WarZ Released, Is Blatantly Unfinished And A Bit Crap

[Zaune]

Gamespy

Hammerpoint Interactive's The War Z shot straight to the top of the Steam Top Sellers' list after its surprise "Foundation" launch yesterday, and it's remained there throughout today. Despite its apparent success, all was not well in this post-apocalyptic zombie survival shooter land. Steam users who've bought The War Z, and those who'd bought into the alpha/beta period via the official site, quickly pointed out that the Steam store page made a series of promises that the game itself just doesn't keep. We got in touch with Hammerpoint's executive producer on The War Z, Sergey Titov, who spoke to us via IM to discuss the situation, how this incident came about, and what Hammerpoint plans to do about it. What he has to say indicates what appears to be a combination of a not-so-firm grasp of the English language and a startlingly cavalier attitude toward truth in advertising.

Before we dive into the transcript, which we're presenting only slightly edited to repair the overlapping chaos that inevitably happens in IM conversations and patch up some broken English, here's a brief summary of the events that led us here: Where the Steam store page promised multiple maps ranging in size from 100 to 400 square kilometers, buyers found just one roughly 100 square km map. Where it promised 100 players per server, it delivered just 50. Where it promised rentable private servers, levelable skills, and friends lists, there was simply nothing available but menu screen placeholders. That means that thousands -- likely tens of thousands (based on Steam's concurrent players stats) -- purchased this game while under the impression that had features it simply doesn't.

While the store information was amended this morning to move most of those claims -- except for the 100-player servers -- to an "upcoming features" section, that's a shocking breach of trust from the Steam's store, which has in the past been reliable when it comes to describing features. We've contacted both Valve and Hammerpoint for comment. Valve has yet to respond regarding its policy for fact-checking developer-supplied feature lists. We'll keep you posted on that, when and if we get a response.


GameSpy: Nice to meet you, Sergey. I have some questions about the Steam release of The War Z. It has been pretty irregular, and has raised a lot of concerns, and allegations of fraud. The description that was posted yesterday, and left unchanged for approximately 24 hours, promised numerous features that simply don't exist at the moment. During that time, The War Z became the top-selling game on Steam. So thousands of PC gamers purchased a product that made promises it couldn't deliver on. What led to those promises being made on the Steam store page, and how do you respond to people who are angry about being misled?

Sergey Titov: Our Steam store description contained information about what game features [were] planned for 2012-early 2013 content updates. Some of the features have been in game for a while, so -- actually two major things -- server rentals and Skill Trees, didn't make [it] into the game yet. This being said we've realized that layout and presentation of this information needs to be changed on the Steam page, which we did today in the morning. After we did it, we [are] still enjoying being [the] Number One top-grossing game on Steam at the moment. So my point is, yes, I'm sure that few players maybe be upset, but I can assure you that based on what we're seeing number of people who post bad comments are [a] small percentage of people who actually bought [the] game.

GameSpy: There's also the issue of the max players per server, which appears to be 50 in our testing but is still promised as 100 on the Steam page. It also claimed multiple areas of between 100 to 400 square kilometers, but delivered only one area of around 100 square kilometers. I'm sure that many people do enjoy playing The War Z, but the issue isn't whether it's a good game or a bad game. It's a matter of truth in advertising.

Sergey Titov: Max players -- I'm not sure why this is even an issue. [The] text clearly stated "up to 100 players." And 50 players [which] we have right now -- is what our players -- our community feels is comfortable level for them to play. We had it at 40, we've raised it to 70, and after that we've asked our players, "What you want this number to be for Colorado map?" Over 90,000 players took [the] survey and most of them said -- 50. This is why this number is set to 50 right now. Yet -- on your own private servers you will be able to set to 100 if you want . Size of the area, once again, come on -- [the] first map is over 100 sq km . So [the] text is right. And for our next big map, California, we're testing map size of 420sq km.

GameSpy: The original text, which was up for a day, claimed "A huge persistent world: The War Z is an open world game. Each world has areas between 100 to 400 square kilometers." "Each world" implies multiple worlds. "Areas" is plural, again implying multiple areas. It currently delivers just one area that does not approach 200km in size, much less 400. And do you not see it as a problem for the store to claim that I can play on a 100-player server, yet when I buy it, I am limited to playing on a 50-player server?

Sergey Titov: Okay -- if text is saying "up to 100 players" -- yes, I may imagine situation when somebody will say "okay it HAVE TO BE 100." "Over 100 sq km" falls in "100 to 400" right? Okay my point is -- online games are [a] living breathing GAME SERVICE. This is not a boxed product that you buy one time. It's evolving product that will have more and more features and content coming it. This is what The War Z is.

GameSpy: I understand that. It is now a common practice for a game to add more features in the future. However, that is not what happened here. What happened here is that Hammerpoint claimed, through Steam, that these features exist today.

Sergey Titov: I'm sure there'll be people who will look into small details and will say "no I was mislead," where in fact they imagined something to themselves without checking details first. I'm sure that Steam have it's refund policies that should handle those situations.

GameSpy: Steam is actually very stingy about refunds. However, in an unusual case like this, I imagine they'll be forced to make an exception. Does Hammerpoint have a system in place to refund customers who feel they've been misled by unfulfilled promises?

Sergey Titov: Hammerpoint, since its early stages of Alpha, provided refunds to players who can't play game for some reasons. We've granted refund to even those players who come top us and said -- your game is shit. And if we went and see that he played like 20 minutes, we've refunded him. Yet if somebody have played like 5-10 hours and decided he doesn't like game - we clearly didn't provided refunds to them. In [the] case of Steam -- it's up to Steam to decide if they provide or not refunds. I mean -- we do not have access to that part of the Steam ecosystem.

Let's be frank: when you read "up to 100 players" -- what does it mean to you personally? I mean, for me it doesn't mean that I will play with 99 other players. Really And yes game supports 100 players -- heck, it supports actually over 400 players per server as of today. Do we have servers launched with this number of slots? No we don't, because this is not what our players WANT.

GameSpy: Yes, frankly, it absolutely does mean that the game will support 100 players. Anything less is a false claim. You could just as easily claim your game will support up to a million players, and then say "Well, 50 is between one and a million." It would be absolutely fine for you to tune your game to what your players have told you that they want. What is not fine is for you to tell potential buyers that they will be able to do things in your game that they simply cannot do as it exists today. What you've done is the same as telling someone that the car you're selling can go 100mph, when in fact it can only go 50mph.

Sergey Titov: And we've corrected text on Steam. As I've said -- it was done less than 18 hours after we've started selling game. After that -- after text was changed -- over 7 hours passed.

GameSpy: Steam still says -- I'm looking at it right now -- "Up to 100 players per game server." That is a false claim.

Sergey Titov: Let me ask you -- what YOU think we should put there, since we do not know what number of slots will be on official servers tomorrow -- 20,30, 50, 70 or 100?

GameSpy: I think you should put the minimum you can deliver. If you deliver more, that's a bonus that no one can claim they were misled about. If you deliver less, you have failed to deliver on a promise.

Sergey Titov: Okay good point -- so you think that if we'll have server with 100 players up and running it means we've delivered even if everybody will hate it ?

GameSpy: If you believe everyone will hate it with 100 players, it is totally reasonable for you to turn down the maximum number of players. It is not reasonable for you to tell me I can play with 100 players and then only allow me to play with 50 players. Who is responsible for updating the Steam page text? Hammerpoint or Valve?

PR Rep: They do the actual updates based on info we send.

GameSpy: So, will you be sending them an updated version of the text that specifies that A) the current player cap is 50, and B) that this is a "foundational release," and not what people have come to expect of a finished product?

Sergey Titov: We have several private servers with over 100 slots on them. I think we [will] just tune it down to 100 slots and make it available to public. This is right thing to do as I think. We have demo servers with 130 and 150 players on them. But it's internal at the moment. I've asked if we can add them quickly to public pool.

Update: 100-player servers are now confirmed online.

GameSpy: That would be good. Will you be issuing an apology to people who purchased The War Z under the impression that features that are planned for the future exist today?

Sergey Titov: I think we'll do that by sending them personalized emails and explaining what to expect from the game now and in upcoming weeks/months. Bottom line - this is issue that affected at most few percent of active War Z audience and thus it should be dealt with on [a] case-by-case basis.

GameSpy: So, no public apology for misleading people on the Steam store page?

Sergey Titov: Actually we've already posted explanation on our forums that is available to public.

GameSpy: This post doesn't address the fact that there were false claims made.

Sergey Titov: I think there's difference between false claims and perception of the text.

GameSpy: There does not appear to be a reasonable way that this could be read any other way, when the sections are titled "About the game" and "Key features," and both contain things that do not yet exist.

Sergey Titov: Ah ok. Yes we're going to post about fact that information on the Store page was presented in incorrect format/layout. That was our mistake obviously. Which we've corrected early morning today.

Update: Titov has posted a new apology on The War Z's forums. However, it claims that we "misread information about game features," not that Hammerpoint incorrectly stated that features would be included.

GameSpy: Mostly corrected. Again, the Steam page still makes no mention of the fact that this is a "Foundation release." It is simply labeled as "The War Z."

Sergey Titov: What's difference ? I mean -- I'd love to adjust that BTW -- I just personally don't see what difference does it make? Ie -- THIS IS "THE WAR Z" game. It's not like there'll be "final release" or anything like this.

GameSpy: Then why was the press release sent out calling it a Foundation Release instead of simply a release?

"There's no such thing as 'Release' for an online game."
Sergey Titov: This is what we call it. There's no such thing as "Release" for an online game. More important - you can't just add "foundation release" or any other words to the title of the game on Steam. It's like -- The War Z is a title of the game. We can of course add VERSION in ABOUT GAME section....

GameSpy: So as far as you're concerned, The War Z is officially out of beta and fully released, correct?

Sergey Titov: Nope - there's no such thing as "fully released" for online game. As far as I'm concerned The War Z is in stage when we're ready to stop call it Beta. This is basic version - bones that we're going to add more and more "meat" - features and content in a coming months and hopefully years.

GameSpy: By "fully released," of course, I mean as released as any online game is at its official launch. For example, when PlanetSide 2 removed its beta label and opened its doors to the public, it was considered fully released even though it will obviously continue to evolve.

Can you tell us where we should direct players who are upset about inaccurate promises should go to request a refund? Should that be done through you, or through Steam support?

Sergey Titov: They should contact Steam support - we can't refund Steam payments since we do not have access to Steam for that. The way Steam works -- they're acting like any other retail outlet -- they sell the game, get payments from customers, they process refunds, fraud, etc and once in awhile they send us money with reporting on how many units were sold, fraud/refunds, etc... If [a] player bought [the] game from us directly -- they should use e-mail, phone numbers, or support website that's included on their receipts -- this is due [the] fact we're using numerous of payment providers.

GameSpy: Alright, thank you Sergey. We will pass that along. We appreciate your time.

Sergey Titov: As for information about Steam webpage -- we'll post [an] official explanation to our forums, and yes we'll apologize for presenting information in a way that allowed different interpretation. Such as "up to 100 player' issue -- clearly you think about it one way, myself and other people I just asked think it's totally acceptable to say this. But once again -- I personally think that bottom line is -- do we have happy players or not. At the end this is what we're aiming for.


Yes, we can all agree that happy players are the end goal of any game developer. But how you get there does matter, and this kind of behavior, whether it's negligence and miscommunication/mistranslation or (less likely in this case, because if so, why would he even talk to us?) a scam -- is completely unacceptable from game makers. What's even worse, though, is that Hammerpoint has cast a shadow of doubt over the other Steam store pages. Are they really not policed at all? It would seem not. Again, we'll let you know if we hear from Valve on that.

The other burning question right now is: is The War Z any good? Our thorough investigation -- aka "review" -- is underway now, so we'll let you know ASAP what we think of it. It should be noted, though, that even this kind of shocking behavior won't automatically deduct points from its score. Especially now that the Steam store page will (hopefully) be accurate by the time our review is posted, the review and score will be based on the condition of The War Z at the time.

While we wait for their review, here's one from some guy called TotalBiscuit:

[Losonti Tokash]

Aren't these the same developers who complained about being killed by "camping faggots" in their own game?

[Zaune]

I'm not sure, though it sounds highly plausible. They are allegedly the same developers behind Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing, though.

[Vendetta]

Is anyone surprised that a blatant attempt to copy Day Z, which is boring and crap, is boring and crap?

[KhorneFlakes]

I don't even know why people like DayZ. DayZ is quite frankly an example of what happens when people gather around a shitty game/movie/product. They'll completely fail to learn anything from criticism, because anything that suggests that their speshul game/movie/product is bad or just outright shit is verboten to them.also apparently heretical

But yeah, I'm not surprised. I watched some videos of the game, and it's pretty obvious to the point that even a person who hasn't heard of DayZ or WarZ could figure out that WarZ is a blatant attempt to copy DayZ. Only even more shit.

[Stark]

That's not really fair. DayZ is barely a game and has little content, but the people who played it were able to experience some interesting situations before they realised the developer was an idiot. This game, by contrast, is a rip AND doesn't work AND is made by an idiot.

[Vendetta]

Well yeah, Day Z is an alpha that was never intended for or ready for release and was free, whereas this is a paid for release on Steam which also has real money microtransactions for items that are deleted if you die, and also isn't ready for release, since many of the features on the steam product description aren't there yet.

[Stark]

Its my understanding it's so broken heaps of the microtransactions don't even work yet; so not only are the game features incomplete, the actual revenue-generating shit is too. I guess he figured he had to cash in on the zombie branding before everyone got over it?

Luckily, Dead Island exists. :V

[weemadando]

Considering that there have constant stories and "leaks" over the months about how the devs had simply reskinned their existing game and were intending to pull in as many real money transactions as they could, then shut down the game as it was "costing too much to run" after 4-6 months, is this really surprising?

[bilateralrope]

It's been pulled from Steam and Valve are offering refunds to anyone who wants one. But only if you ask for one.

Controversial zombie survival game The War Z has been removed from Steam.

Although there's still a listing for the game on Valve's digital distribution service, you can no longer buy it.

Fans have been clamoring for the game's removal from Steam since it was released on Monday. Many gamers have criticized the game for its misleading description, controversial microtransactions, and forum censorship. For more on the War Z debacle, check out our full roundup.

Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, Valve issued the following statement:

From time to time a mistake can be made and one was made by prematurely issuing a copy of War Z for sale via Steam. We apologize for this and have temporary removed the sale offering of the title until we have time to work with the developer and have confidence in a new build. Those who purchase the game and wish to continue playing it via Steam may do so. Those who purchased the title via Steam and are unhappy with what they received may seek a refund by creating a ticket at our support site here.

Update 2: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, War Z boss Sergey Titov also sent over a statement:

We're making sure that our Store page is 100% correct this is why.

Bottom line – our end goal is to have satisfied and not angry customers, so this is more important for us than everything else.

[KhorneFlakes]

That's not really fair. DayZ is barely a game and has little content, but the people who played it were able to experience some interesting situations before they realised the developer was an idiot. This game, by contrast, is a rip AND doesn't work AND is made by an idiot.

I did think I might of been too harsh there. But yeah, the developer is stupid. Also boring. Although on the subject of zombie stuff, I've always wondered what attracts people to the zombie "genre", asides from zombie fetishism or fattynerds, as people here like to call them?

I honestly don't know, because when I take a look, it always seems to me that everyone hopped on just because they heard the word zombie, or because the devs said there were zombies/game bio on the back of the case/has zombie or z in the title.

I'm actually rather fascinated by by it. I really want to know why exactly people are so interested asides from the typical reasons.

[Stark]

If you were cynical you might say it's because zombies are the perfect no threat enemy that still makes people feel big and tough for defeating.

[KhorneFlakes]

Oh, and there's that.

[Vympel]

I love it how WarZ got pulled from Steam but SotS2 didn't when it was released in an arguably even more broken state. Sure, the SotS2 developers weren't as actively mendacious (i.e. "we're sorry you're retarded and didn't understand our in no way dishonest features list"), but is it really relevant?

[Vendetta]

Well yeah. Many of the countries in which Steam operates have laws which say that you're not allowed to lie about the product you're selling, and it would be Valve that would be liable for that because the legal burden is on the retailer.

[Stark]

Yeah, SotS2 actually contained turns, and spaceships, and sliders. The engine was entirely broken and it crashed all the time, but it wasn't actually lying (and lets face it everyone who bought it knew the devs were idiots anyway). But when people buy a game because they see BULLET POINT abc and it's actually not in the game at all, that's outright illegal. It probably doesn't help that rather than say 'oh shit you got me', the guy tried on the whole 'well actually YOU'RE THE BAD GUYS here', which wouldn't have endeared him.

[weemadando]

I love it how WarZ got pulled from Steam but SotS2 didn't when it was released in an arguably even more broken state. Sure, the SotS2 developers weren't as actively mendacious (i.e. "we're sorry you're retarded and didn't understand our in no way dishonest features list"), but is it really relevant?

Fray. Fray got released in such a state that most players could not even get to the main menu.

But hey, their very careful curation of the library has clearly been working.

[ryacko]

Cortex Command was released on Steam with a bit of outcry.

Mainly from people who bought it, and was hoping that version 1.0 would actually be better then version 0.6.

I wonder if Valve has a pre-screening process of any kind sometimes.

[Stark]

Because their business model is based on selling huge quantities of low cost shit, maybe? People are obviously happy to buy broken ass shit from steam. This guy's game is just particularly egregious.

[bilateralrope]

To make matters worse, the USPTO has a problem with them using the name War Z.

UPDATE: EXCLUSIVE: “War Z” trademark SUSPENDED - Game will have to be renamed

***This is the first site to report this***
***Update at the bottom of the post - Sergey Titov once again shooting himself in his own foot***

There is something interesting showing up if you check the “United States Patent and Trademark Office” website for the “War Z” trademark that has been registered by OP Productions.

The trademark application by OP Productions for the name “War Z” has been SUSPENDED because the trademark office feels that the name is too similar to the name of Paramount Pictures upcoming movie “World War Z”.

See the suspension notice for yourself:


Source: http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85682 ... atusSearch

What does this mean ?
*The name will very likely have to be changed because it is too similar to “World War Z”.
*If the trademark attorney feels that the similarity is too big, it’s obvious that Paramount Pictures may legally forbid the use of “War Z”.
*The trademark was only filled in July 2012, further evidence pointing towards that this game has been in development for only 6 months.
*They have received the suspension letter on 15th November 2012 already, so they know for over a month now that their name has to be changed.
*Paramount is already developing their own video game based on “World War Z”.


Thanks to the anonymous mailer who sent me these information regarding the “War Z” trademark. It’s in the interest of the mailer to make customers aware that they can fill a complaint against Arktos Entertainment Group and OP Production for their actions regarding false information, lies about their Alpha/Beta status and missing features/false advertisement.

To do so follow: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

And since it’s not easy to get information on these companies, here are the complete adresses of both:


Arktos Entertainment Group, Inc.
11400 Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
United States
Phone:
916-445-1254


OP PRODUCTIONS, LLC
11833 Mississippi Ave., Suite 100
Los Angeles
CALIFORNIA
90025
UNITED STATES
617-596-3208
617-812-2554

*************UPDATE*************
*************UPDATE*************
*************UPDATE*************

Sergey Titov has now answered to this obvious suspension of their trademark application, but the funny thing is: He apparently doesn’t know how the trademark system in the US works and thinks his trademark is issued. Once again he answers before simply checking the facts.

In his statement on the offical forums he writes the following:

guys,

this is getting to be ridiculous.

1) go to uspto.gov
2) Go to TESS - trademark search
3) search for War Z
4) Enjoy LIVE trademark !

Why spread lies ?
even more -I was sent this link like three already - and looks like people are not even reading this document.

It basically says that this application is suspended because there’s another application with regards to this trademark.

here’s real trademark
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield…002:756yk7.2.3


This is as stupid as saying that colorado map is only 3x3 km.

Sergey Titov
Executive Producer
The War Z

Source: http://forums.thewarz.com/showthread.ph ... ost1286542
However this doesn’t mean anything - The “basic” search of the US “United States Patent and Trademark Office” ofcourse lists “The War Z” as “active” because OP Productions has 90 days of probation until the application expires. “Live” DOES NOT EQUAL “ISSUED”, Mr Titov.


What Sergey forgets to mention is that when you do the search as he says, and then in the overview click on “CHECK STATUS” -> TSDR (that stands for “Trademark Stauts and Document Retrieval” aka see what’s the status of the trademark right now) you WILL see the whole article about “The War Z“‘s trademark application under the tab PROSECUTION HISTORY that it indeed was SUSPENDED on 15th november.

I have snipped instructions on how to see the notice yourself. If you want to see them, click the blog link. Or just take this link directly to the correct page on the USPTO website.

I wonder how the War Z devs are going to make the situation even worse for themselves.

[weemadando]

[Stark]

MARKETING

[Nephtys]

New business strategy! Sell shit product, badmouth buyers.

Brilliant. I hope these disgraces of game devs never sell anything again on their own. Since they're NEVER going to find work in the industry with this sort of history

[Mr Bean]

So how long till they get pulled into court someplace like Road Island which has return laws that back consumers not businesses. Assuming they refuse to refund the money or get a fraud or scam cause brought against them.

[ryacko]

So how long till they get pulled into court someplace like Road Island which has return laws that back consumers not businesses. Assuming they refuse to refund the money or get a fraud or scam cause brought against them.

Didn't they change their terms of service, to require arbitration first?

If you look at it anyway, technically you are leasing the game from them. You don't own it.