RTS games and resource mining

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-06-18 09:29am

How many RTS games rely on something other than the resource mining of C&C or Warcraft for the player's income stream?

Just wondering; I used to play a little-known RTS game called "Steel Soldiers" in which your income stream was tied not to mining, but to the amount of territory you control. The more territory you control, the faster the money flows in. I always liked this system.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-18 09:33am

Steel Soldiers? Did it have two comical robot soldiers? Sounds like a game I know called Z. I hated Z's system because the amount of territory you controlled also meant your units built faster (in factories on the territory- there were timers on the factory which said when a unit was about to come out)- so basically, once you had more territory than the other guy you had an advantage that just kept getting bigger ... it was pretty much infuriating. Not exactly much chance for a comeback by the other player.

The whole Real Time Strategy thing is a pathetic misnomer though. There's basic tactics like group all your units and bum rush towards the enemy, but sure as hell no strategy.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-18 09:35am

Ah wait it seems that Z: Steel Soldiers was the sequel to the original Z, which I played. Maybe they refined the system.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-06-18 09:53am

In Rise of Nations, the RTS I'm now playing, besides the usual resources (Timber, iron, food and oil) we have others directly tied to the territory and cities you possess:

Wealth, generated by taxing trade routes (the more cities and territory you possess, the more caravans can travel from one to another)

Knowledge, generated in universities, one per town.

Rare resources, explored by merchantmen.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-06-18 10:51am

Ground Control doesn't rely on resource gathering, for a maximum of 3 dropships, your "boss" allows a limited number of units.
There is still the normal do this, destroy that, but no resrouce gathering.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-06-18 11:06am

In Age of Mythology, favor (to create mythical units or research mythical tech) can be gathered several ways, depending on culture:

Greeks: Send villagers (basic resource gatherer/builder) to pray at a temple, fairly conventional and like mining.
Egyptians: Build monuments that bring in favor. Like a big statue of the Pharoah or a pyramid.
Norse: Fight

or build hesirs, which are like knights but they're chieftans, not noble. They're fighting units and gather favor faster, both while standing still or in combat.

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2003-06-18 11:15am

Force commander.

It had these bunkers scattered over the map, and the more of them you controlled, the more income you got.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-06-18 11:21am

Dark Reign. Rather then mining for metals, you mined for water. Water was extremely valuable and when you mined a certain amount, freighters would launch and you got money. You also had these energy producing buildings and you could mine for a substance that would further increase the energy of these power generators.

Total Annihilation had the standard metal mining, but it was a constant income that always came in. There was also the vast array of types of energy you could pull in.

In an older game called War Games, you infiltrated computer facilities and hacked for money to buy your weapons.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 11:31am

Olrik is Rise of Nations any good? I'm a huge fan of Civ type games but don't want to shell out $50 for a game that might suck

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-18 11:56am

Alyeska wrote:Dark Reign. Rather then mining for metals, you mined for water. Water was extremely valuable and when you mined a certain amount, freighters would launch and you got money. You also had these energy producing buildings and you could mine for a substance that would further increase the energy of these power generators.

Total Annihilation had the standard metal mining, but it was a constant income that always came in. There was also the vast array of types of energy you could pull in.

In an older game called War Games, you infiltrated computer facilities and hacked for money to buy your weapons.

Dark Reign was awesome- it was also incredibly hard to beat. Finishing it was a real act of accomplishment- the AI was actually good in Dark Reign. Dark Reign 2 sucked, however.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-06-18 11:58am

Stravo wrote:Olrik is Rise of Nations any good? I'm a huge fan of Civ type games but don't want to shell out $50 for a game that might suck

Download the demo. Personally, I think it's like Age of Kings but you get to name your Town Centers. *shrugs*

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-06-18 12:03pm

Europa Universalis II is real-time strategy in every sense of the word. Instead of resources, you have gold and manpower. Gold is gained by minting, taxes, loans, special events, etc. etc. and influences what you can build and research and stuff. Manpower is gained by controlling more territory and represets how many thousands of soldiers you can train per year.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-06-18 12:41pm

Real war had supplies being brought to you but you could only build a limited number of centers

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-06-18 01:02pm

Medieval: Total War, though technically that's a hybrid TBS/RTT game.

Hostile Waters: Antaeus Rising had you gain resources by picking up salvage, be it enemy installations or the wrecks of enemy vehicles. IIRC, Battlezone had a similar system.

Mechcommander had a similar system to Ground Control, though in usual Mechwarrior style, you could pick up salvage to make your squads better. The limit was enforced by dropship limitation (slots and tonnage).

Remote Assault is somewhat like Ground Control as well, except that you don't really choose your forces, but rather are limited to whatever is in the area for each mission. On the upside, you can really customize your unit AI so that it will do exactly what you want it to do, so you can make the most out of any units you happen to get.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-06-18 02:12pm

Kohan: Immortal Sovereigns required you to manage the economies of all your cities. Very good RTS, IMO.

Warlords Battlecry 2 is a more traditional fantasy RTS, but instead of mining stuff your hero or other important units could covert things in their radius, including gold mines, stone quarries, etc., which provided you with constant injections of those resources.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-06-18 02:24pm

Hearts of Iron is like EU2, in that the amount of the resources you get is defined solely by how many and which territories you (or sometimes your allies) control. There's nothing quite like playing Germany and desperately shoring up the Romanians' defenses, because if the Russians take Ploesti you're in big trouble...

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-06-18 03:16pm

Not overly sure if it counts, but TA has solar/wind collectors for the energy needed for nanolathing, and stationary mines mine the metal needed for you.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-18 03:18pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:Hearts of Iron is like EU2, in that the amount of the resources you get is defined solely by how many and which territories you (or sometimes your allies) control. There's nothing quite like playing Germany and desperately shoring up the Romanians' defenses, because if the Russians take Ploesti you're in big trouble...

Yeah but manpower in the game drops over time, especially if you're Germany, for the US its always up and up and up....

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-06-18 03:52pm

Stravo wrote:Yeah but manpower in the game drops over time, especially if you're Germany, for the US its always up and up and up....

That's a historical balance issue. If you play as France or a small nation, you'll find that your manpower is prohibitively low--as indeed it was historically. Or you can play as China, the USSR, or the USA, who in history and gameplay had a bigger military population than they knew what to do with.

As the USSR I always had 6000+ manpower; if I understand the game mechanics correctly, that corresponds to 6 million men available for service

Thankfully for the soldiers, my Soviet Union opted to utilize maneuver instead of mass... in my Great Patriotic war, the only Axis soldiers to set foot in Russia were Japanese bastards siezing the very southern tip of Siberia

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-18 07:24pm

Hack the Internet for cash

TheDarkOne · Post by **TheDarkOne** » 2003-06-18 08:33pm

Close Combat didn't have any resource gathering.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-06-18 10:30pm

TheDarkOne wrote:Close Combat didn't have any resource gathering.

True, but that was more of a tactical pitched battle type game, not really related to true RTSs.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-06-18 10:43pm

TheDarkOne wrote:Close Combat didn't have any resource gathering.

Yes it did! You earned experience by keeping the same units in action over time, you earned morale by succeeding, and you earned requisition points by... continuing to play.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-06-18 11:23pm

X-Com. Income depends on how well you do your missions and if you continue to receive funding.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-18 11:28pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
TheDarkOne wrote:Close Combat didn't have any resource gathering.
Yes it did! You earned experience by keeping the same units in action over time, you earned morale by succeeding, and you earned requisition points by... continuing to play.

Only in 1-3, 4 and 5 removed requisition points, made it so moral only ever went down and I don't think experience changed either.