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Since this little part of the boards is now officially the domain of computer related threads and in light of our latest fun I've been thinking about various issues relating to electronic security. More specifically I've been wondering about what horror stories that some of you might have about these issues and your opinions on them.

First off we have the entire DRM thing :-
Of course its a good idea for a company to protect thier products from being ripped off. However, this seems to come at the cost of actual usefulness to the consumer. Is this a trade off we should make? I still recall in the past reading so many wonderful ToS agreements which say that they do not garuntee the product will actually do anything. Take for example now the issue of DVD's, just recently I bought several DVD's and was completely unable to watch them. This was due entirely to copy protection features on the DVD's themselves....despite having paid my money I was unable to make use of the product. I was also unable to return them as stores are now instructed not to exchange DVD's unless they are physically defective....in case of piracy . Eventually after some research I discovered that this is due to the Macrovision and pressure from the MPAA, the latest software being designed to prevent people from viewing DVD's on most computers. However this itself is totally pointless as it prevents legitimate customers from making use of what they have purchased. I had to use software over a year old which bypasses all these copy protection features. Anyone else have any horror stories about this sort of thing?

Now, we move onto the topic of the DMCA :-
I'd love to hear all your thoughts on this wonderful thing. Do you think it is a good or bad thing? Does it impinge upon peoples rights or does it help ensure security? Discuss people.

Finally, the best of the bunch...TCPA :-
Its been quite a while since we had our own little anti-TCPA leauge formed here. It would be nice to see what people think of it in relation to the other issues here such as the entire concept of DRM and how a system which grants external control to what you can and cannot do with what you own(though you will really be more renting under this) can really be supported in a context of DRM at the expense of user's freedoms? Could it possibly deliver on its promises to prevent spam, virii and other such problems or is that all a load of BS (or MS)?


Also, remeber the board policy on illegal activities, so do not provide links to sites that offer cracks or downloads of full software illegally. But feel free to discuss the implications of the things mentioned here.

Keevan_Colton wrote:Since this little part of the boards is now officially the domain of computer related threads and in light of our latest fun I've been thinking about various issues relating to electronic security. More specifically I've been wondering about what horror stories that some of you might have about these issues and your opinions on them.

First off we have the entire DRM thing :-
Of course its a good idea for a company to protect thier products from being ripped off. However, this seems to come at the cost of actual usefulness to the consumer. Is this a trade off we should make? I still recall in the past reading so many wonderful ToS agreements which say that they do not garuntee the product will actually do anything. Take for example now the issue of DVD's, just recently I bought several DVD's and was completely unable to watch them. This was due entirely to copy protection features on the DVD's themselves....despite having paid my money I was unable to make use of the product. I was also unable to return them as stores are now instructed not to exchange DVD's unless they are physically defective....in case of piracy . Eventually after some research I discovered that this is due to the Macrovision and pressure from the MPAA, the latest software being designed to prevent people from viewing DVD's on most computers. However this itself is totally pointless as it prevents legitimate customers from making use of what they have purchased. I had to use software over a year old which bypasses all these copy protection features. Anyone else have any horror stories about this sort of thing?

You might be able to use it on linux or OSX, might not be legal though because of the reverse engineered DRM thing. I don't really care what kind of DRM they put into their products except

Fortunately I don't go buy/rent any videos or DVDs. First, I can't pay for it. Second, I hate media companies, so I won't buy their stuff. I spend most of my time doing other things. Any music I download has been on the radio anyway, so if DL'ing becomes impossible, I'll just hook up the radio to the computer. Problem solved. Then again, the RIAA might go after the radio stations .

For games, profit margins are already slim, so DRM is ok, as long as the damn thing works. Preferably, the DRM will allow one to make a copy of the original for backup purposes (cannot make copy of copy). Unlikely though. However, Palladium and stuff implemented in hardware is bad, since hardware might be rigged to only run stuff that has been "approved" by an authority (most likely M$). That's my main concern. However, I will be stuck with obsolete hardware for years to come, so *shrug*. My computers won't run anything new though, so *shrug*.

Now, we move onto the topic of the DMCA :-
I'd love to hear all your thoughts on this wonderful thing. Do you think it is a good or bad thing? Does it impinge upon peoples rights or does it help ensure security? Discuss people.

Pure evil. Researchers cannot do anything, and it infringes on freedom to innovate. One cannot develop software that deals with media, now that one cannot access anything without something to decode it, and making that would break the law, unless you pay an enormous fee. Also, it's pretty stupid in that strictly a marker would be illegal since one can circumvent protection by marking a CD in a special spot.

Finally, the best of the bunch...TCPA :-
Its been quite a while since we had our own little anti-TCPA leauge formed here. It would be nice to see what people think of it in relation to the other issues here such as the entire concept of DRM and how a system which grants external control to what you can and cannot do with what you own(though you will really be more renting under this) can really be supported in a context of DRM at the expense of user's freedoms? Could it possibly deliver on its promises to prevent spam, virii and other such problems or is that all a load of BS (or MS)?

TCPA is not the threat. Hell, IBM even made a driver for Linux, for accessing the encryption features. The threat is Palladium, and MS's possible future agreements with hardware manufacturers. Rumors tell of some GPU manufacturers planning to drop OpenGL.

Also, remeber the board policy on illegal activities, so do not provide links to sites that offer cracks or downloads of full software illegally. But feel free to discuss the implications of the things mentioned here.

Fixed your quote tag's - Kev.

DRM: Like many things, there are good and bad sides to it. There must be a balance between the consumer's fair use rights (backing it up, for example, or duplication for his own private use on multiple devices) and the right of the IP-holder to ensure that he is compensated for his work.

DCMA: Horrid. It removes far too many rights from the consumer. There needs to be some sort of protection, but that goes to far.

Palladium/TCPA: In theory, a good idea. In implementation, I doubt it will be. It may very well increase computer security, however.

Pu-239 wrote:TCPA is not the threat. Hell, IBM even made a driver for Linux, for accessing the encryption features. The threat is Palladium, and MS's possible future agreements with hardware manufacturers. Rumors tell of some GPU manufacturers planning to drop OpenGL.

Direct3D is pushing the boundaries, adding more and more features, while OpenGL is relatively stagnant. OGL2 still isn't out yet! The market - with all of Microsoft's muscle behind it - is moving to DX.

Well there are the Nvidia extensions to OGL for the time being, which works on Macs, Linux, and Windows, which probably will be eventually supported by ATI and others, until OGL2 comes out. DX only works on Windows, as everyone knows already. Also, there might be wrapper libraries that allow a developer to just use one function for several extensions, like for Javascript; haven't bothered to check.

Well