ADSL Broadband (ATM "protocol"?)
Moderator: Thanas
- Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6730
- Joined: 2002-09-10 05:35pm
- Location: Where The Sea Meets The Sky
- Contact:
ADSL Broadband (ATM "protocol"?)
I just obtained an internet broadband service from a certain monolithic communications company. The service is a 128/64 kbit/ ADSL (download/upload respectively) and I must say it's crap.
I don't know if anyone here knows about ATM specifications, but there's a certain thing called PCR (Peak Cell Rate) that means the absolute top minimum of a transmission burst. There's another thing called SCR (Sustainable Cell Rate) which is the minimum guaranteed burst or something. Apparently, the amount recommended by the ITU is that the Peak be about the same as the advertised rate (128) while the Sustainable be about 10% of that (12.8 kbits/s)
Now, I've done some research, and this basically means that at more than the SCR, cells may be lost and I don't know what crap, while the PCR is the amount that's been calculated will arrive at its destination 100% of the time. The stupid thing is, the company interprets this SCR (10%) as the least amount they're forced to give you!
This means they think that as long as you receive more than 10% you've got nothing to complain about. If I get at least 1.6 kbyte/sec (pathetic, I know) it means everything's peachy and the system is functioning perfectly, and I'm still bound by their contract. (grr)
Anyone here is knowledgeable enough to give me some advice about that? Or maybe a layman-friendly way to explain to them what SCR is and what it's not? I keep calling customer service and all they give me is this shit that "it's above the minimum" and I tell them stuff like "sure, if you want to be a MEDIOCRE service you'll always give customers the minimum" - that doesn't convince them, but at least after that I get promises that they'll "look into it and see what they can do".
I'm so angry, I could break something.
EDIT: As an added note, this thing will cost me about $45 US dollars each month
I don't know if anyone here knows about ATM specifications, but there's a certain thing called PCR (Peak Cell Rate) that means the absolute top minimum of a transmission burst. There's another thing called SCR (Sustainable Cell Rate) which is the minimum guaranteed burst or something. Apparently, the amount recommended by the ITU is that the Peak be about the same as the advertised rate (128) while the Sustainable be about 10% of that (12.8 kbits/s)
Now, I've done some research, and this basically means that at more than the SCR, cells may be lost and I don't know what crap, while the PCR is the amount that's been calculated will arrive at its destination 100% of the time. The stupid thing is, the company interprets this SCR (10%) as the least amount they're forced to give you!
This means they think that as long as you receive more than 10% you've got nothing to complain about. If I get at least 1.6 kbyte/sec (pathetic, I know) it means everything's peachy and the system is functioning perfectly, and I'm still bound by their contract. (grr)
Anyone here is knowledgeable enough to give me some advice about that? Or maybe a layman-friendly way to explain to them what SCR is and what it's not? I keep calling customer service and all they give me is this shit that "it's above the minimum" and I tell them stuff like "sure, if you want to be a MEDIOCRE service you'll always give customers the minimum" - that doesn't convince them, but at least after that I get promises that they'll "look into it and see what they can do".
I'm so angry, I could break something.
EDIT: As an added note, this thing will cost me about $45 US dollars each month
ISPs are not required to give you full bandwidth. Virtually all "oversubscribe" to one extent to another on the assumption that the vast majority of their users are not online all the time. However, check with your DSL line provider (not your ISP). Sometimes they mess up and plug you into the wrong line - once they accidentially put us on a 64kbps line when doing maintenance. We paid for a 768/128 line.
However, what does ATM have to do with anything? ADSL does not use that protocol, AFAIK.
However, what does ATM have to do with anything? ADSL does not use that protocol, AFAIK.
- Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6730
- Joined: 2002-09-10 05:35pm
- Location: Where The Sea Meets The Sky
- Contact:
This one restricts your connection so you have to upgrade to a newer one. Users of 128 kbit get less than half that, while those who pay for 512 kbits get at least 70-80% of the advertised speed.phongn wrote:ISPs are not required to give you full bandwidth. Virtually all "oversubscribe" to one extent to another on the assumption that the vast majority of their users are not online all the time.
The same company owns the phone service, TV cable, cablemodem, ADSL, and all ISPs. There are a few other companies that give service with their own system (like some sort of antenna dish and stuff) but they're shit.However, check with your DSL line provider (not your ISP).
The problem here, is that they take the (out of context) 10% quote, say "hey, you're getting more than 10%, don't bother us" and only when I tell them that other users (with my same service) get more than I do they even consider listening to me.Sometimes they mess up and plug you into the wrong line - once they accidentially put us on a 64kbps line when doing maintenance. We paid for a 768/128 line.
From http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/glossary/adsl.htmHowever, what does ATM have to do with anything? ADSL does not use that protocol, AFAIK.
ATM
Asynchronous Transfer Mode: an ultra high speed cell-based data transmission protocol which may be run over ADSL.
Okay, that's stupid. Bait and switch.Slartibartfast wrote:This one restricts your connection so you have to upgrade to a newer one. Users of 128 kbit get less than half that, while those who pay for 512 kbits get at least 70-80% of the advertised speed.
Ah, shit, I forgot you don't live in CONUS. Sorry, I have no idea what to do, then.The same company owns the phone service, TV cable, cablemodem, ADSL, and all ISPs. There are a few other companies that give service with their own system (like some sort of antenna dish and stuff) but they're shit.
As far as the ATM thing, sure, it can be used, but are you absolutely sure that ATM is the protocol being used? I can't see why it's being used for something as basic as home internet service.
- Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6730
- Joined: 2002-09-10 05:35pm
- Location: Where The Sea Meets The Sky
- Contact:
Don't know if it's stupid, but it works and the users are powerless against it. It's not like anyone's going to actually fine them or anything. Once you "sign" the contract, you're bound by it for a year even if they fuck you over. Only after that year you can cancel the deal.phongn wrote:Okay, that's stupid. Bait and switch.Slartibartfast wrote:This one restricts your connection so you have to upgrade to a newer one. Users of 128 kbit get less than half that, while those who pay for 512 kbits get at least 70-80% of the advertised speed.
Yes, it uses the TCP/IP protocol over ATM. The law says that they must provide the service according to the following specifications:Ah, shit, I forgot you don't live in CONUS. Sorry, I have no idea what to do, then.The same company owns the phone service, TV cable, cablemodem, ADSL, and all ISPs. There are a few other companies that give service with their own system (like some sort of antenna dish and stuff) but they're shit.
As far as the ATM thing, sure, it can be used, but are you absolutely sure that ATM is the protocol being used? I can't see why it's being used for something as basic as home internet service.
Code: Select all
Download PCR SCR
128 Kbps / 64 Kbps 128 12.8
256 Kbps / 128 Kbps 256 25.6
512 Kbps / 128 Kbps 512 51.2
2.048 Mbps / 300 Kbps 2016 201.6
Upload PCR SCR
128 Kbps / 64 Kbps 64 6.4
256 Kbps / 128 Kbps 128 12.8
512 Kbps / 128 Kbps 128 12.8
2.048 Mbps / 300 Kbps 320 32
PCR = Peak Cell Rate
SCR = Sustainable Cell Rate
Say you buy a Pentium 4 with 2 Ghz. But for some reason, it only gives you 1 Ghz. You complain with the salesman, and he tells you "well, here it says the bus is 133 Mhz, which means that's the minimum we're supposed to give ya!". Same thing here
A more correct analogy is this: say you buy a wave pool (that kind of pool that makes waves, like a beach), and it says that the base surface depth is, let's say 5 meters. The pool is supposed to make waves 5 meters tall, that's 10 meters counting from the bottom of the pool. But you only get about 2 (+5 = 7). You complain, and they tell you that unless it's making waves lower than the base (that's would be a completely static pool) you don't have a basis for your complaint
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Unfortunately, if they put that bullshit in the contract and you signed it, then you're screwed. It's obviously not industry-standard, and it's clearly not ethical, but that's never stopped big businesses before.
I've had several different broadband services here in Toronto starting with 64kbps ISDN and moving up to 1MBps DSL and 3 MBps DSL, and they've always given full advertised download speed. If they didn't, I would have complained. But then again, Canada seems to be well-serviced for broadband (a 1 Mbps connection costs $45 CDN/month, which is equivalent to roughly $34 US/month).
I've had several different broadband services here in Toronto starting with 64kbps ISDN and moving up to 1MBps DSL and 3 MBps DSL, and they've always given full advertised download speed. If they didn't, I would have complained. But then again, Canada seems to be well-serviced for broadband (a 1 Mbps connection costs $45 CDN/month, which is equivalent to roughly $34 US/month).
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6730
- Joined: 2002-09-10 05:35pm
- Location: Where The Sea Meets The Sky
- Contact:
Actually, the contract just points that they follow the regulation, provides a link to the reg. document, and "interprets" it that they only guarantee 10% like IT SAYS IN THE DOCUMENT. But the document says no such thing. The regulation is that the 128 kbps service should use a 12.8 kbps Sustainable Cell Rate, the 256 kbps should use 25.6 kbps SCR, and so on and so forth.
The nature of ATM is that it is 1) asynchronous 2) it doesn't guarantee that 100% of the packets wil get to the destination (no error checking). This SCR simply means that 10% of the bandwidth SHOULD be synchronous and loss-free, not that it is the minimum they can give you. As I said, it's like a regulation or specification states that all Pentiums 533 should use 133 mhz buses, therefore if your Pentium 533 benchmarks at anything over 133 (even if it's less than 533) then it's working correctly.
The nature of ATM is that it is 1) asynchronous 2) it doesn't guarantee that 100% of the packets wil get to the destination (no error checking). This SCR simply means that 10% of the bandwidth SHOULD be synchronous and loss-free, not that it is the minimum they can give you. As I said, it's like a regulation or specification states that all Pentiums 533 should use 133 mhz buses, therefore if your Pentium 533 benchmarks at anything over 133 (even if it's less than 533) then it's working correctly.
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
In that case, they're probably just assuming that no one is going to sue them. Anyone who could afford to sue them would have gotten the higher-end service, while people who try to go cheap will never sue them and they can afford to be abusive. Smart business, unfortunately.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
I've not had time to put too much research into this, but the ISP-tech's use of SCR as the minimum QoS you get is setting off all three bells and several lights on the bullshit detector.
(At least part of that is the fact that it's an answer from an ISP, in whom I place incredibly little faith)
More will follow, when I've had a chance to poke this issue.
(At least part of that is the fact that it's an answer from an ISP, in whom I place incredibly little faith)
More will follow, when I've had a chance to poke this issue.
- Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6730
- Joined: 2002-09-10 05:35pm
- Location: Where The Sea Meets The Sky
- Contact:
And I thought my adsl connection sucked.
Sure its over priced & low bandwidth(256/64 kbps) but I get exactly whats advertised.
Sure its over priced & low bandwidth(256/64 kbps) but I get exactly whats advertised.
"Okay, I'll have the truth with a side order of clarity." ~ Dr. Daniel Jackson.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." ~ Stephen Colbert
"One Drive, One Partition, the One True Path" ~ ars technica forums - warrens - on hhd partitioning schemes.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." ~ Stephen Colbert
"One Drive, One Partition, the One True Path" ~ ars technica forums - warrens - on hhd partitioning schemes.