My impression of Overwatch

[Lord Revan]

First of the older thread is so old so I considered it to be prudent to make a new one.

But to the subject at hand.

I've been playing the Overwatch open beta for a decent amount of time (it opened only today so there's a limit to my game time) and here's my personal impression of the game. It's fun, the characters are quirky and unique (from each other that is) and the UI is not too complex but still gives more or less all you need to play. Only complaint I really have that's not a nitpick or something that's looking for a fault to say is that groups can be quite unbalanced more often then not the match was desided in the matchmaking rather then in the gameplay with a lot of groups just jerking around or so bad that it felt like they were intentionally trying to loose. That said I still had "I should probably stop now but one more match won't hurt right?" feeling while playing and at no point did I feel bored.

Oh and I'm not really a fan of modern FPS or online play in FPS period.

[TheFeniX]

I've been reading around a bit since we're getting close to launch. Supposedly the tick-rate is in the 20s? Yeesh, that is low. NS2 was in the 30s iirc, which caused some issues, but that was a much slower game outside of certain engagements. It's got to be a bitch in an FPS like Overwatch running even lower than that. Probably runs like original CS: Source. ::shudder:: Glad my day of competitive FPS are done.

[Lord Revan]

I've been reading around a bit since we're getting close to launch. Supposedly the tick-rate is in the 20s? Yeesh, that is low. NS2 was in the 30s iirc, which caused some issues, but that was a much slower game outside of certain engagements. It's got to be a bitch in an FPS like Overwatch running even lower than that. Probably runs like original CS: Source. ::shudder:: Glad my day of competitive FPS are done.

I don't play FPS games online normally but I didn't have any major issues as far as performance went (far as my skill at playing was that's another matter ), every shot more or less went where I wanted it to go, except for twitch heavy classes like the snipers.

[Kojiro]

I've been reading around a bit since we're getting close to launch. Supposedly the tick-rate is in the 20s? Yeesh, that is low. NS2 was in the 30s iirc, which caused some issues, but that was a much slower game outside of certain engagements. It's got to be a bitch in an FPS like Overwatch running even lower than that. Probably runs like original CS: Source. ::shudder:: Glad my day of competitive FPS are done.

What is this tick rate you're talking about? Something to do with server refresh I assume? I've played a ton of the beta (which was fantastic) and even as an Australian playing on US servers I had no problem kicking ass.

[Mr Bean]

I've been reading around a bit since we're getting close to launch. Supposedly the tick-rate is in the 20s? Yeesh, that is low. NS2 was in the 30s iirc, which caused some issues, but that was a much slower game outside of certain engagements. It's got to be a bitch in an FPS like Overwatch running even lower than that. Probably runs like original CS: Source. ::shudder:: Glad my day of competitive FPS are done.

What is this tick rate you're talking about? Something to do with server refresh I assume? I've played a ton of the beta (which was fantastic) and even as an Australian playing on US servers I had no problem kicking ass.

Tick rate is the number of times the server asks your computer to report it's position. Here's a three minute video explain a lot of this stuff.

Or you can look at this pretty picture

More server updates are good, most people who claim to be hardcore e-sports people claim 128 tickrate is best as updates are so frequent you never get the ghosting issue. However that might be feel and personal opinon but what is not is that 64 tickrate servers feel much better than 20-30 or 40 tickrate servers because once you hit 64 tickrate the chances of a shot going between updates is astonishingly small.

[TheFeniX]

What is this tick rate you're talking about? Something to do with server refresh I assume? I've played a ton of the beta (which was fantastic) and even as an Australian playing on US servers I had no problem kicking ass.

Lag Compensation and other facets of changes in netcode over the years is why that's even possible. There are times in FPS these days where high-ping is actually an advantage due to these concepts. "Lag switches" which simulate latency and packet-loss are actually a thing these days because of that. Also, I would assume there's a lot more projectile weapons in Overwatch than hitscan based on your post, but I could be wrong.

Counter-strike:Source actually had high tickrate, but valve had to spend months working out their issues with lagging hitboxes and lag compensation. Those were Dark Days.™ All that said, no matter how smooth Overwatch might play, it would play a lot smoother at a higher tick. But consoles exist, so we can't have nice(r) things.

More server updates are good, most people who claim to be hardcore e-sports people claim 128 tickrate is best as updates are so frequent you never get the ghosting issue. However that might be feel and personal opinon but what is not is that 64 tickrate servers feel much better than 20-30 or 40 tickrate servers because once you hit 64 tickrate the chances of a shot going between updates is astonishingly small.

You generally want to be able to send/receive correct information at about the same rate your PC can process it. So basically: your frame-rate. CS players were pretty crazy about this and would take extra FPS over what their monitor could display in order to take advantage of 100 tick servers. Theoretically, you'd even want double you framerate with the tickrate/updaterate. This would leave next to zero chance for an input to be missed by the server because your opponent also shot around the same time (relatively speaking) and his packet made it there first because yours was waiting on a tick. But that's getting into some really high-end paranoia and I still think the technicals behind it are more "gut-feeling" than actually technical. Though to be fair, CS players have always been "nofun."

But making that jump from high-tickrate games to the dismal 20 or so tick of XBLive shooters was terrible and took some major getting used to.

PS: Your post was great and saved me a lot of ranting (not really because I'll jabber on anyway), but I'm required to audibly laugh at the term "e-sport" whenever I read it because I'm an asshole.

[TheFeniX]

Blizzard to permanently ban cheaters.

We’ve always taken cheating in Blizzard games very seriously, and that stance is no different for Overwatch. “Play nice; play fair” is one of our core values as a company, and it’s something we’ve taken to heart not only when designing the game, but also as we’ve developed our plans to support it and our players after launch.

What does this mean for Overwatch? If a player is found to be cheating—or using hacks, bots, or third-party software that provides any sort of unfair advantage—that player will be permanently banned from the game. Full stop. Not only does cheating undermine the spirit of fair play that all of our products are based on, but it works to diminish the fun and enjoyment of others. While we are unlikely to publicly acknowledge when accounts are closed as a result of cheating or using unauthorized programs, we have and will continue to monitor Overwatch for exploitative behavior, as well as take action as needed to preserve the integrity of game.

These assertions aren’t new or groundbreaking for Blizzard, but they’re important and serve as a reminder of our commitment to delivering epic gameplay experiences. For us, it’s not just about creating awesome games, but about supporting those games and their communities for years to come. The upcoming launch of Overwatch on May 24 is in many ways just the beginning, and we’re doing all that we can to prepare for that milestone and (perhaps more importantly) what comes after—not just in terms of new game content, but also how we can ensure a fair and equitable play environment for everyone.

So, how can you help?

Entire article not posted.

I don't like cheaters. And I expect consequences for their actions. But I also don't like a developer having full control over who is cheating and being able to turn my data bits into recycling bin trash at the press of a button. In a non-subscription game, the only incentive to be fair about it is due to PR, and I don't like relying on that. Honestly, this is what scared me off of spending any more money to support Warframe: getting a 20 year auto-ban due to "memory inconsistencies" which the support guy said was likely due to "bad RAM" is not something I feel like dealing with again.

Honestly though, Blizzard kind of jumped the shark on this with Starcraft 2 being able to lock you out of the entire game (including Single-player) with their account bans. There's no good reason that should be legal.

[Kojiro]

I did run into at least one person I was absolutely sure was cheating. He was pinging me every time I stuck my head out for a peek with jump bursts from Soldier 76 against my Widowmaker. When my ultimate came up (giving me wall hack essentially) I watched him moving in response to my movements- specifically stopping just shy of walking into my aimed spot. Entirely doable if you can see through walls, but since his team had neither Widowmaker or Hanzo (who grant said abilities) his movements- not to mention aim- were beyond suspicious. I have absolutely no sympathy for hackers and there's enough clips of them out there now that it's beyond doubt they exist. Oh and I found another guy whose profile listed his scoped accuracy as 100%. No one is that good.

Given that Overwatch shows how you were killed- from the enemy perspective- every time you die, suspicious kills are very obvious. A lot of the time they end up as the play of the game, which OW seems to save as Highlights for a while, unique to each player. I imagine these are exactly what Blizzard would look at when determining hacks, at the least. If they can just replay your multikill and watch you crosshair jump from target to target I wouldn't expect your account to last long. Nor should it if you're being so blatant.

[Lord Revan]

I'd say anyone who can accuracity of 70+% on a non-AoE weapon would be something worth looking at. 100% scopped accuracity in a single match is possible though not likely without hacks. though it's not really possible as an average over several matches.

speaking on S76 bots I think I might have encoured one when playing as Soldier 76 myself in Volskya (or how ever you spelled it again), there was this Soldier 76 over the capture point B that was sniping our team from the balcony with pin point accuracity (I though it was widowmaker at first), however when I flanked him thru a side path he seemed to ignore me totally allowing me to unload 2-3 shots on him at point blank without so much as a reaction. It's possible it was a player but it does seem fishy even the actual training AI bots don't seem that single minded.

[TheFeniX]

So, digging up some Heroes of the Storm builds last night. I ended up on Reddit. Somehow I found a post about how Blizzard is sending DMCA take-down notices to creators of Overwatch porn. I couldn't stop laughing. I'm not going to post links due to the nature of the hilarity, but just search for "Overwatch DMCA." According to the SFM Steam group, Blizz is whitelisting SFW movies.

You can't stop the porn Blizz. It just ain't gonna happen. If it's your thing, whatever floats your boat. I don't give fucks about Overwatch, but this is too funny to not exist (NOTE: it is SFW):

[biostem]

My issue with PvP FPS is that I want to play a story-driven game at a pace I find enjoyable. A PvP game, by its very nature, cannot be paused mid-fight and you don't really get the same kind of narrative flow that you would in a single player game, where you have scripted events and other story-based interactions with NPCs.

I'm not saying that this style of game is bad... just that it isn't attractive to me.

[Lord Revan]

I can understand that I'm more of a fan story driven PvE myself, that said for some reason I like Overwatch more then most FPS or PvP I've played.

[Kojiro]

You can't stop the porn Blizz. It just ain't gonna happen.

From what I've gathered with the Games Workshop DMCA messes of recent years it's a matter of protecting the IP. If you let someone use your IP to make something it weakens your copyright claims. I'm sure Blizzard isn't a fan of the fact it's porn, but legally speaking porn is just another product. They can no more let people make SFW Widowmaker miniatures then they could NSFW ones if they want to protect the IP. They have to be seen to make the effort, even if it is actually futile. At least that's my understanding from people with more IP law knowledge than I- could be entirely wrong.

Regardless, I'm still enjoying the shit out of the game. When I play sport there's no pause and there's no narrative and this is exactly the same from my perspective. Get a team and play.

[Sharp-kun]

There's probably also the fact that there's a good amount of launch hype so they want to get it off the front of google in the short term. Once it dies down I doubt they'll care as much.

[TheFeniX]

You can't stop the porn Blizz. It just ain't gonna happen.

From what I've gathered with the Games Workshop DMCA messes of recent years it's a matter of protecting the IP. If you let someone use your IP to make something it weakens your copyright claims. I'm sure Blizzard isn't a fan of the fact it's porn, but legally speaking porn is just another product. They can no more let people make SFW Widowmaker miniatures then they could NSFW ones if they want to protect the IP. They have to be seen to make the effort, even if it is actually futile. At least that's my understanding from people with more IP law knowledge than I- could be entirely wrong.

Can Blizzard legally stop me from ripping models from software I have purchased? And then converting those models into a format where they can be animated or put into a 3D printer? Either way, they haven't gone after SFW videos, likely due to the free advertising. This seems done only for clickbait and as a safety net as doing nothing sort of condones the use of their models for porn. They can deal with the fact that (at least based on the Kotaku article) porn searches have given overwatch extra foot traffic while also taking a stand against it. Obviously, larger porn sites don't have fucks to give about Blizz DMCAs, at least I would assume so since it seems to fall under fair use and the sites are big enough not to be easily intimated by lawyers or the idea that Blizz could cut them off officially.

Though I find it funny I doubt they would file DMCA claims against their models being used for gorific(sic) violence, but sex is a big no no round these parts. NOTE: I'm not condoning or condemning SFM porn. I've just always laughed at the double-standard America consumers put on sex vs violence. But also sex vs sexually suggestive content.

[Kojiro]

Well I make no claim to know the actual legalities of it. I believe though they can't stop you ripping the models, animating them or printing them *up until the point* you start making money off it. I'm also pretty sure Fair Use ends at a similar point, where you're not commenting on or reviewing or such but simply reselling Blizzards work in another form. But IANAL so...

If you look on Steam, at the Tabletop Simulator mods you'll find entire armies for Warmachine and Warhammer, ripped from other games. They're free mods though. I can't speak as to the Warhammer ones but as the creator of the Warmachine ones, Privateer Press haven't bothered to say a word to me. If they had any ability I'm pretty sure they would.

[Grumman]

From what I've gathered with the Games Workshop DMCA messes of recent years it's a matter of protecting the IP.

I would not recommend taking anything from GW's legal strategy except the fact that GW's legal strategy is bullshit. This is a company that went after an author for using the phrase "space marine" as a label for a soldier stationed on a "space ship."

[Kojiro]

Not from them per se, but from gamer-lawyers who discussed it in depth. Over on Dakka Dakka for example there's something like a 300+ page thread on the Chapterhouse case. GWs actions (legal and otherwise) are highly questionable. I was just relating the reasoning expressed by smarter people than I there.

[SAMAS]

So, digging up some Heroes of the Storm builds last night. I ended up on Reddit. Somehow I found a post about how Blizzard is sending DMCA take-down notices to creators of Overwatch porn. I couldn't stop laughing. I'm not going to post links due to the nature of the hilarity, but just search for "Overwatch DMCA." According to the SFM Steam group, Blizz is whitelisting SFW movies.

You can't stop the porn Blizz. It just ain't gonna happen. If it's your thing, whatever floats your boat. I don't give fucks about Overwatch, but this is too funny to not exist (NOTE: it is SFW):

From what I heard, Blizzard is specifically targeting those who rip actual game assets to make it, which could technically be considered a form of IP theft(at least close enough to make lawyers glare in your direction). At least, I haven't heard of them going after the people who make the drawn stuff.

[TheFeniX]

From what I heard, Blizzard is specifically targeting those who rip actual game assets to make it, which could technically be considered a form of IP theft(at least close enough to make lawyers glare in your direction). At least, I haven't heard of them going after the people who make the drawn stuff.

If anything would be considered fair use, ripping models from software you've purchased rights to, then releasing free video with it would be one. If that isn't considered fair use, then it should be. I don't even care they've specifically targeted porn as, seemingly, a PR stunt because they are perfectly fine with their assets being used for free advertising in other ways (SFW videos have not been targeted).

My problem is it being another example where software IP/copyright is bullshit. Dodge can't stop me from ripping their engine out of a truck I own to use as a BBQ grill or a generator. Blizzard, nor any company, should have the right to tell me how I use my bits I've purchased as long as I'm not using their service at that given point in time. They can ban me for cheating in matchmaking. But if I turn around and use those assets and hack together my own matchmaking system (such as people did with battle.net for Starcraft 1): then they should have dick all to say about that if the software I'm using existed in the software I purchased.

Their kind of bullshit leads to even more hilarious bullshit.

In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.”

So, as little as I care for Overwatch (or SFM, in general) porn: Blizzard can eat me. Because their bullshit is part of a mentality where they "sell" things and still own all the rights to them.

[SAMAS]

*shrugs* Like I said, hearsay. Creators have differing additudes on fanworks. Most are permissive, some have total bans, and some are Meat Loafs. Nintendo, for example, has put the kibosh on exactly one Pokemon H-Doujin that I know of, expressly on the grounds of "Sorry, that's too far!" Maybe it was something like that. Or maybe the guys put it up for sale somewhere. Or maybe it's the BS of copyright law, and their lawyers said "That's too many assets to legally count." or something.

But before you choose whether or not to die on this particular hill, make sure you have all the facts before passing judgement.

[Kojiro]

I believe the answer can be found here. Specifically this bit:

Your Production should meet the rating guidelines for "T" rated Productions
To maintain and protect the image of our games, Blizzard also requires that Productions maintain the "T" rating that has been given to its products by the ESRB, and similar ratings received from other ratings boards around the world, and that these standards are taken into account during the creation of your Production.

It seems so long as your content is a) free and b) rated T they're fine with people using their assets. Whether they can enforce that, I don't know, but it explains why they're targeting porn specifically.

[TheFeniX]

If this turns out to be a hoax and Blizzard has not targeted a group of animators they don't like and ignored a group of animators they do, then I'll happily eat crow on that matter. But even today, I've found no official statement from them.

But that is really the small picture: the idea that you can be sold something and yet have no access to the assets except as how the creator wants you to have access to them, for your non-profit uses, is some bullshit. Just saying "well, they probably won't come after you because of X" is irrelevant. They shouldn't be able to come after you at all. Nintendo should not have been able to shut down some porn for Pokemon anymore than they should be able to shutdown some kid dieing of cancer making his own fan animations of two pikachus dancing to "I love you, you love me." If the content was illegal (such as child-porn, something of that nature), that's another story, but that would be in law enforcement's arena.

This kind of BS is how developers, or really anyone not selling a physical product, can shut down anything they don't like. "Fair use" gets trampled on for shit like negative (or just not "good enough") reviews of TV, movies, and video games. Would anyone support Dodge if they gave me a take-down notice because I used video of the vehicle I purchased in a video detailing why it's a junker? But take assets from software you've purchased and somehow that's a grey area because of backwards copyright laws and EULAs.

The way this country, and many others, treat software rights is some of the most anti-consumer BS out there. And that they can pick and choose what they "enforce" is also some bullshit. Imagine actual law was enforced this way: we only target people we don't like and let slip those we do... oh wait....

Either way, I'm going to drop this tangent because I'm getting way off-topic here.

[Darth Nostril]

Sorry bub but using ripped trademark design game assets to make porn is not "Fair use". Not even close.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if you buy a game, physical or digital, then you own that copy, fuck this shift to 'licensing use', but the game assets are still the intellectual/industrial property of the people that made them. They do get to have a say in how they are used because you did not spend thousands or even millions buying the copyright or trademark.
Then we get to the knotty issue of trademarks. Character designs in a video game are usually trademarked, not copyrighted, and if a company does not take action against infringement of trademark then they can lose it.
Yep Blizz have to go after infringers or they could potentially lose the rights to their own product.

Welcome to the 21st century where copyright & trademark laws were written when steam powered locomotives were a new fangled fad and subsequently revised by crusty old white guys who have to get staffers to send electrical messages with those confounded Babbage engines.

[SAMAS]

I believe the answer can be found here. Specifically this bit:

Your Production should meet the rating guidelines for "T" rated Productions
To maintain and protect the image of our games, Blizzard also requires that Productions maintain the "T" rating that has been given to its products by the ESRB, and similar ratings received from other ratings boards around the world, and that these standards are taken into account during the creation of your Production.

It seems so long as your content is a) free and b) rated T they're fine with people using their assets. Whether they can enforce that, I don't know, but it explains why they're targeting porn specifically.

Porn Video, that is. And yes, specifically using Blizzard Assets. Like I said, the guys who got taken down were apparently using the actual character models from the game itself.

So technically, if you made your own models of Tracer, Mei, etc... you can do whatever the hell you want to them. But once you use their stuff specifically, they gotta come after you if you break their policy.