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Atari needs to fucking DIE for what they did to Toee (Temple of elemental evil)

After buying the game on average to almost baldurs gate 2 level reviews, I came home..and installed a heap of trash..yep it was that bad out the box that It could almost rival Pool of radiance 2 for absolute buggy goodness ( read, baaaaaaad programming bugs...not the kind you stomp on) for example.

Scrolling didn't work..yes..you heard me...you could not scroll..or at least at a speed that made a difference.

You are also limited in ways such as, an almost flat down 640x480 display as the 'game area' from which you cannot zoom out or alter...if you can find anything with it...I will name you a genius

There is no ability to customize your team whatsoever save for pick different classes. No customization whatsoever. Np portraits...no sounds..no nice mods that might have made the game interesting..Nothing. There is also no multiplayer. Atari apparantly came and announced that it 'saw no need' for either customization or multiplayer...despite the massive market there has been in the past for the likes of this.

It needed a patch before it added half the features it said it had in the manual...for example..the ability to scroll and turn off the fucking annoying base sound sets

So far...the plot is a joke, the conversation scripts are laughable and the combat system is atrosious. Anyone who ever played and hated pool of radiance is advised to avoid...this..

The only thing I will praise this game on is graphics. The ability to fully change and see what your characters are wearing is a nice touch...right down to the billowing cloaks when they move and the piecemail suits that you get..As well as everything that ythe character wears is shown on the paperdoll...for this...I'll say its superior to baldurs gate 2...but given the resources it hogs to do this...the 3d graphics is obviously where they spent all their time, hoping to lure everyone in to play this steaming manure mound they packaged. Eh...it works sort of..it's very alluring despite said faults.

There comes another thing, resources. It devours them...even with the two patches I was forced to download...it still moves sluggishly on minimum settings...given I've only got an 850 but still...it should still fucking run and not leave me having to restart after quitting it.

Overall...this game could...and should be used to help use crops grow as fertilizer...not be sitting on someone's game shelf

Hn, this should probably have been in the venting thread..

Er...

Atari is just a name now, owned by Infogrames. They slap it on random games now and then. Seems they are using it more and more, though.

Whoever the hell owns it then...

It's still a shite game

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Er...

Atari is just a name now, owned by Infogrames. They slap it on random games now and then. Seems they are using it more and more, though.

Infogrames goes by Atari in the US now for the purpose of brand recognition, because most gamers know what Atari is, but Infogrames is just a weird French game company.

However, seeing as how Coaan's initial post had nothing to do with that at all, I fail to see why you bothered posting this information in the first place.

Coaan: The game itself does have flaws, however, Atari/Infogrames is just the publisher, they did not develop the game (though the more I learn about their process of supporting their development houses, the more I dislike them, to be honest). As for the plot, well, that's not the fault of the developer or the publisher, that's entire due to the fact that the game is based off of one of the original Dungeons and Dragons modules, pretty much word for word from what I understand.

If you have broadband, however, there is little reason you should be complaining. In addition to the demo, a full (timelocked) version is available for download at no cost. You could have downloaded it, played it, decided it was not worth your time, and moved on.

As for features you saw in other games and did not find in TOEE, well, that's just too bad. Unless they promised multiplayer (and such things are usually on the box when you go to pick it up at the game shop) and superficial party customization (I'm sorry, but images and voice sets are superficial things in these games), you had no reason to expect them in the first place, and you have no real reason to be complaining about it.

Which doesn't apply to me seeing as I don't possess broadband at this time. the one saving grace is that it can be returned to the store and they will take it back no quibble.

The game...well..Is not so terrible by todays standards to be sure...we've all come to live with buggy software and adapt...but most of us remember when games were Unbuggy..and quite frankly, dev houses have no excuse for releasing a half baked, sorry excuse for a game which didn't look to have been touched by a quality assurance team...ever

Those other points, true. they are superficial but is it not a step backwards to not include those features that forerunners before have included and been extremely successful on?

ToEE has its moments, but its no Arcanum.

Coaan wrote:Which doesn't apply to me seeing as I don't possess broadband at this time. the one saving grace is that it can be returned to the store and they will take it back no quibble.

There are still other options available to you, and I'm not sure where you got the idea from the reviews that the game was bug-free. The reviews I've seen of it certainly say otherwise.

The game...well..Is not so terrible by todays standards to be sure...we've all come to live with buggy software and adapt...but most of us remember when games were Unbuggy..and quite frankly, dev houses have no excuse for releasing a half baked, sorry excuse for a game which didn't look to have been touched by a quality assurance team...ever

Actually, yes, they do have an excuse, this time usually with the publisher, since quite often they are the ones that fund QA and such. They also tend to control release dates and can force a game out before it is "ready" as it were.

As for games being "unbuggy", well there's a reason for that (and not even all games were without bugs back in the early 80's). It's because the games were nowhere near as complex as they are now. The more longer and complex a game is, the more QA it's going to need. It's a rather complex process, and it can be hindered by any number of things. Perhaps Atari felt they wanted a return on their investment now, rather than waiting another year (and having to pay the salaries of everyone at the Dev House, QA, etc.) for everything to get ironed out when patches made by a much smaller team would fix the problems anyway. That way, the bulk of the team can be reassigned to a new project and less time is "wasted". It also could have been that they wanted to get the jump on the PC release of KOTOR, much like Revolutions wanted to get the jump on Return of the King. There's a lot of possible reasons, but it's not likely that you'll hear them since the publisher wouldn't take kindly to its employees badmouthing it to the public.

Those other points, true. they are superficial but is it not a step backwards to not include those features that forerunners before have included and been extremely successful on?

Customization of characters in Baldur's Gate is, for the most part, limited to the main character. It also did not make or break the game, but was rather a nice extra. If I were programming a game and had to choose between putting in substantive features of nice extras, I'd go for the substantive features and worry about the extras later, if at all. In any event, custom portraits are possible in TOEE, the thread that tells you how to do it is stickied at the top of the TOEE General Discussion Forum at the Atari Boards.

There are still other options available to you, and I'm not sure where you got the idea from the reviews that the game was bug-free. The reviews I've seen of it certainly say otherwise.

I didn't say that it was bug-free...just that it's expected that the game in it's raw state at least be playable off the shelf. After all, you are paying full price for these games..is it too much to ask that it run without needing a patching first?

The reviews I've seen...and word of mouth placed the game to be 'good' or at least on a higher par than neverwinter night's single player...so the reviews I had were not negative...suspect if I push on with the game, it will improve.

snip

Point taken...from the point of the publishing companies, their continued livelihood rests on these games...rushing them to gain a profit is in their best interests sometimes, even if it is not in the gamers.

Customization of characters in Baldur's Gate is, for the most part, limited to the main character. It also did not make or break the game, but was rather a nice extra. If I were programming a game and had to choose between putting in substantive features of nice extras, I'd go for the substantive features and worry about the extras later, if at all. In any event, custom portraits are possible in TOEE, the thread that tells you how to do it is stickied at the top of the TOEE General Discussion Forum at the Atari Boards.

It can be a pleasant to have those extras though, especially when you have a good product. When you have a mediocre product, those extras can make the game...if only to make the game seem more than it is. Tah for the link all the same.

The main problem is because they have given the player such a huge choice in the character/party creation process, the story is going to have to be a little looser in order to accomodate all the possibilities.

Well, at least they took the time to actually have monks use "martial arts", instead of generic punches and kicks. That's a thing that irks me about NWN.

Yes, the bugs are unforgivable. I figured out the scrolling tho: apparently the SLIDER thingy in options is broken, and you have to press the arrow buttons instead.

Hmm I thought it was pretty well known that TOEE is really buggy. The
save games don't work with the patch. KOTR and Silent Storm are much
better. If you want a RPG or good tactical combat. Gothic 2 is also nice if
have a system that is able to run the game well.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Er...

Atari is just a name now, owned by Infogrames. They slap it on random games now and then. Seems they are using it more and more, though.

I wonder if Atari will ever come out with a new console, there were a few in the 80's the most well known the 2600, which I got for Christmas in 85, I think, then a few others which weren't much better.

Coaan wrote:There is also no multiplayer. Atari apparantly came and announced that it 'saw no need' for either customization or multiplayer...despite the massive market there has been in the past for the likes of this.

I fail to see how it could compete with NWN in the D&D multiplayer market, especially when the multiplayer would most likely be like that in BG2, which isn't that groundbreaking or well used.

Coaan wrote:The game...well..Is not so terrible by todays standards to be sure...we've all come to live with buggy software and adapt...but most of us remember when games were Unbuggy

Games in the past didn't have bugs? I'm not sure where you get that from. Games in the past were just as likely to be buggy as those today, you just don't likely remember them all.

Coaan wrote: The game...well..Is not so terrible by todays standards to be sure...we've all come to live with buggy software and adapt...but most of us remember when games were Unbuggy..

No.

Syndicate for example, had a bug where you can't get past one of the levels, no matter what.

It should've been released later. I installed the patch immediately before playing it. I like it a lot. I'm sorry that your system isn't good enough to run it (mine sometimes hiccups) but I've only had two CTDs and the game has the most faithful to P&P combat system I've ever seen. Baldur's Gate has absoltely *nothing* on TOEE in terms of tactical combat depth. It's a ton of fun, and I'm definitely going to play it through more than once.

Shrykull wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Er...

Atari is just a name now, owned by Infogrames. They slap it on random games now and then. Seems they are using it more and more, though.

I wonder if Atari will ever come out with a new console, there were a few in the 80's the most well known the 2600, which I got for Christmas in 85, I think, then a few others which weren't much better.

Erm, the thing you just quoted stated that "Atari" is not the Atari of the past...

Edge gave TOEE 4/10.

This means it's a sub-average game, and should not be bothered with.

Their main gripe is that the interface is bollocks, and that even if the story weren't linear and badly scripted, that would still kill it off.

Vendetta wrote:Edge gave TOEE 4/10.

This means it's a sub-average game, and should not be bothered with.

Their main gripe is that the interface is bollocks, and that even if the story weren't linear and badly scripted, that would still kill it off.

Then on the other hand, gamesdomain gave it 3.5/5 and said that the interface was easy to use. I've never found fault with one of gamesdomain's reviews, so I tend to agree with them. I'm also always very suspicious of reviews that complain that turn-based combat games have a difficult to use interface. There's an awful lot of people who just haven't played turn based games and automatically think that they are hard to use.

Graeme Dice wrote:

Vendetta wrote:Edge gave TOEE 4/10.

This means it's a sub-average game, and should not be bothered with.

Their main gripe is that the interface is bollocks, and that even if the story weren't linear and badly scripted, that would still kill it off.

Then on the other hand, gamesdomain gave it 3.5/5 and said that the interface was easy to use. I've never found fault with one of gamesdomain's reviews, so I tend to agree with them. I'm also always very suspicious of reviews that complain that turn-based combat games have a difficult to use interface. There's an awful lot of people who just haven't played turn based games and automatically think that they are hard to use.

The interface wasn't difficult to use, there was just alot of it and when your machine starts to struggle with the game being a memory hog, it really makes it difficult to navigate the menus...especially with no hotkeys to use. Regarding the reviewers, that's just their opinion, everyone has one and usually it's different....when a game gets a good score, usually it needs to be taken with a grain of salt

You can create your own hotkeys, I think you press Alt+unused letter while highlighting one of the menu options and it gets assigned. Like I assigned a letter to Cure Light Wounds or Thieving.