't like it, as you go into cover if you are still pushing forward on the controller as you contact cover spots, but for a more "realistic" player, it works.

Man, no fucking clips or reloading. Wait for your damn weapon to cool off, but if you feather the throttle you can but a ton of shots down range. Such a waste of a cool, no pun intended, system/mechanic.

[Stofsk]

First planet, Eden Prime.
Looks good. I mean, the graphics difference is obviously better in ME3, but certainly not leaps and bounds.

Not surprising, they're both the same engine, just ME3 (and ME2) were better optimised.

And Oops, looks like someone screwed up some gun names. The Avenger used to be a sniper rifle and the current Avenger was called the Lancer.

Whoa are you saying that the later games retconned stuff from ME1? :V

At least you don't have to scramble around looking for thermal clips on the floor.

[MrDakka]

Man, no fucking clips or reloading. Wait for your damn weapon to cool off, but if you feather the throttle you can but a ton of shots down range. Such a waste of a cool, no pun intended, system/mechanic.

Just pick up the Snowblind ammo and the barrel upgrade and or heat sink upgrade and you can fire forever (I'm assuming you're talking about the assault rifle). You can be a machine gun god.

Of course that doesn't mean shit when you're on foot with five Geth Juggernauts on your ass firing their rockets backed up by the Colossus because you thought ramming was a viable tactic...

For me, Mass Effect had more Oh Shit! moments that just seemed grander compared to the other two. The feel of the game is just different.

[Serafina]

Just to say it again:
I despise the ammunition mechanic change in Mass Effect.
First of all, it doesn't make a lick of sense in-universe. Sure, for some guns that tend to overheat often, reloading "thermal clips" would be a good option. But for sustained-fire weapons, near-unlimited ammunition is godsend. Which apparently no one realizes and keeps the old cooling mechanic, not even for backup-weapons in case your main, more powerful gun runs out of ammo.
Second, it took away some of the futuristic feeling - in exchange for some more "gritty-real" stuff, which doesn't work if it doesn't make sense in-universe. It also removed immersion (to me at least) due to relying on universal ammo that is miraculously dropped by everyone and lies around everywhere.
Third, it didn't add any useful or interesting game mechanics.

Easy fix for all of the above problems:
You only use up heat clips when you overheat the weapon - hit reload, spend a heat clip, and you don't have to wait for your weapon to cool down. That's what they are supposed to do in-universe, it gives you a limited resource (which is apparently what the designers wanted), you don't use so many so you don't have to put clips everywhere and you still show how your guns are superior to current ones.

/end rant

[PeZook]

The one thing that I miss from ME1 immersion-wise is the little hidden loading screen when you enter the Normandy. It's meaningless in-game, but makes you feel like the Normandy is actually a ship that's part of the game world, rather than the "hub" and storage compartment for your mates. It also enhances the military feel of the game with some cool jargon.

[Stofsk]

Yep, I loved the 'fade to black' thing and even if decontamination was just a white light, I don't care. Way better than a loading screen. On that same token, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks, I liked the elevator scenes.

ME1 had a lot of good ideas, and a lot of bad ideas, but it seems that everything good about it was discarded by Bioware for its sequels, and everything bad about it was made x10 worse. ME2's gameplay feels smoother and the classes feel way more distinct, but that's about the only good thing it added.

[PeZook]

The way they handled armor in ME2 and 3 was better, IMHO. No more "sixty dozen suits to tediously compare before you finally nail down the one which is clealry superior to all the others", although the bonuses of each piece were pretty unbalanced as well, and for some reason they couldn't fucking decide on what to do with the damn helmets despite the answer being completely obvious

BTW, was anybody else annoyed at the fact Cortez in ME3 flew the shuttle into combat while wearing his casual deck outfit?

[Losonti Tokash]

Man, I'm probably one of the biggest ME fans on this board and even I think ME1 is an ugly, clunky game. Going back to it from 2 was unpleasant enough but now with all the playtime I have in 3 it's just baaaaad. The weapon heating mechanic was neat, but Bioware just couldn't get it to balance properly which is why they scrapped it. They tried the hybrid system during development of 2. It both confused playtesters and made the combat even more piss easy than it already was. It's still in the files of 2, so if you want to try it on the PC version you can enable it there.

The powers are both underwhelming AND overpowered which is some kind of achievement. The engine can barely chug along when shit isn't flying around and even just going around the citadel it's pretty unstable with NPCs falling through the ground and texture pop in every few feet because they had to make some pretty extensive hacks for it to even be possible. Then you've got all those completely empty planets with a bunker for "exploration," that godawful inventory system, and literally all the guns being identical with different stats, and the only advantage I'd say ME1 has over the sequels is Wrex as a squadmate. It's just such a bad game nowadays.

[PeZook]

You forgot the awful minigames, but they kept that for 2

[Losonti Tokash]

They made them better in 2, and got rid of them completely in 3. More evidence of the gameplay improving over the series. :p

[Skywalker_T-65]

While I haven't played ME3 yet, I can speak on the ME1 to ME2 comparison (at least the X-Box version anyway). Personally, I preffered the original game to a certain extent, but some things in ME2 were better. The graphics and squadmate interaction for example (Tali for instance...alsmost no lines in ME1 but is a major player in the second one).

And while ME1 had a bunch of empty worlds with just bunkers...how is that any different than ME2 with its 'one mission then you leave' planets? At least in ME1 you could explore nicely rendered (for the time) planets. And I may be in the minority who actually liked the Mako. Just not driving over those darn mountains that every planet needed...

As for the minigames...annoying, but not too detracting from the experience. More on this later.

EDIT: Plus ME1 didn't have planet scanning...can't forget that!

[PeZook]

The problem is that ME1 exploration was a fake timewaster with literally NOTHING TO DO. It was the scanning minigame cloaked in Mako. Seriously, think about it: what purpose did the driving around thing serve? You STILL had one mission per planet anyways!

[Skywalker_T-65]

Meh, I just liked the pseudo-exploration feel. Plus the Mako was acutally fun, until you hit the many...many...mountains. And yeah, I'm not saying it was better than the ME2 version, just not really much different (comparing it to the scanning thing just drives that home).

[Losonti Tokash]

Dude those planets were ugly, empty places with cool skyboxes. For maximum laziness, they were made with a random heightmap for those absurd mountains. And like Pezook said, planet scanning is literally just a streamlined version of what you already did in ME1. In both you just go around the planet looking for resources, find some dudes, kill them for nebulously defined reasons (or none at all) and then leave. Driving around on the planet itself just gave you extra loading screens and took ten times as long. Yay.

[PeZook]

If they wanted the Mako to be meaningful, they'd have made a smaller number of planets, but included something to accomplish using its abilities: assault unique mountain strongholds by driving up sheer early vertical slopes, venture into canyons full of dangerous wildlife/environmental hazards, fight running armored battles across rolling plains, chase down and ambush enemies etc.

For example, you could have a partisan operation where you'd have to hit an enemy convoy, grab whatever mcguffin it carried and then high tail it out to rendezvous with the Normandy, using terrain to avoid enemy sensors and pursuing forces. Sprinkle in some pickups, etc.

Or search for a crashed ship by following a distress signal, while avoiding dangerous areas (like thresher maw nests). You know, things that are different and present challenges other than "drive straight for five minutes, get out, play a minigame, get back in".

[Stofsk]

Dude those planets were ugly, empty places with cool skyboxes. For maximum laziness, they were made with a random heightmap for those absurd mountains. And like Pezook said, planet scanning is literally just a streamlined version of what you already did in ME1. In both you just go around the planet looking for resources, find some dudes, kill them for nebulously defined reasons (or none at all) and then leave. Driving around on the planet itself just gave you extra loading screens and took ten times as long. Yay.

I'd rather drive the Mako than scan planets.

Also, 'find some dudes and kill them for nebulously defined reasons'? Most of the side missions in ME1 had Hackett tell you why you were there.

[Losonti Tokash]

Holy shit dude, you're right. Those ideas would even have fit in with the Normandy being a stealth frigate meant for literally that sort of missions instead of just being Shepard's pleasure yacht.

Stofsk: i'd rather drive the Mako, too, if there was anything interesting to do with it. Well, I'd actually prefer the Hammerhead with some shields on it, but same difference. Hackett's briefings were the better side missions, but a lot were just "roll up on this bunker and kill everybody, it may or may not be connected to something." And none of them were relevant to anything else except for a couple mission chains like the Rachni, Geth, and Cerberus stuff.

The Cerberus stuff is pretty funny too, since the devs even said they just made up a group of recurring human bad guys and had no idea they were going to become what they were in the sequels.

[Stofsk]

Stofsk: i'd rather drive the Mako, too, if there was anything interesting to do with it. Well, I'd actually prefer the Hammerhead with some shields on it, but same difference.

I like the Mako more than the Hammerhead because the former had personality.

Hackett's briefings were the better side missions, but a lot were just "roll up on this bunker and kill everybody, it may or may not be connected to something." And none of them were relevant to anything else except for a couple mission chains like the Rachni, Geth, and Cerberus stuff.

Even those seemingly random ones had SOMEONE point you to them. Like the one where Nassana Dantius' sister is with her pirate gang. You can just crash into that without getting contacted by Dantius, but that's usually because most people go straight to Artemis Tau Cluster to pick up Liara, and well that side mission is in the same area. But you can get contacted by Dantius if you don't go to that planet right away.

Some of the other side missions are unlocked in the other two quest worlds. Like the one with Exogeni scientists doing experiments on Thorian creepers. There's at least some tie-in most of the time. One reason I like the elevators is because you get quest notifications during some of them. I loved that. You're riding along and then you get the breaking news alert about Chairman Barnes' ship getting jacked by biotic extremists. Stuff like that really pulls you into the game IMO.

The Cerberus stuff is pretty funny too, since the devs even said they just made up a group of recurring human bad guys and had no idea they were going to become what they were in the sequels.

Well to be honest, the number one reason the mass effect sequels suck shit is because the writers were clearly making it up as they were going along - and Cerberus is a great example of that. Having Shep die in the first five fucking minutes of ME2, only to be reborn as Space Jesus, and then only to be railroaded into joining Space Al'Qaeda after meeting Space Osama is horseshit. Especially if your Shep had the sole survivor psych profile.

(as an aside, I get the feeling Lair of the Shadow Broker was written by someone who didn't have his head up his ass, because what's-her-name throws your hypocrisy in your face about that shit. Lair was just a great DLC period, hell I wish Lair was ME2 instead)

I'll give you that ME1's gameplay is clunky as shit, its inventory system was horrible, it's equipment selection was boring and uninspired and in many ways ME2 (and I guess ME3?) improved on the gameplay in that regard. But there's something about ME1 that just had... I dunno, had potential. Like for example, the Mako, and all your complaints against that. So the Mako drove around barren moons for the most part (I actually liked that, it was the empty garden worlds that irritated me and the evil fractal landscape that infuriated me), it was still a neat concept that just needed work. But Bioware just chucked it out. Or your previous point about the heat/cooldown mechanic 'not being balanced right' according to the devs. That just sounds like Bioware dodging the issue or spinning some bullshit. Couldn't get the balance right? What does that even mean? The only real balance issue I can recall from ME1 was putting double frictionless materials Xes into a gun and firing for eternity. How is it too hard to balance that? Frankly if that's what Bioware said regarding the reason they took that mechanic out and introduced the thermal clip system, all I can say is it's weak.

[Losonti Tokash]

Man, I don't even know how ou can say the Mako had personality compared to the Hammerhead when at no point does the Mako tell you "bovine herbivores are no match for guided missiles." And the issue with the side missions is they're just so out of place. "Hey mr famous spectre can you go kill my sister/rival crimelords/neighbor's dog, thanks." And then Shep takes a break from hunting Saren to go kill the neighbor's dog on an irradiated wasteland. In 3 they're directly relevant to the plot and have actual production values as opposed to "here's one of the 3 indoor locations and some generic bad guys, the biggest one being named 'crime boss.'"

One of the major advantages to the thermal clip system is it encourages the player to move around in combat and use more than one gun, as opposed to 1 where combat was a biotic alpha strike followed by murdering everyone with the pistol.

Agreed on Shadow Broker, though. Definitely the best mission of the whole series and if they'd kept to the level of quality present there and in the Tuchanka arc from 3 the games would be pretty fantastic.

[Anacronian]

When i finished ME 1 i thought the game was flawed but overall good and best of all it had great potential once it got refined - Sure the Mako was annoying in places and it was comically that your team mates were so fond of shooting you in the back, But these were all things i thought would be improved due to the natural evolution of going from part 1 to 2.

Instead when ME 2 rolled out it seemed to me that the game had devolved, Gone were the open world aspects, Instead of replacing the Mako with a shuttle or just reworked the planetary maps to make the Mako not so annoying they had just simply removed it all, loot which were overabundant in ME1 (mostly because of the I-X grading) had been replaced with a bare minimum - Hell you couldn't even put some armor on most of your team mates -instead you were forced to run around with people who had goddamn spandex on in firefights like goodman superhero's while your Shepard were forced to wear bulky armor to survive.

On and on in every department ME 2 just seemed smaller, The story seemed smaller, The universe seemed smaller and any type of exploration you had in ME1 had been replaced by corridors filled with 3 types of mercenaries.

ME 3 is in my book just an outright catastrophe from start to end with only two good parts (Tuchanka and Rannoch).