Rome Total War 2 - I called it

[Vympel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKglskMf ... r_embedded

The close-ups show the faces of soldiers as they call out to each other – panicked expressions, faces contorting, the dread and hardships of ancient war evident in their eyes. Every soldier is an individual, every soldier experiences pain, fear, exhaustion. It's not easy being in the Roman legions. Zoomed out, it is hard to comprehend how the thousands upon thousands of moving specks against the landscape could possibly be the same soldiers whose faces were shown earlier. The camera swoops over a Roman city, up hills, into a bay; naval fleets meet land and thousands more specks swarm the city.
The build of the game we're shown may be far from its alpha stage, but this much is clear: Total War: Rome 2 is big in more than one way.
"This is the first time we've designed a city of this scope and scale," says lead designer of Total War: Rome 2, James Russell.
"It's a massive project for us. It's got a big budget, bigger than any Total War game we've ever made. It's also very new for us, because we have the combination of ship and land and there will be multiple capture points that will make things more interesting."



Aside from being the biggest project The Creative Assembly has worked on, it is also arguably one of the most anticipated. The first Rome-themed Total War game was released almost a decade ago, and while fans of the series have been able to enjoy multi-empire domination in Empire: Total War and ancient Japanese wars in Shogun and Shogun 2, Rome has reserved a special place in the hearts of many real-time strategy gamers.
"Everybody identifies with Roman culture," says Al Bickham, studio communications manager at The Creative Assembly.
"Everyone goes through school and knows what a Roman soldier looks like: red cloak, helmet with a crest on it. It just occupies a special place in your imagination. Film and TV has dealt with Rome, the world has been fascinated with Rome since Rome fell. Historically it's an incredibly fascinating period and a period in which individuals changed the world."
"I think it's not so much ancient as much as it's melee; it's about melee swords and spears versus direct fire gun warfare."
While the fascinating characters of the period may have drawn people to the first Rome game, it's the mixture of fighting styles on the ancient battlefield that kept them playing.
"I think there's lots of interesting combined arms tactics on the battlefield in the ancient world," James Russell says.
"In terms of things like ancient versus modern warfare, I think it's not so much ancient as much as it's melee; it's about melee swords and spears versus direct fire gun warfare. When you have strong melee combat you do get that sense of impact – it's not that kind of defensive standoff where you're just shooting at the enemy – there's an impact, and I think that gives the battles a certain feel."
Russell believes that melee battles make the player feel more connected to the enemy, making the game more interactive and forcing the player to consider not only what weapons they use, but how they move.
"I think warfare throughout the ages offers all sorts of interesting tactical questions, but there's something special about the Roman era where this huge array of different cultures clashed that really gives it a magical flavor," he says. "You're trying out nomad horse archers against heavy legionaries. There's something special about that."

PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES
Empire: Total War was the largest Total War game as far as geographical scope was concerned. Total War: Shogun and Shogun 2 zoomed right in to focus on the battles of the Shogun era. The developers at The Creative Assembly have learned from their earlier works and have tried to find the sweet spot between Empire and Shogun to nestle their biggest game yet. They've learned that as inspiring as it was to represent an enormous geographical scope in Empire: Total War, there were consequences to having such enormous geographical expansion. Players were handed entire empires to manage from the word go, and this made the game less accessible. In Shogun 2, the team was able to make the game more manageable, but there wasn't nearly as much variety in the game in terms of cultures, cities and environments.

In Total War: Rome 2, players will build their own empires from scratch, starting small and building up. The Roman era also opens up a variety of cultures; players can create their own Barbarian city that will look and fight completely different to the Romans. Players can take on any culture, Rome can be the arch enemy, anyone can change history. And while The Creative Assembly are implementing changes to improve the game's design, they're also pushing its spectrum further than any Total War game.
"We want to push that emotional interaction between them and have them behave in a more life-like way, so when my buddy gets hit by an arrow, I react to that."
"Having that whole spectrum, right from the human level on the ground to that huge scale, we want to push both ends of the spectrum," says James Russell. "So on a human level you see the unit cams where you put the camera down into the unit, you see the individual men fighting, you see the facial animations on the soldiers and we haven't had that before in battle in that way.
"We want to push that emotional interaction between them and have them behave in a more life-like way, so when my buddy gets hit by an arrow, I react to that. It's about really making that, the combat, feel real and visceral and human.
"And then you zoom out and you have things we've never had before. You have the scale of the city that we've never had before, you have multiple ships in each naval unit, combined battles with ships and ground units and the fact that you can bring your men from the ships onto the beach, all that stuff it's about pushing both ends of that spectrum in the battle."
Russell says that the introduction of naval battles is a game changer because players will now have to think tactically both on land and at sea, or both when the two meet. The pushing of the spectrum to include a unit cam is also more than an aesthetic choice. While the aesthetic choices exist to make the world feel more alive and make players feel more invested in their soldiers, there are also practical applications.

"We know the unit camera is only going to work if it's not just aesthetic choices," Russell says. "You're not just going to have a look for fun, we want to make sure there are gameplay incentives for doing that.
"Effectively, attention becomes a resource like in many strategy games. If you focus on improving situations, like ‘This unit must really hold and we must go in there and see what the situation is', that means you're not spending your attention on something else, so there's always that dilemma of how and where you focus the attention."
"We want the battles in Rome 2 to be the most awe-inspiring sight you've ever seen in a video game."
The camera pans out and the thousands upon thousands of specks: the individual soldiers, each with their own expression, each with their own fears, charge at each other. The specks clash, and the first of many battles ensue.
"From the perspective of the battles, we want the battles in Rome 2 to be the most awe-inspiring sight you've ever seen in a video game," Russell says.
"I think we can achieve that by showing this human-level drama and really pushing the whole spectrum and drilling down into life-like, individual, man-level behaviour and making those guys feel more human and real, and going right up and having this incredible scale.
"We want it to be breathtakingly spectacular. I think we're getting there."

I don't understand why this article talks about Rome, Empire, Shogun - but not Medieval. Anyway.

[Broken]

Excellent news, depending on specs this game may push me into upgrading my graphics card.

[ray245]

I really hope I can command a legion that actually have 4000-5000 men in it. It would be nice to see the scale of the battles in Total War increased to a much more epic scale.

[Fire Fly]

Excellent news. But I swear to the gods that if I don't see a somewhat proper Constantinople city map this time around, I'm going to be pissed.

[ray245]

Excellent news. But I swear to the gods that if I don't see a somewhat proper Constantinople city map this time around, I'm going to be pissed.

I don't see that happening, unless they want to extend the period until the early Byzantine era. We might see that in a expansion pack or a DLC.

I wonder if Thanas is having a meltdown after seeing the new live action trailer.

[Raesene]

Hoping for an early releae in 2013 is probably futile...

[Kingmaker]

Did they ever sort out the pathing issues? It was bad with RTW, and it felt like it got progressively worse in M2TW and Empire.

Nothing quite like having your entire army get stuck on the walls to make storming a city exciting.

[DarkArk]

Hoping for an early releae in 2013 is probably futile...

Why would you want it to? Apparently it will be released in 2013 at some point, but I hope CA take as long as they can with it.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07 ... interview/

Apparently land and sea units can now fight in the same battle. Really hoping that the rumors that they are creating historical cities for sieges are true.

Also anyone thinking now that FotS was just a way for them to get 2+ years to work on Rome II?

[Steel]

Also anyone thinking now that FotS was just a way for them to get 2+ years to work on Rome II?

Every single TW game has had an expansion of this sort, this was not an abnormal move.

[Thanas]

Excellent news. But I swear to the gods that if I don't see a somewhat proper Constantinople city map this time around, I'm going to be pissed.

I don't see that happening, unless they want to extend the period until the early Byzantine era. We might see that in a expansion pack or a DLC.

Yeah, BI 2 is most likely IMO.

I wonder if Thanas is having a meltdown after seeing the new live action trailer.

Why? It was very well done and actually very intriguingly shot.

[DarkArk]

Every single TW game has had an expansion of this sort, this was not an abnormal move.

Yes but none of them in the most recent time frame have had the expansion take up the new release slot for the year. Also none of them were as large or cost as much as FotS. So yes I think from a business decision it made sense to give themselves more development time for Rome II, since even from two screenshots it's clear that the game is going to require a lot of effort to get right.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/ ... twr21b.jpg

I mean look at that, that's Carthage! The return of city battles and what is likely a unique map for all the major cities of the era. That can't be done in a year.

[Thanas]

I'd be very surprised if other cities besides the capital ones of the factions involved get this sort of extensive treatment. I can only see them do this for the following cities:
- Rome
- Carthage
- Alexandria
- Athens
- Sparta (though that might be kinda hard )
- Thebes
- Alesia/Gergovia, depending on which one they chose
- Londinium
- Tarraco/Carthago Nova, depending.....
- Antioch
- Pella
- Ctesiphon

The vast majority will just be randomly generated cities IMO.

[DarkArk]

The vast majority will just be randomly generated cities IMO.

Sure, but that's still more work than went in to the castles in Shogun 2. Which had a grand total of three different map types and then Kyoto which had the ahistorical Nijo-jo (which was the wrong era at that).

Also those cities will likely have different development levels, unless the main campaign only takes place over 100 years. Also the many different cultures which will have to have their own architecture. The major question will be if the cities are a part of the campaign map like Rome I or have their own area like in Shogun 2.

At this point I hope that Egypt is its proper self, and not that crap it was in Rome I.

[Thanas]

The main problem I see is that some factions will get an insane advantage over the AI just by virtue of their cities. I mean, just taking the seven hills would most likely screw up any AI.....never forget actual fortress cities. Other factions meanwhille will be impossible to defend (Hello Sparta, I hear you hate walls).

[DarkArk]

But isn't that also historical? Some factions will have advantages due to geography like they did in history. That would just give the player many different challenges. Give Spartans ridiculous stats to compensate .

Though in terms of AI that was one of the major advantages of the Shogun 2 sieges, the AI knew how to deal with them. Will be amusing to see people complain about the opposite now.

I'm also excited for cities finally being on the coasts and being capturable by sea like they should be.

[Thanas]

It is historical, but having an indefensible capital is going to be game breaking unless you tell the other AI not to attack said faction's capital. Otherwise, I know which faction is going to be wiped out first....

[Zinegata]

Maybe the Spartans will have a ridiculous infantry unit that only they can build again?

[RogueIce]

At this point I hope that Egypt is its proper self, and not that crap it was in Rome I.

Egypt was way more interesting the way they made them than playing Greek Faction #6, history be damned.

It is historical, but having an indefensible capital is going to be game breaking unless you tell the other AI not to attack said faction's capital. Otherwise, I know which faction is going to be wiped out first....

Granted I haven't played any TW games since...well, Rome I. But unless they've totally changed things don't you still build improvements and stuff on the campaign map? So Sparta could, in theory, build a wall?

Besides, it's not like TW games have ever been strict on their historical accuracy in the first place. Well, that and Sparta was but one city amongst the Greek Cities faction (albeit all your starting family members were So-and-so of Sparta) so the Spartans may not even be a totally seperate faction. Guess we'll see.

My main concern is what the system specs are going to be on something like this. Is it going to require a Future Computer or something that average-ish systems of today could handle?

[ray245]

I wonder if Thanas is having a meltdown after seeing the new live action trailer.

Why? It was very well done and actually very intriguingly shot.

I am getting the Spartacus vibe from the trailer.

At this point I hope that Egypt is its proper self, and not that crap it was in Rome I.

Egypt was way more interesting the way they made them than playing Greek Faction #6, history be damned.

Well, most RTW mods actually manage to make the Egyptians both Greek and unique at the same time. A little bit more historical research into Egyptians and their armies would have allowed you to have a lot more unique units to play with.

Granted I haven't played any TW games since...well, Rome I. But unless they've totally changed things don't you still build improvements and stuff on the campaign map? So Sparta could, in theory, build a wall?

It would be interesting if they actually implemented internal strife within a faction. Any attempt to break with a faction's tradition and culture might result in a civil war. In this case, you would need to build up a lot of political power and influence before you can make any sort of sweeping chance.

[ray245]

The main problem I see is that some factions will get an insane advantage over the AI just by virtue of their cities. I mean, just taking the seven hills would most likely screw up any AI.....never forget actual fortress cities. Other factions meanwhille will be impossible to defend (Hello Sparta, I hear you hate walls).

Well, modders might manage to find a way to get the AI pathfinding to work on their Minas Tirith map, I think it might be possible to see an AI being able to figure out how to attack Rome.

[weemadando]

Also anyone thinking now that FotS was just a way for them to get 2+ years to work on Rome II?

Don't try and act like FotS wasn't the best TW game since Rome.

Rock Paper Shotgun has LOTS of coverage and the next PCPP will feature it too.

[Thanas]

I wonder if Thanas is having a meltdown after seeing the new live action trailer.

Why? It was very well done and actually very intriguingly shot.

I am getting the Spartacus vibe from the trailer.

I don't really. First, none of them look like the bodybuilding club and there was no nudity. Second, it seemed to be more of the usual "Romans do dastardly things to each other" type.

[DarkArk]

Don't try and act like FotS wasn't the best TW game since Rome.

Honestly I like normal Shogun 2 more. FotS felt not quite complete to me. Should have put in more effort and content and made it a $50 title.

Also been confirmed over on TWCenter that the game is over a year from release. So it's going to be a while.

[RogueIce]

Well, most RTW mods actually manage to make the Egyptians both Greek and unique at the same time. A little bit more historical research into Egyptians and their armies would have allowed you to have a lot more unique units to play with.

Blah blah mods whatever. I never much cared for EB and the like because, well, they went crazy what with a few million buildings and all that crap. Plus it took forever to load. That and their "we're hardcore history nerds and here's the proof" means I can't even tell what faction is what by name alone. There's a lot to be said for the more 'casual' way vanilla TW games handle these things when you consider this is, in fact, a game and not a historical simulator.

So my point was that CA is perfectly willing to bend history to make things playable/more interesting and as such I don't see any reason why Sparta can't have a wall.

[ray245]

Well, most RTW mods actually manage to make the Egyptians both Greek and unique at the same time. A little bit more historical research into Egyptians and their armies would have allowed you to have a lot more unique units to play with.

Blah blah mods whatever. I never much cared for EB and the like because, well, they went crazy what with a few million buildings and all that crap. Plus it took forever to load. That and their "we're hardcore history nerds and here's the proof" means I can't even tell what faction is what by name alone. There's a lot to be said for the more 'casual' way vanilla TW games handle these things when you consider this is, in fact, a game and not a historical simulator.

So my point was that CA is perfectly willing to bend history to make things playable/more interesting and as such I don't see any reason why Sparta can't have a wall.

I am not even talking about EB. There are a lot of mods that are quite aracade friendly, and yet at the same time, still a lot more historical than vanilla RTW.

Roma Surrectum 2 would be one of them.