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http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?comments=28619

Can we say: OH MY FUCKING GOD!

I can't remember anything like this EVER happening in the history of games. One thing is clear: this wasn't caused by denial-of-service attacks or keystroke programs; something VERY fishy is going on here....

Someone must really hate Steam and Gabe Newell to be inspired to do this.


Wow.

Once a keystroke program was installed, the attacker(s) could have entered Valve's systems and made copies of the source tree. The [D]DOS attack may or may not have been related.

Why must you automatically assume that a keylogger could not be used as part of the attack?

Some is going to die for this, oh yes.

I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

Chardok wrote:I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

Someone's just nicked the game in code form. With this, people could get hl2 out on the net for anyone to download at will, and change whatever they want.

Chardok wrote:I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

If it's the full source code, someone can compile it and release the game--full version--in pirated glory.

Or so I've been brought to understand.

HL2 will be aimbot city when people go multiplayer

Chardok wrote:I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

One issue is that it would be possible to write up some rather interesting cheat programs since the innards of HL2 are known. Countermeasures against them, even with their new Steam deployment, would be more difficult. One could attempt a man-in-the-middle attack, telling Steam 'all is okay' while the user uses an aimbot, for example.

Of course, the server could be coded to look for abberant results even when being told "yes, I'm getting good data."

There may be less of a need to license the HL2 engine (pun not intended) if developers look at the code and use it as 'inspiration' (rather than outright copying). That's less revenue for Valve, who probably will be trying to make big bucks licensing the engine.

Certain code in there is licensed from other developers, such as the HAVOK physics engine, which is bad for them.

Shinova wrote:

Chardok wrote:I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

If it's the full source code, someone can compile it and release the game--full version--in pirated glory.

No, because the other things like the models, textures and levels are not included in the source.

Chardok wrote:I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

The source code is the actual programming code that Valve used to create HL2. The code is then fed into a compiler which generates a binary executable that the computer can run. But the CD that you buy at the store doesn't contain the acutal code, just the compiled binary. It is impossible then to modify parts of the game that Valve doesn't allow you to.

With the full source code, moders can tear apart Valve's Source engine and remake it into anything they wish. This is the IP value of the engine that Valve hopes to license to third parties to make games. Now that the engine code has been compromised ANYONE can use it to make a game.

Oh, well shit, that sucks fucking balls. I've never played HL...is it all that? And when does HL2 release?

phongn wrote:Once a keystroke program was installed, the attacker(s) could have entered Valve's systems and made copies of the source tree. The [D]DOS attack may or may not have been related.

Why must you automatically assume that a keylogger could not be used as part of the attack?

I didn't assume that, I'm just saying that Valve isn't being entirely truthful about the attack. This is likely due to the fact that HL2 contained the licensed HAVOK II physics engine that Valve is in a lot of shit for letting the source get leaked.

The Kernel wrote:With the full source code, moders can tear apart Valve's Source engine and remake it into anything they wish. This is the IP value of the engine that Valve hopes to license to third parties to make games. Now that the engine code has been compromised ANYONE can use it to make a game.

Of course, no actual company in their right mind would even dream of doing so - for such a thing could be detected, probably fairly easily - but the IP-licensing thing is a big issue.

Chardok wrote:Oh, well shit, that sucks fucking balls. I've never played HL...is it all that? And when does HL2 release?

HL2 was delayed an unspecified amount of time from the original release date of 30 September.

phongn wrote:

The Kernel wrote:With the full source code, moders can tear apart Valve's Source engine and remake it into anything they wish. This is the IP value of the engine that Valve hopes to license to third parties to make games. Now that the engine code has been compromised ANYONE can use it to make a game.

Of course, no actual company in their right mind would even dream of doing so - for such a thing could be detected, probably fairly easily - but the IP-licensing thing is a big issue.

Not to copy the exact source but to get ideas on the state of the art concepts and code that was planted in the Source and HAVOK engines. These things take lots of research to develop and now that information is freely availible.

The Kernel wrote:Not to copy the exact source but to get ideas on the state of the art concepts and code that was planted in the Source and HAVOK engines. These things take lots of research to develop and now that information is freely availible.

I did note that in an earlier post

Shinova wrote:

Chardok wrote:I don't understand....what is the big deal about leaking the source code? What are the implications here? Why is it so important? Keeping in mind i'm woefully unknowledgable (Is that a word?) about such super-technical things.

If it's the full source code, someone can compile it and release the game--full version--in pirated glory.

Or so I've been brought to understand.

This isn't the issue since you can pirate with only the binary--you don't need the source code.

phongn wrote:

The Kernel wrote:Not to copy the exact source but to get ideas on the state of the art concepts and code that was planted in the Source and HAVOK engines. These things take lots of research to develop and now that information is freely availible.

I did note that in an earlier post

D'oh, sorry, this topic is getting so much attention, it's hard to get through all the posts. Anyways, you're absolutely right and I think that Valve is in some awfully deep shit right now. Who knows what the long term implications of this are, but I see lawsuits on the horizon...

How fucking stupid do you have to be to keep the source code on a machine that has an internet connection?

I bet it was John Carmack.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:How fucking stupid do you have to be to keep the source code on a machine that has an internet connection?

AFAIK, most source at most corporations are kept on machines that use Internet connections.

Valve may have goodly funding, but might not have enough for a segregated offline LAN and an Internet-connected LAN for their coders.

phongn wrote: AFAIK, most source at most corporations are kept on machines that use Internet connections.

Valve may have goodly funding, but might not have enough for a segregated offline LAN and an Internet-connected LAN for their coders.

Ah. So what could they have done differently to prevent this, if anything?

Quite a bit. That particular Outlook exploit was fixed some time ago. Their security doesn't seem to have been too good, either, but that's only my amateur opinion - one without too much information.