Star Wars Galaxies: another shoddy MMORPG release

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-20 12:14pm

The beta tester non disclosure agreements have been lifted, so everyone's sounding off on the SWG forums. The impression I get is yet another MMORPG mess- buggy, laggy, unoptimized, released too early, etc.

Has any MMORPG ever come out and been stable?

Or any MMO game at all? Whatever happened to WW2 Online, btw?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-20 12:16pm

Something Awful had a lot of screenshots of it...

It sounded a lot like "Whack a random Generic SW monster" instead of
"Galaxy Spanning Epic RPG"

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-20 12:18pm

I've been hearing these rumors swirling around for some time and it doesn;t surprise me. The key problem with MMORPG's is that they are too ambitious. They want to be able to do EVERYTHING right out of teh box instead of releasing a basic system and slowly introducing the new upgrades through the release of updates or downloadbale files.

The SW game had WAY too many things going on at once and I hear that they are having a bitch of a time play balancing Jedi knights. The knights are either so disgustingly powerful that EVERYONE will want to be a Jedi or weakeened to the point that they're no longer Jedo, but guys with fancy laser swords.

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-06-20 12:25pm

I'm a beta tester for it, and i can say it is fantastic. I will be buying it on release (should cash permit). It is pretty, game play is awesome, and it has really cool skills. The Jedi work by doing many VERY hard missions and then you have a small chance of getting it. You then get another slot to start a Jedi char in. if this char dies, it dies for good, and has to stay in hiding because the empire will try to kill you.

Sporkzen · Post by **Sporkzen** » 2003-06-20 12:43pm

Dark age of camelot was stable outta the gate.. but well it turned crappy really fast...

I beta'd for a week or two and thougth it was nice and i'll probably give it a shot.............
i have a bad taste in my mouth from MMORPG's though since i got banned from Ultima after 5 years because i had 1 illegal item in my bank box buried under a shitload of stuff that i had forgotten i had...

*back on topic*

If anything it looks pretty and i liked my oreo colored fat wookie named ebner....

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-06-20 12:47pm

You know what? It can be the best thing since sliced cheese and microwaves...but if they're going to add a subscription then their business will go right down the tubes. I'm sorry, but I refuse (as alot of people do) to pay full price for a game and then have to pay for the privelage of playing?

No Goddamn way.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-06-20 02:11pm

From what I heard from Gabe on Penny Arcade, it really is gonna be trash when it is first released, but may be good once they let you own vehicles to get from town to town with and personaly ships to get from planet to planet.

I ofcourse will have nothing to do with it, like all MMORPG's I refuse to pay to play something I already bought. It's the reason why World of Warcraft is gonna be the first blizzard game I'm not going to own.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-06-20 02:16pm

anarchistbunny wrote:From what I heard from Gabe on Penny Arcade, it really is gonna be trash when it is first released, but may be good once they let you own vehicles to get from town to town with and personaly ships to get from planet to planet.

I ofcourse will have nothing to do with it, like all MMORPG's I refuse to pay to play something I already bought. It's the reason why World of Warcraft is gonna be the first blizzard game I'm not going to own.

They're making WoW pay to play too? OH FFS!

You'd think if they were going to con millions out the gaming industry, they would at least work up a project that actually fucking works!

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-06-20 02:20pm

Coaan wrote:They're making WoW pay to play too? OH FFS!

AFAIK They haven't confirmed it, but they have said it's likely.

Gfraizer, June 17 2003 wrote:Q: What is the monthly fee, what are the payment options?
A: This information hasn't been revealed yet. We understand you're excited to find out but the information has not been finalized at this point.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-06-20 02:25pm

anarchistbunny wrote:
Coaan wrote:They're making WoW pay to play too? OH FFS!
AFAIK They haven't confirmed it, but they have said it's likely.

Gfraizer, June 17 2003 wrote:Q: What is the monthly fee, what are the payment options?
A: This information hasn't been revealed yet. We understand you're excited to find out but the information has not been finalized at this point.

Who started all this pay to play bullshit anyway? Games cost enough as is, the last thing anyone wants is to have to fork out a tenner a month or whatever it is

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-06-20 02:30pm

Y'know, annoying as it is to pay to play, servers cost money. If you don't like it, fine, but quit yer bitchin'. Or go start a communist nation or something, where the government can provide a massive network of server which can provided for free.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-06-20 02:45pm

JediNeophyte wrote:Y'know, annoying as it is to pay to play, servers cost money. If you don't like it, fine, but quit yer bitchin'. Or go start a communist nation or something, where the government can provide a massive network of server which can provided for free.

Haven't you looked at the price of games lately? the companies can afford to maintain those servers long after we're all dead with the profits they pull in. Sure, some games flop, but that doesn't mean people won't buy them and spend cash...it's greed on the company's part

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2003-06-20 03:41pm

Coaan wrote:You know what? It can be the best thing since sliced cheese and microwaves...but if they're going to add a subscription then their business will go right down the tubes. I'm sorry, but I refuse (as alot of people do) to pay full price for a game and then have to pay for the privelage of playing?

If you can provide a business plan that will allow MMORPG's to survive on initial sales alone, without subscription fees to pay for the server, bandwidth, and support costs, then please do so.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2003-06-20 03:43pm

Coaan wrote:Haven't you looked at the price of games lately? the companies can afford to maintain those servers long after we're all dead with the profits they pull in. Sure, some games flop, but that doesn't mean people won't buy them and spend cash...it's greed on the company's part

No, it's not greed. Ultima Online has been running for almost 6 years now. Any profits from sales have long since dried up. Further, yes, I have looked at the prices of games lately. Diablo II cost $10 more than average because Blizzard knew they couldn't afford it otherwise. Other than a very few examples, game prices have fallen due to inflation.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-20 03:48pm

I don't mind pay-for-play games in principle. The problem with them is that they always suck.

Mitth`raw`nuruodo · Post by **Mitth`raw`nuruodo** » 2003-06-20 03:54pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:I don't mind pay-for-play games in principle. The problem with them is that they always suck.

They do tend to suck, and I HATE pay-for-play games in principle... If they really need the money, just raise the price of the game! If it's good, people will still buy it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-21 06:19am

Coaan wrote:You know what? It can be the best thing since sliced cheese and microwaves...but if they're going to add a subscription then their business will go right down the tubes. I'm sorry, but I refuse (as alot of people do) to pay full price for a game and then have to pay for the privelage of playing?

No Goddamn way.

I agree wholeheartedly. I know the rationale, the servers must be paid for, but I'm sorry it's just not me. Maybe when I have lots and lots of steady income due to a comfortable job.

Oh, here's the Penny Arcade article. The same bullshit as in EverQuest, really:

Now that the NDA is no longer hanging over my head I thought I would elaborate a bit on why I won’t be purchasing SWG right away.

I do not personally feel like SWG captures the look and feel of the Star Wars universe as well as I’d like it to.

I decided right away that I wanted to be a bounty hunter and so with blaster in hand I began working my way up that particular skill tree. This involved a lot of shooting of rats, bugs and crabs. At one point on Tatooine I was standing next to a mission terminal waiting for my turn to use it when I saw a large wookie run past me firing wildly over his shoulder as a tiny crab no bigger than a dinner plate chased him through town. How sad I thought to myself. I spent countless hours wandering the hillsides in search of new rats and crabs to shoot. Sometimes I would inadvertently stumble upon too large a rat and be forced to high tail it back to town. I placed my character in auto run and pointed him at the nearest town. As I sat there staring at my Trandoshan bounding across the uneven Tatooine landscape with some kind of super rat closing in on him I thought to myself “This is not how I want to play in the Star Wars Universe.” As I sat there watching this rat slowly gaining on my character my mind flashed back to a conversation I had with Tycho months and months ago.

Tycho had talked me into playing my first MMORPG and I told him that if he ever did that again I’d kick him right in his cream and crackers. After an hour or so of hitting spiders with a bat I was ready to write off the entire genre. He said “What about Star Wars Galaxies?” At the time I told him that Galaxies would be different because it was Star Wars. “It’s not like they’re gonna make you spend hours hitting Wamprats with a stick.” Oh irony, thou art a harsh mistress.

The more I think about it the more I think that there may very well be nothing wrong with Star Wars Galaxies. This just isn’t my kind of game. I think I’m just better off getting my Star Wars fix from games like Jedi Knight and Rogue Squadron. Maybe some day a developer will combine all the best stuff from games like X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter and Jedi Knight into one game that doesn’t involve the poking of rats with sticks. Essentially my fantasy has not changed. I still want to play in a fully realized Star Wars universe. I want to fly a ship I own through space smuggling goods and outrunning Imperials. I want to land that ship on the planet of my choosing and do battle with storm troopers and rival smugglers. I want an action game because the Star Wars movies to me are action movies. That’s why I never liked the Star Wars RTS bullshit. Star Wars for me is not about running around Naboo shooting bugs in order to build up my blaster XP. It is about adventure and I don’t feel like SWG delivers that.

Even after you’ve reached a level where you can take on larger adversaries the battles still aren’t any fun. You click on the thing you want to shoot and then you select from your menu of different attacks. There is no strategy required. You simply choose your best attack and cue it up a couple of times and then wait while your guy shoots the target. If the target comes after you just run away until it stops chasing you and then turn around and repeat the steps above. Stirring Star Wars music plays during a battle and is intended to make the event seem more epic I suppose. The classic arrangement blaring as you take pot shots at a lizard who seems oblivious to your attacks just makes an already absurd situation all the more laughable.

I’m not gonna go into any of the technical problems I had playing the game as those don’t really matter to me. I have no doubt in my mind that all the technical issues I had with the game will be ironed out within the first couple of months. Do I think that people who purchase the game when it first comes out will be paying to beta test it? Absolutely. I also believe that this is no different than any other PC game. The fact is that we as gamers have allowed game companies to do it for years. We have created a world in which it is okay to deliver a game to market that is broken. We have proven time and time again that we will pay good money for toys that do not work. To complain that another game is coming out earlier than it should is pointless. It should be fucking assumed by now that a company will force it’s developers to ship a game before they think it’s ready. This is not news, this is par for the fucking course.

What I’ve decided is that the problem is not with SWG. I believe they have succeeded in creating exactly what they set out to make, a Star Wars MMORPG. The problem is that what they made is not the sort of game I like to play and that’s not a bad thing for anyone but me.

-Gabe out

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-21 07:55pm

Vympel wrote:
Star Wars for me is not about running around Naboo shooting bugs in order to build up my blaster XP. It is about adventure and I don’t feel like SWG delivers that.

Even after you’ve reached a level where you can take on larger adversaries the battles still aren’t any fun. You click on the thing you want to shoot and then you select from your menu of different attacks. There is no strategy required. You simply choose your best attack and cue it up a couple of times and then wait while your guy shoots the target. If the target comes after you just run away until it stops chasing you and then turn around and repeat the steps above. Stirring Star Wars music plays during a battle and is intended to make the event seem more epic I suppose. The classic arrangement blaring as you take pot shots at a lizard who seems oblivious to your attacks just makes an already absurd situation all the more laughable.

Blaster XP? WHat the fuck?! Why not just make that part like an FPS? Maybe there's some rationale behind that whole battle system in MMORPGs, but I sure as fuck can't see it.

That just sounds stupid. How are they gonna handle spaceflight? No battles? The X-wing vs the TIE fighter is just gonna sit there, and you win based on your "Dodge XP" or something?

The whole thing sounds pretty damned stupid to me...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-21 10:27pm

The PA article/rant was just too hilarious for me.

"At one point on Tatooine I was standing next to a mission terminal waiting for my turn to use it when I saw a large wookie run past me firing wildly over his shoulder as a tiny crab no bigger than a dinner plate chased him through town."

Seriously that is somewhat keeping me away from the game...because I am really not caring for spending hours upon hours to then handle...say a bigger lizard.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-06-21 11:00pm

Vympel wrote:The beta tester non disclosure agreements have been lifted, so everyone's sounding off on the SWG forums. The impression I get is yet another MMORPG mess- buggy, laggy, unoptimized, released too early, etc.

Has any MMORPG ever come out and been stable?

Or any MMO game at all? Whatever happened to WW2 Online, btw?

WWII is still there: http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/index.jsp

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-06-22 01:25am

Actually, I've been watching my brother play WW2 Online, and it's finally very polished and professional looking. Subscription numbers are up, and I understand the game is actually turning a profit these days. I'm seriously thinking of joining up.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-06-22 04:55am

Haven't you looked at the price of games lately? the companies can afford to maintain those servers long after we're all dead with the profits they pull in.

Bullshit. Games cost LESS these days, compared to ten years ago (taking inflation into account). Most games barely turn a profit.

Frankly, Junior, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-06-22 10:55am

Frankly for games like this i don't mind Pay to Play. A month ago i bought Ultima Online Age of Shadows. Best thing i ever did. I can't play any other game now. When you look at a game like UO you have 3000 players or so on-line who do you think is maintaining the servers for these games and what with? As far as i'm concerned £7.00 a month to play a cracking game is fair enough. The reason you pay is becasue the game just keeps growing. You pay £30.00 for a one player game and you play it to a finish and forget about it, i do anyway. But games like Ultima On-line and Everquest just keep you playing.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-22 01:33pm

SPOOFE wrote:
Haven't you looked at the price of games lately? the companies can afford to maintain those servers long after we're all dead with the profits they pull in.
Bullshit. Games cost LESS these days, compared to ten years ago (taking inflation into account). Most games barely turn a profit.

Actually, some games cost less in both real and inflationary costs. IIRC, Wing Commander I was rather pricey @ $60 USD retail.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-06-23 05:12am

I'm glad the NDA has finally lifted so I can talk about how much of a piece of shit SWG is (I beta-tested it). Having participated in the SWG community for years before its release, I was full of hope and promise, only to find that they removed every feature and aspect I was hopeful about without a single exception. It's like EQ in almost every way except with blasters instead of swords, except it's even worse because, while it's not intolerable for most to see an orc withstand 5 minutes of being hacked and slashed, the first time I got into a fight with some bats (maybe they were supposed to be Wompas, I honestly don't know) and saw my character sit there, squeezing off shots at multiple second intervals, while the bat fluttered in place in front of me, biting at those same intervals, I became literally sick to my stomach.

No vehicles, no cinematic and innovative combat system, no dynamics, no meaningful ownership, no deep player-based economy, a level treadmill (though it's not called that), unimpressive graphics, buggy, crash-happy, repetitive, boring, and populated by some of the stupidest people on the planet, I can honestly say this is the worst MMORPG I've ever had the misfortune of playing. And for those who say it will get better, I've been a gamer for 15 years and I have yet to see an example of any game becoming great that didn't start that way (ie. Battlecruiser still sucks, WWII Online is merely ho hum, etc.)

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Star Wars Galaxies: another shoddy MMORPG release

Star Wars Galaxies: another shoddy MMORPG release

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