StarDestroyer.Net BBS

OK, that's a loaded question, but I recently got a hankering to do some space-simming and broke out my FS2 CD's. Turns out the Hard Light Productions community is still active and they've continued to update the FSOpen engine. Better yet, they've actually made installation somewhat user-friendly. I fired up the Freespace 1 port and was blown away by the graphics and presentation. It may not look as good as, say Elite Dangerous, but it's not as far off as you might guess, and from a modification of an engine that was released in 1999!

Freespace 2 is almost unquestionably the pinnacle of the space sim genre. The controls are smooth and responsive, combat is tough without being frustrating, and enemy craft take just the right amount of hits before they explode. There is a proper sense of scale, with capital ships feeling both massive and fortress-like. Unlike the X-Wing series where a single fighter can take out an ISD, the big capital ships in FS2 only go down by bombers taking out their weapons so other destroyers can assault them with their main beams.

To be a best-game-ever contender, a game must be the perfect distillation of the genre and should be one of the last of its kind. FS2 was the last big-budget space sim (and unfortunately come out 1-2 years after gamers had abandoned the genre so it sold poorly), just like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6 were released near the end of the 16-bit RPG cycle and Super Mario Bros 3 marked the end of the 8-bit platformers. To this day, FS2 is the best WW2-style space sim experience you can have, although that might change with the adoption of VR, a technology that lends itself to cockpit-based games. Still, even if space sims become cool again, developers will need to re-learn the art of attaining near-perfect balance, engaging gameplay, and scale.

If you've got a hankering for Wing Commander or Xwing-style games, do yourself a favor and pick up FS2, then grab the FSO Installer to experience it with modern graphics. Just be warned that you may never be satisfied by another space sim again.

Random question. What are the system requirements on that thing?

Purple wrote:Random question. What are the system requirements on that thing?

Nothing. My middle range PC from 2002 ran it at top settings.

With the modern mods, maybe different, but it's still basically a DX8 engine.

Ace Pace wrote:

Purple wrote:Random question. What are the system requirements on that thing?

Nothing. My middle range PC from 2002 ran it at top settings.

With the modern mods, maybe different, but it's still basically a DX8 engine.

I am asking because I know that a lot of old games modded up tend to have issues with needing more than they can use in terms of memory or other resources, but mostly RAM. Also because my rig might as well be a good one from 2002. (Well not 2002 but like 2010 or something).

If you run the base game, you'll only need a Pentium MMX 200 MHz. If you want to run it fully modded and max all the settings, you'll need something a lot more modern, but a mid-range c2011 rig should still manage.

Basically what's the RAM requirements on the modded thing?

According to GoG:

Minimum system requirements - Windows: Windows XP or Windows Vista, 1 GHz Processor (1.4 GHz recommended), 256MB RAM (512 recommended), 3D graphics card compatible with DirectX 7 (compatible with DirectX 9 recommended), monitor capable of displaying 1024x768 resolution, Mouse, Keyboard.

This is definitely for FS Open, as the original game had much lower requirements. The latest mods with everything maxed at 1200P will need more power, though.

Ok, this is definitively on my list of things to save money up for after I finish my classes and can actually take the time to play games again.

Well, to bring the thread back to focus and until Stark gets here to shut me down.
Freespace 2 is my favorite shooter (no other way to call it) of all time. The mix of fun twisty action, the beautiful scenes whether in a nebula or in a cap ship battle, the plot that serves to bring up the nerves and the sheer fun of running up against a Shivan fighter and peppering it's behind with fire.

The mod scene is amazing (I used to be part of it back in 2003-2004) and the game is still fun.

Any must have mods that everyone should pick up?

Freespace 1 never grabbed me, tbh. I remember playing it and getting the lowdown on the Shivans in the info database long before they actually entered the plot. It just never felt like I was actually a pilot on a carrier like Wing Commander did.

Freespace 2 was in most respects a massive improvement, but it kept its predecessor's inability to convey the feeling of really being a pilot who exists independent of the cockpit. Which becomes a problem when you're trying to evoke pathos.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:According to GoG:

Minimum system requirements - Windows: Windows XP or Windows Vista, 1 GHz Processor (1.4 GHz recommended), 256MB RAM (512 recommended), 3D graphics card compatible with DirectX 7 (compatible with DirectX 9 recommended), monitor capable of displaying 1024x768 resolution, Mouse, Keyboard.

This is definitely for FS Open, as the original game had much lower requirements. The latest mods with everything maxed at 1200P will need more power, though.

Good grief, my PC could run that whilst unplugged

Certainly sounds like my kinda thing. I'll be looking into this quite soon...

Eleas wrote:Freespace 1 never grabbed me, tbh. I remember playing it and getting the lowdown on the Shivans in the info database long before they actually entered the plot. It just never felt like I was actually a pilot on a carrier like Wing Commander did.

Freespace 2 was in most respects a massive improvement, but it kept its predecessor's inability to convey the feeling of really being a pilot who exists independent of the cockpit. Which becomes a problem when you're trying to evoke pathos.

Wow, haven't heard from you in a while! How have you been? (feel free to PM me or reply in a different thread)

I agree with that assessment, but the Blue Planet mod does a lot to address the feeling of not being a whole person independent of the cockpit. I'm only on the first chapter, but there's a lot of backstory for your character and his relationship to the admiral in charge of the operation.

I don't think most space sims or games in general do a great job at this, though, aside from Wing Commander 3 and maybe I-War. Wing Commander got an excellent FS Open remake a few years ago, but I-War desperately needs a modernization, preferably with VR. This generation of gamers can't grow up not knowing what it's like to pilot a Dreadnought corvette.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Wow, haven't heard from you in a while! How have you been? (feel free to PM me or reply in a different thread)

PM:ed.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I agree with that assessment, but the Blue Planet mod does a lot to address the feeling of not being a whole person independent of the cockpit. I'm only on the first chapter, but there's a lot of backstory for your character and his relationship to the admiral in charge of the operation.

That does sound promising. The framing of a story has always been a deal-breaker for me. I loved the original Thief, for instance, and the one reason I have a hard time imagining playing The Dark Mod is because I don't like the idea of just playing the equivalent of loose issues. I want a story arc, goddammit.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I don't think most space sims or games in general do a great job at this, though, aside from Wing Commander 3 and maybe I-War. Wing Commander got an excellent FS Open remake a few years ago, but I-War desperately needs a modernization, preferably with VR. This generation of gamers can't grow up not knowing what it's like to pilot a Dreadnought corvette.

I've never piloted a Dreadnought corvette. Yes, you read it right.

Last time I played it was probably 2008, and it held up about as well as any game does after that long. Even unmodded I remember the visuals looking pretty slick and colorful. Loved the amount of strategy available in commanding your wingmen, targeting subsystems on capital ships, and managing energy levels between weapons, shields and propulsion. The story is pretty thrilling and well paced, and damn, the music and VO could be considered top-tier even today. Yeah, anyone who loves to replay the classics should check it out.

I haven't played either Freespace and don't know much about it, but I am interested in discussing the idea of a "best-game-ever" in a more abstract sense.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:To be a best-game-ever contender, a game must be the perfect distillation of the genre and should be one of the last of its kind.

I disagree with both of these criteria. These seem incidental to me to quality. A game can be an exemplar of a genre but still be deeply flawed; in fact, there are a number of games that were probably worse as a result of their over zealous attempts to capture the aesthetic of a genre without having a compelling story or characters (see: "LA Noire"). In my mind, when it comes specifically to genres, the best games are usually the ones that find a way to play with, subvert, or broaden the conventions of that genre; for example, one reason "The Last of Us" is such an effective game is not because it "distills" the zombie genre, but because it does something fresh, new, and interesting with the genre. Another good example is "Red Dead Redemption," which is simultaneously a good Western story as it is an allegory for the death of the Western as a genre.

And what about games like, say, "Heavy Rain"? It isn't a particularly noteworthy as a genre experiment, but is important as a gaming milestone for being innovative in the way it allowed the player to interact with and shape the plot. Or games like "Journey," which were brilliant for the art design and imagination that went into them despite not having a clear genre. I don't think genre concerns are irrelevant, per se, but rather that they only tell part of the story.

As for the "last of its kind" ... that, too, seems to me utterly irrelevant. Why does the best of anything have to be the last of its kind? I mean, using that logic "Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" is disqualified, because it was neither the last N64 game nor the last Zelda series game (it wasn't even the last Zelda series game ON THAT CONSOLE). I would say in most cases the converse is probably closer to being true, considering how the modern gaming industry has a tendency to try and make sequels to any vaguely successful idea. I mean, new first-person-shooters are cranked out every year, yet the "best" first person shooters are probably ones made years ago.

Those are good counter-examples. The first BGE-contenders that sprung to my mind were all released near the end of their respective eras, but I'll admit that I didn't thoroughly think through the criteria.