Who is following #1 reason

[The Yosemite Bear]

well twitter is currently full of female game creators posting under the hash tag of #1 reason, talking about sexism in video games.

wondering about the rest of the board and what your oppinions, and discussions.

edit apparently it got started over someone's kickstarter indy game that was being turned out by women and the vanadlism, and evil comments they were getting.

[Grumman]

Could you post a link, for the benefit of Twitter newbies?

edit apparently it got started over someone's kickstarter indy game that was being turned out by women and the vanadlism, and evil comments they were getting.

Could you be thinking of this?

On the topic in general: I'd love to have more games with women as protagonists. I don't care for Tropes vs. Women in part because I think that increasing the presence of women in games is a better way of achieving her goals than pointing fingers at the portrayals she finds lacking, and also because from what I've seen she sucks at making an effective argument.

[TheFeniX]

On the topic in general: I'd love to have more games with women as protagonists. I don't care for Tropes vs. Women in part because I think that increasing the presence of women in games is a better way of achieving her goals than pointing fingers at the portrayals she finds lacking, and also because from what I've seen she sucks at making an effective argument.

Her argument, for me at least, is "Why aren't there more explosions in this Romantic Comedy?" back when I did a bit of reading on it. She also seems to think that "Video Games" is one genre. The backlash against her is/was way out of hand though. The backlash against women in general is way out of hand. I can only assume that many males who dealt with shit through school for gaming are reacting violently to the intrusion to a medium they have dominated, but I'm just spitballing here.

I think it's a pretty bad two-way street though. A game I've heard brought up is Mass Effect 1 where the female NPCs will fawn all over Male Shep as soon as he takes interest in them. However, I played a Fem Shep and on my second playthrough, decided to romance Kaiden for grins and was treated to pretty much the exact same fawning once Shep broke through his brooding about the Biotic program. Characters pawing at the main character is a pretty standard bit in most of these games, no matter the gender.

There's just loads of lazy stereotyping is most media that crosses all demographics. Writing characters with depth seems to be out of the average game devs ability and stereotyping cuts out development time that could be better spend on more hilariously bad physics.

Right around 2000, I think it was like 85% young males playing video games. The demographics have shifted a lot over the years, and more women are playing, but the only bits I've found was that the number of female gamers was being bolstered by casual games like the Sims and later Angry Birds and other games like that. Gaming is also a much more acceptable hobby to have these days as the Wii and Xbox was able to pull in a lot of men and women who wouldn't previously touch a console. It's going to be tricky to find games that appeal to both men and women at the same time.

If anyone has any data, I'd love to see it because I can't find much. But it seems the games being targeted for sexism are the most popular among young and adult males. And even though women make up 42% of the market, they aren't buying those games and devs aren't willing to lose out on the demographic they have to try and woo women over to these games.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

If you make a product that alienates an audience, can you really use the fact that that audience isn't buying that product as a reason not to remove the alienating features? Maybe if those features weren't there, they might buy the product!

This study gives women as 47% of gamers and 48% of frequent game purchasers.

[Covenant]

I've been following it time to time, and it's really terrible that people are facing so much sexism in what should be a relatively genderless development atmosphere. While you may be selling games to a large amount of men you don't need to act like ogres to make them.

The #1reason thing is less about the sexism IN games than it is in the development world of games, or of the culture surrounding them, which includes (but is not exclusively) the content of the games. Some comments I've seen are confusing, like people talking about how they're upset there aren't more people like them in games, when I can literally count on zero fingers the amount of times I've been able to play a protagonist I could see as "me" in any definable way that doesn't boil down to the most stupid superficial crap. I think there's a lot of resentment that doesn't really come out in elegant prose, but that it boils down to finding it hard to feel comfortable in the industry when the product and the production seems to revolve around debasement and disenfranchisement of women.

Broad terms but in such a large industry it happens.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

While it may seem silly and irrational, the "I want more characters like me" thing actually touches on something important. I wish I could find the studies I've read, but the fact that the typical protagonist and/or sympathetic character with the most agency in fiction is a white male can have big effects on how people view the world, let alone how much people can enjoy the work.

And I have to admit I find enjoyment in that sort of thing. Having major characters be female, or even something as relatively meaningless as left-handed, can make me enjoy games more.

As to the work environment itself, it's sadly unsurprising. One thing I'm curious about is if the same effect is seen in the American comic book industry. Both have a huge culture of sexism where women aren't even allowed to be considered part of the general culture without going through extensive proof.

[Covenant]

I suppose having had so many white male protagonists in games I don't really approach the concept of the protagonist from an outsider perspective, I just assume I'm supposed to be here and I move on from there. It's hard for me to understand why the gender or color of my protagonist really matters. I could get into a role more if they really, really seem like me and come at a situation the way I do, but it's just probably that I'm so used to seeing white dudes that, if I didn't happen to be one, it might be exciting.

I've seen it in my girlfriend's reaction to stuff that has a female character, but I find that somewhat annoying as well--she has a much harder time even watching a movie that doesn't have a strong female lead. I don't get it I guess. I didn't feel upset when playing Portal 2 just because the only vaguely male character in the entire thing was a dumb-as-rocks AI sphere. Same goes for movies. I dunno! But I think, again, it has to come from the fact that I already don't feel like an outsider.

In my company's games we do try to deliberately choose a variety of characters and perspectives to broaden the characterization you see in them. Hopefully in a long enough time everyone will be in the same place as me and no matter who the protagonist is they don't feel like they don't fit.

[Vendetta]

I didn't feel upset when playing Portal 2 just because the only vaguely male character in the entire thing was a dumb-as-rocks AI sphere. Same goes for movies. I dunno! But I think, again, it has to come from the fact that I already don't feel like an outsider

Also, if you play a game without a strong male lead, well, the other 999/1000 will have.

[xthetenth]

I find it a bit telling that I'm white and male and by far the majority of characters I play who don't fit that description were because I chose them in games with character selection or creation. Honestly, other than Tomb Raider and Metroid I can't think of any games I've played not on PC with a female PC, and of my steam library only Mirror's Edge, They Bleed Pixels and King's Bounty: Armored Princess have female player characters (and that game's cover art pretty much invalidates it as an argument for games being progressive).

My steam library has more franchises than that each with more games in them than that. I don't mind playing as a woman in Portal 2 or Mass Effect or whatever I'm playing in the slightest because dammit, video gaming is supposed to be about seeing and experiencing new things, and white male protagonists are as a group stale as hell.

[Vendetta]

Checking down my list of Xbox games, 12/238 have non-selectable female leads (and I counted two japanese shooting games where the character select options are all female).

That's not good numbers.

I couldn't be arsed to count the ones that were non-selectable white males.

[Havok]

Protagonists like me? Are there ANY video games that have protagonists, male or female that are like them?

Second thought... perhaps that is why angsty Japanese type stuff does so well, because they are all mostly awkward and whiny and mildly idiotic when it comes to protagonists.

[Ford Prefect]

Do you really need a pie graph that shows how the overwhelming majority of video game protagonists are white men?

[xthetenth]

It wouldn't be bad. It's one thing to go oh yeah, that's most of them and another to go, no that's nearly all of them.

The best thing is I identify with characters who aren't close to me just because when they're like me I start viewing them as me and when differences get brought up it starts causing all sorts of dissonance.

[Havok]

Do you really need a pie graph that shows how the overwhelming majority of video game protagonists are white men?

Are you addressing that towards me or just in general to the thread?

[Block]

I'm curious, am I supposed to identify with all white men? I find that idea vaguely racist.

[Stark]

The best part is the only game I've played lately that had an asian protaganist was about a guy who stalks women and assists the sex trade.

[Havok]

I just downloaded Sleeping Dogs. Asian protagonist cop trying to infiltrate the Triads. It seems like it is set up with a strong female lead as well, but it was only the demo so I am not sure.

[Stark]

I just downloaded Sleeping Dogs. Asian protagonist cop trying to infiltrate the Triads. It seems like it is set up with a strong female lead as well, but it was only the demo so I am not sure.

You are so off base its not even funny. Wait till you get to the 'bug the phone of a woman who blew you once weeks ago' mission. The game is deeply fucking disturbing and Wei is a horrible cunt.

[Havok]

well like I said, it was only the demo. It's all done now. What about the female cop though? Does she end up being significant?

[Stark]

She comes back in the bizarrely irrelevant post-game cutscene which reiterates that Wei is struggling to be a good man in a bad town.

What with all the stalking, sex slavery and mass murder he does.

And dude he seriously stalks a hostess because he heard she was seeing someone else. He hadn't even spoken to her since. Actual textbook behaviour. Its impossible to imagine the writers were unaware of how this makes him look.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I'm curious, am I supposed to identify with all white men? I find that idea vaguely racist.

I'd be willing to talk about this, but first I'm just going to ask if you're the kind of person who rejects the concept of racial/sexual/etc. privilege since that could make it more of a hassle than it's worth.

[Havok]

She comes back in the bizarrely irrelevant post-game cutscene which reiterates that Wei is struggling to be a good man in a bad town.

What with all the stalking, sex slavery and mass murder he does.

And dude he seriously stalks a hostess because he heard she was seeing someone else. He hadn't even spoken to her since. Actual textbook behaviour. Its impossible to imagine the writers were unaware of how this makes him look.

Huh... a stalker protagonist, now that is something I think nerds playing video games actually could relate to.

[Block]

I'm curious, am I supposed to identify with all white men? I find that idea vaguely racist.

I'd be willing to talk about this, but first I'm just going to ask if you're the kind of person who rejects the concept of racial/sexual/etc. privilege since that could make it more of a hassle than it's worth.

I'm going off the basis that I'm a Jew of Russian descent and have absolutely nothing in common with oh let's say a Dutch person or even other Russians considering my family(Grandparents) made it out of Mother Russia about a day ahead of a Pogrom, and that I've faced open anti-Semitism in the US including having been asked by North Carolinians if I drink blood to keep young once they found out I was Jewish, they'd heard that from their Southern Baptist preacher.
So yes, I would be curious to see exactly how I'm supposed to identify with all white males by default.

[Losonti Tokash]

Something that Stark and I missed the first time we played is that at the end of the mission you have the option to stuff her inside of your trunk.

[Stark]

Huh... a stalker protagonist, now that is something I think nerds playing video games actually could relate to.

Its all ok because a codex entry reveals she's a slut anyway so SERVES HER RIGHT.

No I'm being 100% serious. And in a game where a major theme is pressuring people into the sex trade!

Then again, I believe upon meeting a sex slave he decides to give her to sex slave traffickers to see what happens. He's a great guy all round.