Shitting in GWS's punch bowl
Posted: 2003-10-26 02:50am
I'm posting this to every relevant internet forum and message board I can find because I'm completely disgusted by GWS's sloppy work with Necromunda: Underhive and their subsequent complete unwillingness to address or even acknowledge any of the questions regarding the copious errata for the new rulebook. I covered some of this material in my previous "GWS sucks" thread (with a lot more profanity), but some of it's new and excising the previously posted bits would have made it incoherent.
Anyway, please tell me if I'm out of line with my bitching or if I'm off-base here. Also feel free to suggest other forums that this should be posted to. I have a heart full of hate and a fair amount of free time.
EDIT: Suggestions on how to improve this rich seam of hatred that I'm mining are also welcome!
---
GWS's Necromunda was my all-time favorite miniature battle game. Naturally, I was excited when I heard a revised edition was coming out. I even dropped some extra bucks and ordered Necromunda: Underhive through their UK mail order to get it a month early (or half a year early as it turned out when they pushed back the US release date to January).
I was in for a nasty surprise. Not only did they neglect to fix any of the previous edition's copious errata (most of which could have been fixed with slight re-wordings or an extra sentence here and there), there was even more errata and a great many typos due to a very sloppy editing job. I'd dropped my money (including international shipping prices) on a revision that was markedly inferior to the original product. I had to double-check to make sure I hadn't picked up a Microsoft product by accident.
So I and numerous others asked about various issues concerning the new rules on the GWS Necromunda forum. The moderator on the related GWS 40K Universe forum suggested we make a list of the errata and post it to the Necromunda forum so the editor working on the Necromunda line could make a note of it for the future.
So I and others posted some of the errata we found on the Necromunda forum. I'll admit, we did on occasion express our lack of enthusiasm over paying good money for a poorly edited product from a professional company, but for the most part we tried to stay positive. I even included notes about positive aspects of the changes as well as the mistakes in editing.
So what was GWS's response? They're deleting the posts referring to any errata. They're even deleting old posts asking about the revised release date. They've even erased my post asking if the next Necromunda magazine was going to be available in US stores! Heaven forbid that I ask if I can get their product locally.*
*(Here's another nice little "Screw you for your loyalty" from GWS, this time for the US retailers -- they're going to discontinue making mini blisters for Specialist Games' products available to independent US stores. The rulebooks will still be available, but the minis -- the big money part of the biz -- will only be available through mail order or bitz orders (the latter a time-consuming pain-in-the-neck special order option for retailers). The GWS rep for our local store even told them that they'd be expected to push the Specialist Games harder since the customers would have to go online for the minis. That's like Pepsi asking the local convenience store to encourage people to buy their soda in cases at Safeway instead.)
Consequently, half the new posts in the Necromunda forum are asking questions that have been answered numerous times but the threads addressing them have been deleted. And you know what the most embarrassing/insulting part of it? They're not even doing a good job destroying the evidence. All of the thread headers contain the original number of posts, including the ones that have been subsequently deleted.
If I and others were just trashing their product, I could understand them wanting to ditch the posts, but most of the posts in question were genuine attempts to contribute toward improving their product. If they'd prefer that those topics be addressed elsewhere, that's fine, too. Just let us know! But providing a forum for input then simply erasing any questions that imply there might be a problem is a slap in the face.
Some players emailed the GWS Roolzboyz trying to get answers regarding Necromunda: Underhive errata. They've all been told to just use the old rules. If they don't have the old rules, they'll just have to wait for a rules update. Now that’s customer service at its finest!
I still don't know if I've adequately expressed what a horrible editing job GWS did. It took me all of an afternoon to gather all of the official errata from the web, sort out which items didn't need to be included in an errata sheet as they were already adequately explained in the rules if you read them, and sort the rest out in page order of their appearance in the rules. I guess GWS's revised edition editor couldn't find three hours to do this because he was busy putting typos in while cutting and pasting.
The arrangement of some of the background material was sloppy, too. There are two full-page fluff pieces early on in the book. On the plus side, both pieces are actually fairly entertaining and help establish the atmosphere of Necromunda. Still, here are two serious negatives if you're not already familiar with the Necromunda background though (which I was). The first story is about a ganger that has been sold to the guilders and turned into a pit slave. This is about as confusing an introductory piece as you can get for a new player as you have no idea what any of the factions are and how they or the character's situation relate to game-play (and frankly, the story doesn't really relate at all unless you're playing a home-brew scenario). The second piece is better in this regard as it features a lone heavy fighting a pit slave. However, this leads us to the second problem with both pieces: they heavily feature pit slaves but don't include rules for pit slaves either as hired guns or as a gang. That's like introducing a Lord of the Rings game by using excerpts from the Mines of Moria and Helm's Deep battles then not bothering to include rules for goblins, orcs, and uruk-hai.
(BTW, the Pit Slaves gang rules are available on the Necromunda website, though getting there is a little counter-intuitive due to the goofy webpage layout used.)
A simple one-page description of the background as a preface would have helped immensely. There is more extensive fluff in the back of the book and I can understand some of the rationale for putting the rules up front, but a little intro primer for people new to the game would make it a bit more user-friendly.
Here's another gripe while I'm whining. GWS held off on including any of the Outlanders material because they're still revising it, which is understandable. Then, in Necromunda Magazine volume 2, issue #1, released concurrently with the Necromunda: Underhive revised rulebook, they included the rules for Treacherous Conditions and Leadership Challenges WITH NO CHANGES. The fact that there were no changes in and of itself is fine, since there weren't any problems with those rules IMO. However, if they weren't being changed, why not just include them in the rulebook?
It gets better though. One of the moderator posts on the Necromunda forum promised that they would address rules errata and clarification for the revised edition in Necromunda Magazine issue #3. Instead, they dropped this for issue #3 and instead included an article detailing the new rules changes, once again ignoring the many players who would like some answers to their rules questions. I would have appreciated the inclusion of the new rules in Necromunda Magazine so that players with previous editions didn't have to buy a new rulebook if I'd known about it beforehand. As it is, I feel like I just got suckered into buying the new rulebook for 10x the price of the magazine that now includes all of the relevant material.
Necromunda Magazine #3 also updated the special characters, but didn't bother to include point costs. Seeing as gang ratings (and thus the XP and money you get after the game) are based on said costs, that's problematic.
I spent a fair amount of money on GWS's products over the years and have encouraged others to do that same because I enjoyed their work. But if this is how customer loyalty is rewarded, then to hell with them. I'm through paying money for their products and I'm though encouraging anyone else to do the same. If I ever run a Necromunda campaign again, I'm using the old rules and I'll give bonuses to any players whose gangs are made of *non-GWS* minis, I hate the company that much right now.
G-W-S spells "customer satisfaction" once again!
-- Roy Cowan
P.S.: For those who care about the rules changes, here's a brief summary. I'm not going to send anyone full copies of the new rules changes, so please don't ask. While I disagree with their actions, I still respect their IP rights, including their copyright.
*They've adjusted the weaponry rules for hand flamers, shotgun scatter shot, and sustained fire since GWS no longer makes the smaller flame template, 1” blast template, or sustained fire dice. These changes don't make much difference one way or the other.
*There's a new overkill rule for high-ST weapons.
*There are now House-specific equipment lists for basic gangs. It’s an interesting idea, but the application is lousy. Most of the people I talked to or seen post on various forums either tweaked them or dumped them entirely.
Anyway, please tell me if I'm out of line with my bitching or if I'm off-base here. Also feel free to suggest other forums that this should be posted to. I have a heart full of hate and a fair amount of free time.
EDIT: Suggestions on how to improve this rich seam of hatred that I'm mining are also welcome!
---
GWS's Necromunda was my all-time favorite miniature battle game. Naturally, I was excited when I heard a revised edition was coming out. I even dropped some extra bucks and ordered Necromunda: Underhive through their UK mail order to get it a month early (or half a year early as it turned out when they pushed back the US release date to January).
I was in for a nasty surprise. Not only did they neglect to fix any of the previous edition's copious errata (most of which could have been fixed with slight re-wordings or an extra sentence here and there), there was even more errata and a great many typos due to a very sloppy editing job. I'd dropped my money (including international shipping prices) on a revision that was markedly inferior to the original product. I had to double-check to make sure I hadn't picked up a Microsoft product by accident.
So I and numerous others asked about various issues concerning the new rules on the GWS Necromunda forum. The moderator on the related GWS 40K Universe forum suggested we make a list of the errata and post it to the Necromunda forum so the editor working on the Necromunda line could make a note of it for the future.
So I and others posted some of the errata we found on the Necromunda forum. I'll admit, we did on occasion express our lack of enthusiasm over paying good money for a poorly edited product from a professional company, but for the most part we tried to stay positive. I even included notes about positive aspects of the changes as well as the mistakes in editing.
So what was GWS's response? They're deleting the posts referring to any errata. They're even deleting old posts asking about the revised release date. They've even erased my post asking if the next Necromunda magazine was going to be available in US stores! Heaven forbid that I ask if I can get their product locally.*
*(Here's another nice little "Screw you for your loyalty" from GWS, this time for the US retailers -- they're going to discontinue making mini blisters for Specialist Games' products available to independent US stores. The rulebooks will still be available, but the minis -- the big money part of the biz -- will only be available through mail order or bitz orders (the latter a time-consuming pain-in-the-neck special order option for retailers). The GWS rep for our local store even told them that they'd be expected to push the Specialist Games harder since the customers would have to go online for the minis. That's like Pepsi asking the local convenience store to encourage people to buy their soda in cases at Safeway instead.)
Consequently, half the new posts in the Necromunda forum are asking questions that have been answered numerous times but the threads addressing them have been deleted. And you know what the most embarrassing/insulting part of it? They're not even doing a good job destroying the evidence. All of the thread headers contain the original number of posts, including the ones that have been subsequently deleted.
If I and others were just trashing their product, I could understand them wanting to ditch the posts, but most of the posts in question were genuine attempts to contribute toward improving their product. If they'd prefer that those topics be addressed elsewhere, that's fine, too. Just let us know! But providing a forum for input then simply erasing any questions that imply there might be a problem is a slap in the face.
Some players emailed the GWS Roolzboyz trying to get answers regarding Necromunda: Underhive errata. They've all been told to just use the old rules. If they don't have the old rules, they'll just have to wait for a rules update. Now that’s customer service at its finest!
I still don't know if I've adequately expressed what a horrible editing job GWS did. It took me all of an afternoon to gather all of the official errata from the web, sort out which items didn't need to be included in an errata sheet as they were already adequately explained in the rules if you read them, and sort the rest out in page order of their appearance in the rules. I guess GWS's revised edition editor couldn't find three hours to do this because he was busy putting typos in while cutting and pasting.
The arrangement of some of the background material was sloppy, too. There are two full-page fluff pieces early on in the book. On the plus side, both pieces are actually fairly entertaining and help establish the atmosphere of Necromunda. Still, here are two serious negatives if you're not already familiar with the Necromunda background though (which I was). The first story is about a ganger that has been sold to the guilders and turned into a pit slave. This is about as confusing an introductory piece as you can get for a new player as you have no idea what any of the factions are and how they or the character's situation relate to game-play (and frankly, the story doesn't really relate at all unless you're playing a home-brew scenario). The second piece is better in this regard as it features a lone heavy fighting a pit slave. However, this leads us to the second problem with both pieces: they heavily feature pit slaves but don't include rules for pit slaves either as hired guns or as a gang. That's like introducing a Lord of the Rings game by using excerpts from the Mines of Moria and Helm's Deep battles then not bothering to include rules for goblins, orcs, and uruk-hai.
(BTW, the Pit Slaves gang rules are available on the Necromunda website, though getting there is a little counter-intuitive due to the goofy webpage layout used.)
A simple one-page description of the background as a preface would have helped immensely. There is more extensive fluff in the back of the book and I can understand some of the rationale for putting the rules up front, but a little intro primer for people new to the game would make it a bit more user-friendly.
Here's another gripe while I'm whining. GWS held off on including any of the Outlanders material because they're still revising it, which is understandable. Then, in Necromunda Magazine volume 2, issue #1, released concurrently with the Necromunda: Underhive revised rulebook, they included the rules for Treacherous Conditions and Leadership Challenges WITH NO CHANGES. The fact that there were no changes in and of itself is fine, since there weren't any problems with those rules IMO. However, if they weren't being changed, why not just include them in the rulebook?
It gets better though. One of the moderator posts on the Necromunda forum promised that they would address rules errata and clarification for the revised edition in Necromunda Magazine issue #3. Instead, they dropped this for issue #3 and instead included an article detailing the new rules changes, once again ignoring the many players who would like some answers to their rules questions. I would have appreciated the inclusion of the new rules in Necromunda Magazine so that players with previous editions didn't have to buy a new rulebook if I'd known about it beforehand. As it is, I feel like I just got suckered into buying the new rulebook for 10x the price of the magazine that now includes all of the relevant material.
Necromunda Magazine #3 also updated the special characters, but didn't bother to include point costs. Seeing as gang ratings (and thus the XP and money you get after the game) are based on said costs, that's problematic.
I spent a fair amount of money on GWS's products over the years and have encouraged others to do that same because I enjoyed their work. But if this is how customer loyalty is rewarded, then to hell with them. I'm through paying money for their products and I'm though encouraging anyone else to do the same. If I ever run a Necromunda campaign again, I'm using the old rules and I'll give bonuses to any players whose gangs are made of *non-GWS* minis, I hate the company that much right now.
G-W-S spells "customer satisfaction" once again!
-- Roy Cowan
P.S.: For those who care about the rules changes, here's a brief summary. I'm not going to send anyone full copies of the new rules changes, so please don't ask. While I disagree with their actions, I still respect their IP rights, including their copyright.
*They've adjusted the weaponry rules for hand flamers, shotgun scatter shot, and sustained fire since GWS no longer makes the smaller flame template, 1” blast template, or sustained fire dice. These changes don't make much difference one way or the other.
*There's a new overkill rule for high-ST weapons.
*There are now House-specific equipment lists for basic gangs. It’s an interesting idea, but the application is lousy. Most of the people I talked to or seen post on various forums either tweaked them or dumped them entirely.
