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Why is it that everyone has such a huge boner for PC games over console games simply because it allows you to play with a keyboard and mouse?

The only real advantage I can see is the numbers being hotkeys for groups in C&C(for example) or weapons in a FPS. The controllers to me make more sense than the keyboard for ease of controll, but hey that is me. Will you people please explain your position on this?

Precision and Speed

No way that a controller can beat a keyboard & mouse at that.

Try playing a space combat simulator with a controller, or a flight combat simulator. Ideally you'd want a programmable stick and throttle, both with more buttons than the usual console controller.

phongn wrote:Try playing a space combat simulator with a controller, or a flight combat simulator. Ideally you'd want a programmable stick and throttle, both with more buttons than the usual console controller.

Ah, but you see I would lump the joystick in with the console controllers.

And Faram, I have to disagree with the precision and speed comment. I believe that a controll gives one much better control precision-wise.

Death from the Sea wrote:And Faram, I have to disagree with the precision and speed comment. I believe that a controll gives one much better control precision-wise.

I'd have to disagree with you there, IMO the mouse is a superior instrument for aiming. Fanatical Q3 players can hit almost pixel-perfect flick shots, and you won't see anything like that on a console.

The key to the keyboard-mouse combination is the mouse. A mouse, in my opinion, gives far better speed in movement and targeting than a controller does; you can simply move faster and more controllably at that speed. This is preferable in FPS and RTS, where being able to quickly point at and select small or quickly moving targets is necessary. A joystick with even a dead zone of zero still feels significantly more sluggish in comparison, and involves making a larger constant movement (tilting the joystick) to gain a similar effect as just flicking the mouse. Try playing Starcraft with a controller, for instance; it's not pleasant. Why do you think that console ports of action games tend to have auto-lock functions (GTA:VC and Deus Ex come to mind)?

There are some areas where a controller is useful, however -- I use a PS2 controller (connected with a PS-USB adaptor) to play Freespace 2, for instance, which when properly mapped affords quick access to all of the keys I need in addition to decent analog control. It's really about what's faster to access and what type of control is needed.

I say it would depend on the game itself.

in RTS and FPS games, the Mouse gives you a lot of control not only in direction, but speed of movement.

On the other hand, playing a Fighting game on a keyboard is damn near impossible. Controllers and Joysticks are far superior.

In many other action games, the closeness of a directional pad or stick make controllers better, too.

Death from the Sea wrote:

phongn wrote:Try playing a space combat simulator with a controller, or a flight combat simulator. Ideally you'd want a programmable stick and throttle, both with more buttons than the usual console controller.

Ah, but you see I would lump the joystick in with the console controllers.

There is a huge difference between even a marginally-programmable joystick or flightstick and a controller, especially when you add in a throttle.

And Faram, I have to disagree with the precision and speed comment. I believe that a controll gives one much better control precision-wise.

No controller made has the sensitivity of a high-quality optical mouse. The keyboard also has far more uses for hotkeys and such.

Prescision aiming is also easier on a M&K. Try using a sniper rifle on GTA3 or GTA:VC on PS2 and then try on a PC with M&K and it's much easier.

A player shall never receive a more grueling ass whippin' by my hands then when I have control over a keyboard and mouse. Isn't that right Stampede?


I have Q3 for the DC, and HL for the PS2. It's not contest that I play at about quarter effeciency using the controller on those games. However, I have run 2D side scrollers and the like on my computer and cannot for the life of me play them worth shit. On the console though, it's seemingly perfect. To me, depends on the game genre more than anything. Try playing NFS or BF 1942 (flying the planes) with your keyboard and mouse. Then use your trusty Wingman Extreme controller or flight stick.

I play all FPS's with my Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D and my Microsoft Wireless OpticalMouse Blue. The joy has most of my buttons, and does all of my coarse adjustments. I use it to do everything except switch weapons (mousewheel), whatever my left and right mouse buttons are mapped to and aiming. I play so much, that I have become ambidextrous with using the mouse.

A player shall never receive a more grueling ass whippin' by my hands then when I have control over a keyboard and mouse.

The superiority of keyboard/mouse control schemes is kinda moot when everyone is using a controller, isn't it? It's called a "level playing field", where everyone has the same equipment... at which point, the true mark of a winner is SKILL, not having an extra thirty bucks to pony up to purchase a better mouse.

Frankly, I think the anti-controller zealots are just insecure people who can't stand the thought of their 133t kill/death ratios going in the shitter the second they - horror of horrors! - try a new means of control, and thus they never put forth the effort to learn how to be proficient.

SPOOFE wrote:Frankly, I think the anti-controller zealots are just insecure people who can't stand the thought of their 133t kill/death ratios going in the shitter the second they - horror of horrors! - try a new means of control, and thus they never put forth the effort to learn how to be proficient.

If we're still talking about FPS games, the reason why most bash controllers and support mouse+keyboard as being the better way of playing is cause it's a fact.

I can play both mouse+keyboard and controller on FPS games. Have racked up impressive wins with both.

SPOOFE wrote:Frankly, I think the anti-controller zealots are just insecure people who can't stand the thought of their 133t kill/death ratios going in the shitter the second they - horror of horrors! - try a new means of control, and thus they never put forth the effort to learn how to be proficient.

Ignoring the fact that such a method of control is inferior to the mouse/keyboard combination. Fact of the matter is that the mouse and keyboard allow for much easier play of FPS games as well as more fluid control with greater options.

Yeah, well some fact of the matter. When they finally started letting PCrs into DC servers I was still handing over peoples ass' on a silver platter. Give me a means and a target and it's showtime.

In FPS a mouse and keyboard owns any controller, there is no contest.

I played Quake II on the PSX and I have the PC version and I can't see how anyone can play an FPS with a controller, that was my nitpick with Halo too.

I use a graphics tablet/pen or spliced-in Xbox controller for everything. The pen is faster and more precise than a mouse, but doesn't work for FPS or flight sim. I use the controller for those, and although a mouse would probably be better there isn't a real problem.

As far as overall effectiveness goes, you can't beat the keyaboard/mouse. However, playing Medal of Honor with the Playstation controller is just as, if not more, enjoyable as just about any PC FPS I've played. If they game is designed with controllers in mind, it can be just as fun playing with the controller as it would be with a keyboard/mouse.

Basically it depends what you started on....those who were reared on the likes of M+K will find it superior to the likes of controllers and vise versa...there can be an extremely high learning curve to switch from one method to the other....tried both...and honestly having been raised on keyboard and mouse....I much prefer it to anything else to the point where most if not all of these console games would probably work better (imho) with said keyboard and mouse...

it's all opinion basically

Ignoring the fact that such a method of control is inferior to the mouse/keyboard combination.

I'm NOT ignoring it, I addressed that already in my very first sentence. Please learn how to read my posts.

My point is this: Why the hell do YOU give a flying fuck what someone else uses? It doesn't affect you in the slightest. I'm mocking the fact that you feel the need to have this dicksizing contest about different gaming methods.

SPOOFE wrote:

Ignoring the fact that such a method of control is inferior to the mouse/keyboard combination.

I'm NOT ignoring it, I addressed that already in my very first sentence. Please learn how to read my posts.

So? If all you need is a level playing field I suppose you would be content playing an FPS on a console with nothing but a 2-button controller with a 4 direction cross for aiming

So? If all you need is a level playing field I suppose you would be content playing an FPS on a console with nothing but a 2-button controller with a 4 direction cross for aiming

Fallacy of the excluded middle. The fact that a joystick-equipped controller is inferior to a keyboard/mouse combo does not mean that it is not superior to any other form.

But beyond your ignorantly-loaded question, yes, I would not whip out my dick - er, keyboard - and say "Mine's bigger... er, better than yours!" just because someone said they happened to enjoy playing a game that utilized a 2-button controller with a 4 direction cross for aiming. The original Doom, for example, was quite playable - enjoyably so, in my opinion - with such a setup.

this doesn't change the fact that when you are saying that we should take whatever controller comes with the setup and deal with it, you are taking the whole point of the thread away--the point being to debate the relative merits of different controller setups.

SPOOFE wrote:But beyond your ignorantly-loaded question, yes, I would not whip out my dick - er, keyboard - and say "Mine's bigger... er, better than yours!" just because someone said they happened to enjoy playing a game that utilized a 2-button controller with a 4 direction cross for aiming. The original Doom, for example, was quite playable - enjoyably so, in my opinion - with such a setup.

The amount of whinging coming from this area is so overwhelming that I can barely keep my eyes from bleeding as I read it.

The reason DOOM was playable with just six keys was because it was so bleeding simple. All you needed was your directionals, a button to fire, and a button to open doors, and you were done. Trying to use DOOM as an example is almost completely specious, since anyone with a functioning brain can tell you that games have become more advanced since the mid-90s.

The only things that controllers are good for are fighting games and RPGs (and that only because of the limited Final Fantasy style combat scheme--Diablo style games suck on the console).

this doesn't change the fact that when you are saying that we should take whatever controller comes with the setup and deal with it

That is most definitely NOT what I said. Please learn to read.

you are taking the whole point of the thread away--the point being to debate the relative merits of different controller setups.

That most certainly is NOT what the point of the thread is. The OP is pointing out how PC gamers get into a rabid frothfest whenever someone brings up controllers. Again, please learn to read.

The amount of whinging coming from this area is so overwhelming that I can barely keep my eyes from bleeding as I read it.

"Whinging"? I presume you meant "whining." If that's the case, blow me.

I'll ask you again... Why the hell do YOU give a flying fuck what someone else uses? Until you can give a reasonable answer to that, I see no reason why you're even posting in this thread. Is your dick really that small that you need to compensate?

Trying to use DOOM as an example is almost completely specious, since anyone with a functioning brain can tell you that games have become more advanced since the mid-90s.

Using Doom as an example is precisely as specious as using a two-button controller as an example, you stupid fuck. Anyone with a functioning brain can tell you that game controllers have become more advanced since the mid-80s.

For Christ's sake, you nimrods, learn how to READ.