The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by Thanas »

I really liked Bioshock infinite. The story had some huge plot holes but overall worked, the characters were very well done and the overall worldbuilding was excellent. However, the DLCs Burial at Sea I and II were both really huge disappointments.


Gameplay:

BaS I mainly plays the same as infinite but without as many dimensional tears which makes the whole thing less interesting, especially as you fight mainly against the usual Bioshock zombie hordes at rapture. Quite boring.
BaSII introduces Elizabeth as a playable character and she mainly relies on stealth, lockpicking etc. It even has a crossbow and unique plasmid abilities. Which was nice, except that many things seemed to be copied right out of dishonoured gameplaywise. Nevertheless, the gameplay there was a bit more fun than just killing the zombie hordes of part 1, even though sneaking and knocking them out might get a bit repititive. And you get to use none of Elizabeth's cool powers, like


Atmosphere:

If you remember Bioshock:Infinite, it really sold the idea of a city in the clouds. It had skyrails, lovely open spaces and unique abilities designed for the skies and with gravity in mind. Overall, the worldbuilding really sold me on the idea of an ultra-right-wing city in the sky. Meanwhile in the DLC, you are stuck entirely in I and for the most part in II in Rapture. Okay, Rapture isn't that bad, but the engine clearly was not meant for underwater stuff.

Especially Part I has the problem with atmosphere. Some of that is just lazy design. For example, in I you either are stuck in dark, small corridors or in yuppie corridors and cafes populated by the Bioshock I zombies (sorry, splicers) or rich assholes. Really a letdown after B:I, especially as there are nowhere near the same amount of cinescopes or audio tapes. Then there was the grand idea of having huge areas turning out to be pretty stupid, like the Cohen studio which is part white cube (literally the whole screen is white with nothing in it) or an underground cellar/painting studio which looks pretty much ripped out of every bad fantasy movie ever. The gameplay where you kill dozens of zombies pretty much reinforces that scenario. And the less said about the grown-up Elizabeth character model the better, it looks even more ridiculous than 90s Lara Croft in its proportions.

Part II has a lesser problem mainly because you are sneaking and using stealth. BUT: the enemies quickly get tired and repetitive, like even after 10 minutes of gameplay and sneaking you have heard every line. IT IS BORING BEYOND BELIEF IF AFTER CROSSING ONE ROOM WITH TWO ENEMIES YOU GO INTO THE NEXT ROOM AND YOU HEAR THE ENEMIES USING THE EXACT SAME DIALOGUE. There are basically five enemies and they all use the same lines always. You also visit Columbia again but still spend almost half the time in Rapture in dark crowded corridors, populated by the same enemies over and over again. And this time you don't have an ally to observe or to give hints.

Story:
OBVIOUS SPOILERS BELOW.
Spoiler
So if you remember the end of Bioshock Infinite, Elizabeth turns basically into this omniscient goddess who can travel and open portals through time and space and between universes at will. She exists in multiple realities, has infinite parallels etc. Which is why none of the story makes any sense at all.

Main story of Burial at Sea I is that a comstock killed baby Anna/Elizabeth by mistake when abducting her through the portal. He takes on the identity of Booker and moves to rapture. Then Elizabeth changes into a femme fatale version of herself and decides to have her revenge, culminating in Booker trying to rescue a little sister and then getting killed by a big daddy.

This story only works if Elizabeth was suddenly IMPOTENT and a SADIST. For one, during the accident with Anna (which is due to the portal closing and taking her head not her pinky) the BI version of herself stands next to Comstock and DOES NOTHING. Instead of, you know, using her powers to keep the portal open or just shoving Comstock aside. I found this utterly unbelievable. And you cannot even explain that with her being unable to interfere as even after the baby dies she still exists (because she obviously is from a different universe).

Then, her whole plan to take revenge on Comstock is not just to kill him (which she could do any second she wanted) but to make him realize what he did and then have him killed by some flunkie. In doing so (omniscient goddess, remember) she willingly burns a little girl alive as if that was the only way to have him remember. And then she (who with the wink of an eye teleported an enemy thousands of meters into the sea) gets killed by the same bid daddy who she saw coming a mile away. WTF?

Which is where we segment into Burial at Sea part II. She suffers from remorse at killing that one girl in order to get revenge on comstock for killing baby her (yes, just as stupid as it sounds) and tries to rescue her from Bioshock 1 baddie Atlas. BUT: Apparently because she died in one reality, she cannot come back to the same reality except by becoming human again with no special powers whatsoever. Yeah. This is exactly as stupid as it sounds. Even ignoring how we have seen her crossover at will in Infinite even if she dies in that reality....there should be no reason why one reality would impact all the other infinite timelines and universes. Because she herself in part I is able to easily cross into timelines where she or a baby version of herself dies. This feels like a huge copout for the designers not being willing to design her powers into the game. Also from a story perspective it is never really explained what that will do to all the alternate versions of herself - do they lose their powers or not? Does this create a human copy of Elizabeth or does she lose her powers? Neither makes sense, neither is explained fully.

In any case, Burial at Sea II has its good moments. There are parts of the story (especially with Songbird and its creation, as well as with Big Daddy bonding with little sister) that are awesome and well done. The dialogue is great writing. And the overall story is moving. But some moments just stick out like sore thumbs and ruin the DLC for me to the point of me having to caution you of spending money on it.

Several moments of the DLC itself were pretty bad.
- The underlying message of it seems to be that the circle can be broken....by having the subject of most abuse killing herself to help others. This is simplifying but nevertheless what happens.
- There is one torture scene happening to the main character that went far beyond what I would consider artistically acceptable. You cannot convince me that these five (very NSFW) minutes were in any way necessary to the story or had any merit other than showing what a bastard the villain is.
- The overall purpose of the DLC was to link Infinite to Bioshock 1. I am not sure if that was in any kind necessary. In any comparison of Rapture to Columbia the latter almost inevitably wins and I would rather have explored colombia again than rapture, where almost none of things that made Infinite cool (and what it was designed for) are present.
- why even have elizabeth in the first place if any stock action hero would fulfill the same purpose?
- The overall story of the DLC was pretty bad when you think of the implications. So Elizabeth sacrifices herself to save one little girl. While doing so, she knowingly starts the civil war in rapture thereby killing thousands of people. I remain unconvinced that this was the only way to break the circle of abuse and abuser - by killing herself and thousands of others in the vain hope that Jack Ryan was going to break the circle (but what if the player in Bioshock 1 killed just one or more of the little sisters?)

And when you take the other bioshock games into account this ending feels even less satisfying. First of all, the ending seems rushed and short, failing to convince me of Elizabeth's inner state of mind leaving her no option but of killing herself. It did not feel right considering how strong and determined she was in Bioshock infinite.

What is more, it is a profoundly unfair ending to that particular character's arc. All her life she has been abused and tortured, locked up in a tower. Through immense effort and through the effort of Booker, she gets to be free of that and recovers her power. If anything she deserved to have a happy ending. Or in short: I did not fucking race through the last levels of Bioshock infinite just to have her commit suicide in the most retarded manner ever when she easily could have prevented her being killed in the first place.

It even gets more troubling when taken into account that Ken Levine and his troupe turned the Intellectual Property over to 2k. It feels like he decided to tie up all loose ends and prevent the characters from being used in the planned sequels. Which on some level is understandable but when done in this instance just feels petty, especially considering it won't stop any kind of character recylcling if the guys who own the IP feel like it.

So the overall point of the DLC storylines were:
a) nothing you do in infinite ever really matters
b) if you suffer abuse, the only way to break the cycle is not by your own actions, but those of proxies whose powers are far below your own
c) Everybody you cared for in infinite is dead
d) Play Bioshock 1 which is the best game ever
e) BTW, why did Bioshock 1 need more explaining in the first place?
f) Especially because the authors will not explain any of the interesting parts of infinite in the DLCs, like whatever is the plan of the luteces (who did not want her to go back in the first place)
Well....ain't that fucking great. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


EDIT: Turns out Rock paper shotgun has a review up which I also agree with
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by FaxModem1 »

I liked seeing Rapture during its heyday and Elizabeth's vision of Paris, but the rest of it was rather skippable and problematic storywise.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by Vympel »

Is any DLC worthwhile nowadays? The last good DLC I heard of was Dishonored's DLC.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by Thanas »

Tropico IV's DLC Modern Times was great. Best DLC I have ever heard and more of a real addon.

Problem with DLC is that most is a blatant cash grab (Rome's Greek DLC). Not that this DLC is any of that, it just is a poor version of the real game.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by White Haven »

The Mass Effect games had a few quite good bits of DLC amidst a whole array of mediocre-to-poor offerings.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Skyrim's DLC were mostly good - if Dawnguard hadn't added random vampire attacks on towns, I'd say they were all upside.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by General Zod »

Most of the DLC for the Borderlands games have been pretty solid. It really just depends on the game.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by FaxModem1 »

Even though I agree on the story decisions, this part made the DLC for me. I would love to play an entire game of just wandering around Paris as Elizabeth:

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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by NeoGoomba »

The "Artorias of the Abyss" DLC for Dark Souls was pretty damn good.

I thought the Fallout: New Vegas DLC's were also really well done. I liked how all of them combined into a major story arc separate from the war in the Wasteland, culminating in the "Lonesome Road" showdown, even if the endling DLC was a little shaky.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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NeoGoomba wrote:I thought the Fallout: New Vegas DLC's were also really well done. I liked how all of them combined into a major story arc separate from the war in the Wasteland, culminating in the "Lonesome Road" showdown, even if the endling DLC was a little shaky.
I would have liked the New Vegas DLCs more if they were less isolated from the rest of the game.

One strips you of all your companions and gear, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, and doesn't let you come back after you leave.
One strips you of all your companions, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, and doesn't let you come back meaningfully after you leave.
One strips you of all your companions and gear, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, does let you come back after you leave, but by default forces you to leave your companions behind when you do.
And one I haven't really tried yet.

If you're going to force me to stay until I'm finished and then kick me out, at least let me take everything with me. And by "everything", I mean "Christine Royce".
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Grumman wrote:
One strips you of all your companions and gear, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, and doesn't let you come back after you leave.
Dead Money, that's true
Grumman wrote: One strips you of all your companions, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, and doesn't let you come back meaningfully after you leave.
Honest Hearts and yes that's true
Grumman wrote: One strips you of all your companions and gear, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, does let you come back after you leave, but by default forces you to leave your companions behind when you do.
And one I haven't really tried yet.
That's not true of Old World Blues or Lonesome Roads so I don't know where you get that. Both of which you can visit and both of which you can leave at any time.

But it does strip you of all your companions that's true.

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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Mr Bean wrote:
Grumman wrote:One strips you of all your companions and gear, doesn't let you return to New Vegas until you're done, does let you come back after you leave, but by default forces you to leave your companions behind when you do.
And one I haven't really tried yet.
That's not true of Old World Blues or Lonesome Roads so I don't know where you get that. Both of which you can visit and both of which you can leave at any time.

But it does strip you of all your companions that's true.
Oh? I thought you couldn't leave Old World Blues until you Spoiler
receive the Transportalponder.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Grumman wrote: Spoiler
receive the Transportalponder.
I stand corrected I remember them giving that to me pretty much the instant the DLC started but it was at the end of the DLC. Only Lonesome road can you leave at any time, but then that's a theme of the entire DLC.

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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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I was always a lone wanderer in Fallout New Vegas, so I didn't mind that the DLCs didn't use the main game companions at all. They were way better experiences than their Fallout 3 counterparts, especially Old World Blues (come on, how often do you get to have an argument with your own brain?).
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Vendetta wrote:I was always a lone wanderer in Fallout New Vegas, so I didn't mind that the DLCs didn't use the main game companions at all. They were way better experiences than their Fallout 3 counterparts, especially Old World Blues (come on, how often do you get to have an argument with your own brain?).
Yeah same here. Also it was actually strangely liberating when, at the beginning of most of the DLC (Lonesome Road excluded), my inventory dropped from 300lbs to like 5lbs. The horror of wading through consumables subsided. For a few minutes at least. I looted the fuck out of the Sierra Madre :P
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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I had to up my carryweight in the command console for that, cause no way was I leaving behind all that shiny, shiny gold.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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The gold is a trap.

The real treasure of the Sierra Madre is cleaning out the casino and turning it in for pre-war money.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Vendetta wrote:The gold is a trap.

The real treasure of the Sierra Madre is cleaning out the casino and turning it in for pre-war money.
But the Pre-War Money isn't shiny!
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by Vendetta »

No, but it's weightless and you can get a lot of it.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

Post by Cykeisme »

Oh man, awesome that this thread already exists. I have a tangentially related question pertaining to the Bioshock Infinite DLCs.

First, I haven't played Bioshock 1 and 2.

I just bought Bioshock Infinite during the Steam Summer Sale (in a package that, perhaps unfortunately, also contained all the DLCs). I did the main game itself in a weekend marathon, and despite the usual holes in logic that are glossed over in time travel/branching alternate timeline stories, I found the plot very fun and engaging.

Now, I started on Burial at Sea, and just ran around a bit at the start, then from my vague recollection of what I know about the earlier Bioshock games, I realized this was all an awesome huge "fanservice" sort of thing, for people who played Bioshock 1 and 2.. which I haven't.
Incidentally, I assume Elizabeth's tear taking you momentarily there was also part of it, as well as the "always a city, always a lighthouse, always a man" thing (they're different alternate timelines).

Then I realized that this package from the sale also included Bioshock 1 and 2, so apparently I have them too, now.
(Game content for 1 and 2 is comparatively small, Steam is downloading and installing 'em, should be done soon).

So, simple question.. should I played Bioshock 1 and 2 before I dig into Burial at Sea?
More generally, are 1 and 2 good games, worth playing?
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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Bioshock 1 is a great game but starting with Infinite will show you how the gameplay has evolved since then and it's noticeable. But the locations and people you semi-meet are great. As for Bioshock 2 I don't know why it gets the hate it does as to me it feels like Bioshock 1 extra levels even if some of them feel a touch samey, getting to go to the Ryan amusement park was worth the price of admission by itself.

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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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I haven't played Infinite, but was thinking on picking it up when the price bottomed out (probably never). Everything I've read talks about how the combat has been simplified: less guns, less modding, simplified plasmids (or vigors, whatever). What makes combat better than the original Bioshock?
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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TheFeniX wrote:I haven't played Infinite, but was thinking on picking it up when the price bottomed out (probably never). Everything I've read talks about how the combat has been simplified: less guns, less modding, simplified plasmids (or vigors, whatever). What makes combat better than the original Bioshock?
You missed the spring/summer Steam sales when it was going for $7.50? The combat is really about the same, but you've got a few options with Elizabeth's ability to create cover and weapons on the fly. The skyhooks add an extra dimension to the combat too, but for the most part it's not substantially different.
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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General Zod wrote:You missed the spring/summer Steam sales when it was going for $7.50?
Shit. Yea, I was basically logging in to WoW exclusively during the early parts of the sale. We only recently put the game down like 2 weeks ago.
The combat is really about the same, but you've got a few options with Elizabeth's ability to create cover and weapons on the fly. The skyhooks add an extra dimension to the combat too, but for the most part it's not substantially different.
Meh. How's the AI play out? I dropped the game as a purchase once Irrational ditched the intelligent faction system and went to the standard "if it moves, shoot it" mantra. Are there different factions you can play off each other like in Bioshock with splicer vs Big Daddy brawls?
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Re: The horrible Bioshock infinite DLCs

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TheFeniX wrote:Meh. How's the AI play out? I dropped the game as a purchase once Irrational ditched the intelligent faction system and went to the standard "if it moves, shoot it" mantra. Are there different factions you can play off each other like in Bioshock with splicer vs Big Daddy brawls?
Sort of. You've got the Vox and the men supporting Comstock as the two big factions. Comstock's soldiers are mostly always against you, and sometimes you'll get aid from the Vox, but it's very scripted and for the most part there isn't much in the way of choice.
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