More leaked military documents on War Thunder forums.

[bilateralrope]

ANOTHER Guy Has Leaked Classified Military Documents On The SAME TANK GAME'S forums

I'm sorry for the caps there, but this is at least third time this has happened on War Thunder's forums, and it's getting ridiculous
By Luke Plunkett

Can you keep a secret? Of course you can, you’re an adult. Could you keep military secrets? If threatened with prison (or worse) for revealing them, I bet you could. So why, in God’s name, do people playing the tank video game War Thunder (of all things!) and keep leaking classified military documents?

To recap, this is somehow the third time I am writing this story. The first was in July 2021:

The July case involved a player getting into an argument on the game’s forums about the in-game depiction of Britain’s Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank. To settle the disagreement, they posted what was essentially the tank’s manual, which was an enormously stupid thing to do—especially given it meant the UK’s Ministry of Defence soon got involved.

Then, only three months later:

This latest case involves a player getting into an argument on the game’s forums about the in-game depiction of France’s Leclerc Main Battle Tank. To settle the disagreement, they posted a part of what was essentially the tank’s manual, prompting the forum’s moderators to wonder just what the fuck is wrong with these people

And today we’re back. As first pointed out by @Osinttechnical, in an attempt to get developers to change some in-game stats a Chinese player posted an image on War Thunder’s forums earlier this week showing classified military documents. While I won’t share it here, it was a photo of some armament schematics (for a round fired by Chinese tanks), with one of the actual parts sitting on top of the paper.

The post in question was removed from War Thunder’s forums, but I’ve since seen the image reposted, and then deleted, in multiple instances on those same forums throughout the day. It’s now circulating everywhere from Twitter to Reddit, to the extent that Chinese-speaking players have translated the round’s schematics and have been sharing the data alongside the image (though it should be noted most of the information on was already known).

Gaijin have since banned the user, telling Kotaku:

Our community managers immediately banned the user and deleted his post, as the information on this particular shell is still classified in China. Publishing classified information on any vehicle of any nation at War Thunder forums is clearly prohibited, and the game developers never use it in their work.

While we understand that our players want the game to be as realistic as possible, we’re kindly asking them not to do anything illegal and jeopardise their safety, as well as safety of our community team members. The developers of War Thunder do their best to research information on vehicles using legally available tools, and scandals like this are clearly not useful for our efforts.

The fact that a video game’s forums have become one of the greatest opsec hazards of the modern age, just because some dudes want to argue over a tank’s statistics, is deeply funny.

I've never played War Thunder so I have to ask: Why does it attract these idiots ?
I can't recall a similar incident happening with World of Tanks. Nor any other game.

[AniThyng]

World of tanks doesn't have the same claim to pretense about realism I guess

[ray245]

World of Tanks is also sticking to mainly WW2 era tanks, while Warthunder has more modern stuff.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah there's not much classified stuff with WW2 era tech.

[bilateralrope]

War Thunder Players Are, Once Again, Posting Military Documents On Forums

Maybe they should change the game's slogan to 'Can't stop, won't stop'
ByLuke Plunkett
PublishedYesterday

You may remember that one of the funniest stories of 2022 was the way that players of War Thunder—an arcadey online shooter featuring real military vehicles—just kept on posting military documents in the game’s forums. Not as acts of espionage, but to win arguments about specs.

I am incredibly happy to report, then, that this is shaping up to be one of 2023's funniest stories as well.

The last time we checked in on these guys it was some tank players, who despite ban after ban just kept on sharing detailed, classified information on currently-operational Main Battle Tanks and their armaments.

This week we’ve seen a similar thing happen, only now it’s about fighter aircraft. As Massively OP report, earlier this week a player “shared military documents related to the F-16 fighter jet in order to win an argument”. The problem is that those documents, while not designated as classified military documentation like the tank guys’ stuff, was still restricted material “under the jurisdiction of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), a State Department-enforced law that limits disclosure and transmission of US weapons data and information to foreign individuals, including distribution on the internet”. So, not classified, but still not the kind of thing you should be posting in a video game forum.

Then, just a day later, someone else was at it again! This time a different user posted excerpts from over a dozen weapons system manuals for the F-15E. Again, these weren’t classified—indeed they were for systems old enough that they had been declassified—but like I’ve already said, just because something isn’t classified doesn’t mean you can freely post it on internet forums where anyone in the world can see them. So they were deleted as well.

I said this last year but I will say it again now, the fact that a video game’s forums have become one of the greatest opsec hazards of the modern age, just because some dudes want to argue over a weapon’s statistics, is very funny.

It happened again

[RogueIce]

What is it about, anyway? Gamers butthurt that a particular platform isn't buffed/nerfed enough?

[Solauren]

That, and "oh look how cool I am, I have these'.

Really, just turn the asshates over to the proper authorities. I mean, Warthunder has to have information to track them back, right?

[Isolder74]

What is it with that specific game and people doing that? It makes no sense that they have to show they know more then everyone else and need to cheat beat over some silly game mechanics.

[bilateralrope]

What is it about, anyway? Gamers butthurt that a particular platform isn't buffed/nerfed enough?

At least once someone got that butthurt over a tank on the test server. One that was using placeholder stats that everyone know were going to be changed later.

[bilateralrope]

Oops they did it again: War Thunder player posts NATO restricted military manual for what feels like the hundredth time

By Rich Stanton published about 12 hours ago
Well, they do say military life is all about routine.

The free-to-play military simulator War Thunder is taken incredibly seriously by its playerbase, some might say too seriously, and in recent years has been in the headlines again, and again, and again for one reason: players getting in arguments over the specifications of a given vehicle, until one produces actual real-world classified documents about it. Presumably in triumph. These documents tend to be highly protected—literally classified—and militaries understandably don't want the specs of their hardware floating around on the internet. So you'll never guess what's happened, again.

Well, at least this time it wasn't an argument. One player was especially keen to see the Eurofighter Typhoon added to the game, and thought they'd help the developers along… by posting a 730-page manual for the Eurofighter Typhoon DA7 on the forums, one of the jet's prototypes. "[It] contains EVERYTHING on all the systems, weaponry, flight data, etc," they cheerfully add alongside the Google Drive link. "I hope this data will help the devs add this magnificent jet faster and make it as accurate as possible! Can't wait to fly it in the game!"

A moderator replies within 15 minutes saying "Do not post the DA.7 manuals" and linking to developer Gaijin Entertainment's policy page on classified documents. The document was subsequently scrubbed from the forums with lots of "don't make me tap the sign again" energy.

As War Thunder leaks go, this is one of the less-illegal kind: The manual is public in NATO countries, though is export restricted for non-NATO countries. As the player who spotted the exchange says, "They were not supposed to be readily sold or distributed, as only 7 pages of the manual state 'NATO UNCLASSIFIED'. The rest states 'NATO RESTRICTED', and then there's also the whole copyright thing that goes into these manuals as well."

Gaijin Entertainment's stance is sensible enough: military documents classified in any way are not allowed, so off the document went, alongside yet more pleas to its fans to please stop posting stuff like this.

"For those not familiar: the Eurofighter Typhoon DA7 was one of two prototype Typhoons evaluated by Italy, the other being DA3," said Burkechron. "Germany had DA1 and DA5, The UK had DA2 and DA4, and Spain had DA6. All served as demonstrators/test aircraft for the Typhoon program."

The thread where this actually happened on the War Thunder forums has now descended into arguing over whether the documents are available publicly (they are), whether they should be (unclear), just how serious the 'Nato restricted' classification is, and of course the posting of memes, including the by-now familiar "0 days since classified information leaked on the War Thunder forums".

It really does never seem to end. In 2021 we reported on an argument about a tank, which resulted in the leak of classified documents, a few months after which it almost unbelievably happened again. Chinese anti-tank rounds? Let's have a look at the documentation. Then the start of this year saw a leak concerning the F16 Fighting Falcon which was followed up two days later by another.

Not quite as bad as the previous times in terms of the documents posted. Worse in that the justification is someone wanting that plane added to the game.

[Solauren]

Wow....

now, the questions I have are....

Why are the posters not being turned over to oh, law enforcement for even HAVING this documentation?

Can the 'War Thunder' forums/owner (Whatever the situation is for them, could be a company owned website) get in trouble for this? If so, why are they still allowing the posting of files/images/etc?

HOW THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE GETTING THIS DATA?

.. That is all.

[bilateralrope]

Wow....

now, the questions I have are....

Why are the posters not being turned over to oh, law enforcement for even HAVING this documentation?

Can the 'War Thunder' forums/owner (Whatever the situation is for them, could be a company owned website) get in trouble for this? If so, why are they still allowing the posting of files/images/etc?

HOW THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE GETTING THIS DATA?

.. That is all.

My understanding is that the people posting these documents have legal access to them. Though I admit that I don't know what happens after the War Thunder moderators delete the posts.

The War Thunder devs probably won't get in trouble as long as they swiftly take action every time. Especially if they cooperate fully with the relevant law enforcement.

[Lord Revan]

Still it is telling that when I saw the new post here my first reaction was "AGAIN?!"

Even if a person technically has legal access to certain documents they can still get into loads of trouble posting things like this.

Military organizations or governments don't really look kindly when people use classified material to win internet debates.

[Broomstick]

My understanding is that the people posting these documents have legal access to them.

Legal access is way, way different than permission to distribute.

Pretty sure passing around Top Secret data opens you up to prosecution.

[bilateralrope]

My understanding is that the people posting these documents have legal access to them.

Legal access is way, way different than permission to distribute.

Pretty sure passing around Top Secret data opens you up to prosecution.

No argument there.

All I'm saying that there is no mystery how these people got the documents in question. Only questions about how they could be stupid enough to share them.

[Lord Revan]

The way I understood it is that in this case the plans in question are something that publicly available in NATO countries so one wouldn't have to have special permission to access them, which could give access to any idiot looking for internet clout.

As for the actual classified stuff from earlier I suppose some people have ego that's strong then their capability for rational thinking or maybe they thought since they're not giving it directly to foreign government it's ok.

[LaCroix]

I would not put it above someone to think "The internet is American", though.
I have heard that argument a couple of times over the years when someone demanded that I need to adhere to US customs and laws.

[Zwinmar]

They haven't figured out that a russian based company does not care what the stats actually are, the russian crap in game will always be wish fulfillment.

[LadyTevar]

Update --

The USAF did some housecleaning.

US Air Force punishes 15 officers over top secret leaks

Fifteen US Air National Guard officers have been punished for failing to stop a junior colleague from allegedly leaking classified documents online.

Jack Teixeira has been charged with six counts of retaining and transmitting classified information.
An Air Force report said that officers were "aware of his intelligence-seeking activities" and failed to stop him.
However, it also said none of his supervisors knew the full extent of Mr Teixeira's online activities.

(further down in the article)
The 15 officers who were punished hold ranks that range from staff sergeant - the lowest non-commissioned officer level - to colonel, a senior rank.
They received a variety of penalties, the Air Force said, but privacy laws prevent the military from disclosing lower-ranking officers' punishments, an Air Force spokesperson said.
The 102nd Intelligence Wing commander, Col Sean Riley, was relieved of his command of the unit, which has been taken "off mission" and its tasks given to other units.

[bilateralrope]

I don't think Teixeira leaked anything to the War Thunder forums. Instead, his was a far more serious leak.