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Whew, I spent last week playing Knights of the Old Republic. I hereby reward it with my personal Greatest RPG Ever Created Award.

Seriously, no other game forced me to play until it was 03:30 in the morning, ditching school and thinking about the in-game choices I made.

At first I was surprised at the system of character control and overall mechanics of the game. But i got used to it quickly. D20 can be a pain in the ass when you play a live SWRPG (once we had two guys shooting each other from point-blank range, they made 7 shots before one of them actually hit). It seems to work nicely in the game, as good as any other RPG system. And MUCH better than the one used in Fallout.

A few observations, since I already started an overall review of the game.

*SPOILERS BEGIN HERE, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SPOIL YOUR FUN THEN STOP READING NOW*

- Characters are BRILLIANTLY crafted. Each has their story, their attitude towards the main character...I could go on for hours, how I laughed my ass off from some comments from HK47, how I went towards that "love-affair" with Bastila (actually no game (or film) maker ever considered that relationships that begin with love usually end in grief, rather quickly, but this is a heroic world so I'll let it be). It was a bit clichy at times, but generally I liked it. Carth's story involving Karath was great, and squeezing stories out of Jolee Bindo was nice enough to make me smile.

- Jedi. Yes, the very essence of the game. Someone complained about the lack of possibility to play the game with a non-jedi character (I can agree with that to some degree), but I think in this case it would require total reworking of the story. I like playing a Jedi - the idea of having enourmous power at your disposal with great responsibility - it just adds the element of monumentality to the character and makes him more than just a blaster-toter.

The second thing involves something that always pissed me off in the whole Jedi Knight series. " Forget years of training and commitment! I found a lightsaber in the shack, two weeks and Im a Jedi Master and save the galaxy!". Remember Jedi Academy? Fresh - noforce, and after few months he defeats a dark jedi who is aided by Marka Ragnos. And pigs fly. In Kotor I was at first skeptical about how fast the main character progressed in his training on Dantooine, but the story explained that in a satisfactory way. All in order.

- Locations. It gets a bit clichy here. In almost every (if not every) Starwars game we have Tatooine and some other worlds known from the trilogy. And poor towns of Anchorhead and Mos Eisley probably saw more Jedi having trouble than the Coruscant itself. There were some good additions - Taris was nice, Manaan was absolutely brilliant. And the monumental statues on Korriban? I stood in awe watching them. Yeah, Korriban was in Jedi Academy and the game itself was fun, but I would prefer it had never been released, as it adds just more "Jedi Knight series" clichy stupidity.

- Storyline. I just loved the plot twist, it made my hands shake for next few minutes. Until that point I played a light jedi, but sometimes I stepped away from the light side to accomplish things the way I wanted to. After the plot-twist I went straight up to the top of the lightside meter. Storyline really got me involved at each step of the adventure. And I felt like EVERY conversation, every action I take will have some consequences later on. And I wasn't wrong. Quests - at this point a moment of silence, to honor the people who have broken the damned Baldurs Gate/Diablo (whatever) conspiracy of "go-kill stuff-bring back artifact-go kill stuff again in next 7 levels of dunfeons". Especially the quests that involved some thought and detective abilities (not too many of them tho). There were still quests that involved going into a base (preferably Sith one), killing the entire crew, turning the complex upside down searching for the quest items. But here at least I felt it was the right thing to do to keep me on the track. I left Baldur's Gate in the third mine - I got sick and tired of them, I was keeping forgetting why I am there killing billlions of tons of innocent animals, skeletons, zombies or knights. Same case in Vampire: Masquerade: Redemptiom. Kotor was different in this respect and thats another thing I admire this game for. As for Mandalorians, some could see them as a rip-off from Mechwarrior Clans, they even have mechs - but I know in times that almost everything was already invented its difficult to come up with something new. But why-o-why Mandalorians didn't wore armors like Boba Fett had? It was supposed to date back to Mandalorian Wars, and seing a bunch of "Boba Fett Precedessors" in their new shiny battle armors would add some flavor to the game. Generally, the man who constructed the storyline + quests should be given a fucking medal.

- Saber/sword fights. While I do not believe that the D20 system is the best mean of depicting a saber fight, it worked here. Animations were very well done, although they tended to get repetive, especially in a longer saber fight. This however struck me towards the end of the game, and I can't really complain about it. Much better than in Diablo for instance - point, click, click (repeat until target drops). And other RPG's had just a simple slash (and eventually a power slash triggered by other button, like in V:TM:R).

- Technology. I don't know about this, but for my simple brain the tech level didn't really go up in those 4000 years. Blasters, freighters, fighters, lightsabers, droids...everything just like 4000 years later, but slightly different in appearance. Either the scientific research is not considered a worthy thing in SW, or Lucasarts simply screwed up. Still, this worried me for approximately 5 seconds, then I resumed normal operation and played this great game further on.

Okay, that's enough for today. Its past midnight and I want to re-play the game (I'll even start right now) to see what have I missed.

EmKay wrote:
- Technology. I don't know about this, but for my simple brain the tech level didn't really go up in those 4000 years. Blasters, freighters, fighters, lightsabers, droids...everything just like 4000 years later, but slightly different in appearance. Either the scientific research is not considered a worthy thing in SW, or Lucasarts simply screwed up.

No they didn't, Star Wars is supposed to be suffering from massive technological stagnation, the first blasters for example got built over 25,000 years before.

EmKay wrote:And MUCH better than the one used in Fallout.

Have you lost your mind? You must have been playing a different Fallout than I did. Honestly, I really liked KOTOR, but Star Wars d20 is an abomination. Melee combat (and not just lightsabers) being superior to ranged, the near-total inability to create a character that seems like a real person, the class system, ugh.

In contrast, Fallout's system appropriately makes it a bad idea to bring a knife (or a sword) to a gunfight, allows you to create a variety of VIABLE characters (key word "viable", with d20 you can create lots of different characters but if they're not a Soldier/Guardian focusing in melee they won't be nearly as good), starts you out with a reasonable number of HPs at level 1, etc.

I don't really know what else I can say except that I'm in shock that anyone would consider Star Wars d20 as implemented in KOTOR better than Fallout's SPECIAL system.

*SPOILERS BEGIN HERE, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SPOIL YOUR FUN THEN STOP READING NOW*

EmKay wrote:- Characters are BRILLIANTLY crafted. Each has their story, their attitude towards the main character...

Yeah, each one had their own way of relating to you. It was well done, but at the same time it felt like some of the characters weren't quite as good as others. By that, I mean T3 and even Juhani. There were only a couple of times that I found T3 useful, and one of those times it was because it was mandatory. As a droid companion, I preferred HK, for obvious reasons. One being, he's freakin' hilarious.

I could go on for hours, how I laughed my ass off from some comments from HK47, how I went towards that "love-affair" with Bastila. It was a bit clichy at times, but generally I liked it.

I haven't played through as a male PC, so I don't know how that works. I'm almost finished with my second run through (catching side quests that I missed the first time), and the romance that is built between the PC and Carth is pretty good too, even though Carth can be a mewling annoyance.

Carth's story involving Karath was great, and squeezing stories out of Jolee Bindo was nice enough to make me smile.

Carth has two side quests, but the main one against Saul Karath was pretty good.

Mission's is kind of silly and I wish I had more options on dealing with her brother. Or maybe I missed a [Force persuade] somewhere.

Canderous, Jolee and HK are my favorite NPC's to talk to. Canderous tells some balls to the walls war stories. Jolee is a hoot to talk to only because he's always reminding you that he's old. As I told someone recently, if HK wasn't in the assassin-droid business, he could make it as a comedian.

I've always had a soft spot for Wookiees. It's a credit to the design team that it affects me personally that Zaalbar doesn't want to tell me about himself or his home world (at least initially).

I haven't finished Juhani's side quest yet, but I triggered it so it's only a matter of time.

I'm playing through a second time with nearly the same character so that I could adjust my skills and Force abilities to hopefully have a different outcome with Bastila. Playing through a second time really helped me zero in on all of her misgivings. She was definitely a troubled child.

Storyline. I just loved the plot twist, it made my hands shake for next few minutes. Until that point I played a light jedi, but sometimes I stepped away from the light side to accomplish things the way I wanted to. After the plot-twist I went straight up to the top of the lightside meter. Storyline really got me involved at each step of the adventure. And I felt like EVERY conversation, every action I take will have some consequences later on. And I wasn't wrong.

Oddly enough, that's a similar reaction to what I had the first time. I wanted to be bad from then on out - but for some reason, I just didn't. Oddly enough, part of my plan was to do just that the second time through. I chickened out, again. As I rationalized it: "Hey, I've worked so hard to be light side that I noticed I have the Mastery of Light icon on my character sheet. I'm not going to screw that up!"

Especially the quests that involved some thought and detective abilities (not too many of them tho).

I hate the Whodunnit on Dantooine. With a passion. The only good thing about that quest is all of the participants are right there. The other Whodunnit wasn't so bad. What got on my nerves is all of the math puzzlers they stuck in there.

- Technology. I don't know about this, but for my simple brain the tech level didn't really go up in those 4000 years.

As someone has already mentioned, the base technology for the Star Wars universe has been in place for tens of thousands of years.

The game is fun but a few problems.

1. Persuade is a main character only ability...which in all honesty can blow(because only you can put anything into it...and until you become a Jedi...your persuade sucks). And then when you can massive points...it all but disappears(and by the way for anyone who hasn't beaten by saving Bastilla...it's what you say to her in that 14 part exam that determines it...not your persuade score really)

2. Guns suck. Anyone who has played the game may say...well pistols are nice. Yeah...they are but compared to Melee? Not even close...and sorry rifles and heavy guns are a waste of cash.

There are some minor nits I have of the game...but those two stuck out that they could've improved(that and fix fucking Pazaak). Overall I enjoyed going through it multiple times(though I wish I could shot Carth), but it is not the end all be all of RPGs...but it is enjoyable...and for me the best RPG this year.

Ghost Rider wrote:There are some minor nits I have of the game...but those two stuck out that they could've improved(that and fix fucking Pazaak).

That's the only minigame that I didn't even bother with. I'm not good at Black Jack, and Pazaak is a lot like it.

Well, that fucking ruled. I just finished it, and rushed straight to the thread. I had already seen the plot twist before this thread was posted, but I wanted to be safe. My thoughts:

1. Persuade is a main character only ability...which in all honesty can blow(because only you can put anything into it...and until you become a Jedi...your persuade sucks). And then when you can massive points...it all but disappears(and by the way for anyone who hasn't beaten by saving Bastilla...it's what you say to her in that 14 part exam that determines it...not your persuade score really)

It just doesn't make sense for say- Mission or something to go around persuading people. I noticed that Juhani said Darth Revan was very charismatic. I noticed Persuade is used *a lot* in this game- now that it's time to play the Dark Path, I'm gonna put some points into charisma and persuade. And of course, I'm going to use Force Persuade left, right, and center- screw those poncy Jedi and their poncy "don't use the Force to save 100 credits at the dock" code.

2. Guns suck. Anyone who has played the game may say...well pistols are nice. Yeah...they are but compared to Melee? Not even close...and sorry rifles and heavy guns are a waste of cash.

There's zero point in being a gun-toting character yourself- you know you're going to be a Jedi, why waste precious feat points on useless gun feats when you can go for the important ones like Power Attack and Flurry? What kind of pussy incompetent Jedi uses a blaster anyway? That said, lthroughout the game, with blaster pistols, Carth and even Mission were definitely making a contribution. HK-47 freed us from the Leviathan with a standard blaster rifle, though the enemies had low HP (take into account, though, that the heavier blaster rifles are quite powerful). Canderous and his heavy weapon he starts off with, I can't say- I turned him into a dual-wielding melee fighter in full Mandalorian armor by the end of the game, with the upgradable vibroswords I had collected.

There are some minor nits I have of the game...but those two stuck out that they could've improved(that and fix fucking Pazaak).

I *suck* at every gambling minigame in any RPG *ever* made. Is it broken? I never tried it.

I rule at swoop racing though. Damn I annihilated on Manaan (22:07, anyone beat that?).

Overall I enjoyed going through it multiple times(though I wish I could shot Carth), but it is not the end all be all of RPGs...but it is enjoyable...and for me the best RPG this year.

I agree wholeheartedly, definitely the best RPG of the year. I need to play it through a few more times- I'm behind on my gaming obsessiveness due to late Aussie release dates.

By that, I mean T3 and even Juhani

T3 was just an R2 ripoff for when you needed computer/repair work done. I can't really imagine what kind of subplot they could've figured out for him. BEEP-BOOP-BEEP!

I never finished Juhani's quest- that Twi'lek arsehole showed up on Korriban (went there last) and Juhani whined, but I never saw him again- besides, I had to go to the Star Forge.

Mission's is kind of silly and I wish I had more options on dealing with her brother.

I broke this sidequest. I *think* it was because I opened the door he was supposed to be in at the Sand People camp before the quest was activated- regardless, when I spoke to the chieftain and he said he could go free, I didn't find Griff anywhere in the entire camp. Something to look after when I replay light side again.

Canderous, Jolee and HK are my favorite NPC's to talk to. Canderous tells some balls to the walls war stories. Jolee is a hoot to talk to only because he's always reminding you that he's old. As I told someone recently, if HK wasn't in the assassin-droid business, he could make it as a comedian.

Bioware loves the Jolee voice actor. Can anyone say Sarevok (and the narrator for the original Baldur's Gate)?

Canderous was a riot. I would've liked to see those Basilisk War Droids he talked about. That's another subplot I didn't get to see the end of. We met that guy on Tatooine and killed him, but he didn't have much to say after that.

ddly enough, that's a similar reaction to what I had the first time. I wanted to be bad from then on out - but for some reason, I just didn't. Oddly enough, part of my plan was to do just that the second time through. I chickened out, again. As I rationalized it: "Hey, I've worked so hard to be light side that I noticed I have the Mastery of Light icon on my character sheet. I'm not going to screw that up!"

I'm not chickening out this time- the story really got me going in that when people talked to me, especially Bastila when she turns and Malak as well, I just felt ... cheated. I mean, those Jedi Council fuckers! Turning me into this... mockery of what I was! Dark Side all the way- as evil as possible, I don't give a shit- it'll be damn fun seeing their plans fall apart. Party reaction will be interesting, I'm sure.

Have you lost your mind? You must have been playing a different Fallout than I did. Honestly, I really liked KOTOR, but Star Wars d20 is an abomination. Melee combat (and not just lightsabers) being superior to ranged, the near-total inability to create a character that seems like a real person, the class system, ugh.

You felt your character in Fallout was more 'real' than in KOTOR? How so? I've never given much thought to the concept. Melee weapons need to be toned down in favor of blasters, but balance should be retained to some degree. Nothing sucks worse than a whole host of weapons you'll never use in a million years. Melee weapons are a part of the GFFA, after all- see the Royal Guard (that was part of why I wanted Canderous to go melee)

In contrast, Fallout's system appropriately makes it a bad idea to bring a knife (or a sword) to a gunfight

Must disagree. I brought a super sledge hammer to my gunfights with one character and owned the shit out of people constantly (he was my lovely melee only character).

Fallout's system is of course superior because it's SPECIAL- Star Wars d20 is ok but I'm not a fan of classes- blame the avid Fallout fanatic in me. It's just so much more flexible.

My (minor) complaints:

1. Bashing is just stupid. Nothing was more pathetic than watching Zaalbar standing right next to a goddamn foot locker, blasting away with his bowcaster, and not even fucking hitting it- EVER. DUMB ASS. I swear, in late game it was ok but before that, it was just embarassing to watch (I always got it open though)

2. The force power/ armor restrictions: reek of D&D. I *always* play a heavily armored character in RPGs, (I was in Calo Nord's armor throughout the game- I mean, as soon as I got it) and I don't like having to walk around in Jedi robes to use the cool powers (force wave etc you can still use and oh how useful it was!) I can understand the reasons, but goddamit. Yes, I can put points into dexterity so I can have the same sort of AC, but fucking hell I'm not willing to give up strength for it.

3. HK-47: why the hell can't T3, or Zaalbar fix him? Why the fuck do I have to do it? How fucking stupid. I never unlocked any memories because I had *Zero* repair skill. Most idiotic character decision ever.

4. (VERY minor): Darth Malak's injury: what happened to him? Why the missing lower jaw? Yuck.

Vympel wrote:Well, that fucking ruled. I just finished it, and rushed straight to the thread. I had already seen the plot twist before this thread was posted, but I wanted to be safe. My thoughts:

It just doesn't make sense for say- Mission or something to go around persuading people. I noticed that Juhani said Darth Revan was very charismatic. I noticed Persuade is used *a lot* in this game- now that it's time to play the Dark Path, I'm gonna put some points into charisma and persuade. And of course, I'm going to use Force Persuade left, right, and center- screw those poncy Jedi and their poncy "don't use the Force to save 100 credits at the dock" code.

Persuade just struck me as something they wanted you to have to screw around...and for the most part it was nice, but should've been used more then a few bribes and jabs. But eh, the ability was fun and can help you...especially at the Light End(though you still have to answer about 12 of the questions correctly)

There's zero point in being a gun-toting character yourself- you know you're going to be a Jedi, why waste precious feat points on useless gun feats when you can go for the important ones like Power Attack and Flurry? What kind of pussy incompetent Jedi uses a blaster anyway? That said, lthroughout the game, with blaster pistols, Carth and even Mission were definitely making a contribution. HK-47 freed us from the Leviathan with a standard blaster rifle, though the enemies had low HP (take into account, though, that the heavier blaster rifles are quite powerful). Canderous and his heavy weapon he starts off with, I can't say- I turned him into a dual-wielding melee fighter in full Mandalorian armor by the end of the game, with the upgradable vibroswords I had collected.

Never meant in that you using guns(hell like I said Flurry/Master Speed/Two Handed allowed me to literally crush enemies....too easily but eh). This is more a complaint that others. Carth and HK-47 are specialized in guns, and honestly I used them for when I was forced or novelty...Melee truly ruled this game. And I turned Canderous into the same...though I used him and Zaalbar and never had trouble.

I *suck* at every gambling minigame in any RPG *ever* made. Is it broken? I never tried it.

It cheats at times(literally if it needs a winning card 85% it has it) and their is supposed to be a slight mini-game behind it that you can beat the Champ(who's on Korriban) but when you do...he doesn't give you anything at all...and the game at times crashes(both X-Box and PC) at that point.

I rule at swoop racing though. Damn I annihilated on Manaan (22:07, anyone beat that?).

21:78 was my best...fun minigame.

My (minor) complaints:

1. Bashing is just stupid. Nothing was more pathetic than watching Zaalbar standing right next to a goddamn foot locker, blasting away with his bowcaster, and not even fucking hitting it- EVER. DUMB ASS. I swear, in late game it was ok but before that, it was just embarassing to watch (I always got it open though)

Yes, yes it is.

2. The force power/ armor restrictions: reek of D&D. I *always* play a heavily armored character in RPGs, (I was in Calo Nord's armor throughout the game- I mean, as soon as I got it) and I don't like having to walk around in Jedi robes to use the cool powers (force wave etc you can still use and oh how useful it was!) I can understand the reasons, but goddamit. Yes, I can put points into dexterity so I can have the same sort of AC, but fucking hell I'm not willing to give up strength for it.

What's funnier is Darth Bandon(Malak's apprentice) wears armor yet does powers with it

3. HK-47: why the hell can't T3, or Zaalbar fix him? Why the fuck do I have to do it? How fucking stupid. I never unlocked any memories because I had *Zero* repair skill. Most idiotic character decision ever.

It sucks...and what's worse is to fully repair him you need an 18 Repair skill(decent Intelligence and using either a Scout or Scoundrel to get the points in time)

4. (VERY minor): Darth Malak's injury: what happened to him? Why the missing lower jaw? Yuck.

Possibly the Star Forge chewing on him?

Mechanics in Fallout were stupid. Especially the part where a character lived through a burst from a minigun. Yeah, I know, that's how RPG systems work and if I want realism go play Rainbow Six blah blah...BUT! Its easier to believe that a character survives multiple shots from a blaster than to see a whole boxcar of 7.62mm ammo being shot at someone and after that he is still shooting back. The whole feat and skill systems reminds me of perks in Fallout, only they were 'extra' abilities, and feats are even more important than skills.

About HK47...yeah, it struck me to that I can't use T3 to fix him. And I laughed my ass off when HK47 explained where did that all 'meatbag' stuff came from.

Technology...where it is said that its stagnant? Im curious where did that 25.000 year old blaster tech came from.
I might agree, but then again consider capital ships: Dreadnaughts were almost invincible when the Katan fleet was built, there were also some other types of cruisers that Old Republic used...but then Empire comes up with the ISD, and then with the Executor class SD. Nothing more powerful was constructed before, so there must've been SOME progress.
But then again, Leviathan looked like he was roughly the size of an ISD...I just have my doubts about this.

Vympel wrote:

arthur_tuxedo wrote:Have you lost your mind? You must have been playing a different Fallout than I did. Honestly, I really liked KOTOR, but Star Wars d20 is an abomination. Melee combat (and not just lightsabers) being superior to ranged, the near-total inability to create a character that seems like a real person, the class system, ugh.

You felt your character in Fallout was more 'real' than in KOTOR? How so? I've never given much thought to the concept. Melee weapons need to be toned down in favor of blasters, but balance should be retained to some degree. Nothing sucks worse than a whole host of weapons you'll never use in a million years. Melee weapons are a part of the GFFA, after all- see the Royal Guard (that was part of why I wanted Canderous to go melee)

In KOTOR (in Neverwinter Nights too) I feel totally unable to create a character I really want to play and yet won't get his ass handed to him. In both Fallouts I could (and did) play the game start to finish with wildly different characters, because in Fallout you don't have to fuck your combat skill in the ass in order to have people skills, or science skills, or a little bit of this or a little bit of that, and you could choose whether you wanted to do melee or ranged and they were both vialbe (although like I said before, ranged is appropriatly better). In d20 based games, if you want Charisma you'll have to sacrifice precious Strength points, which is the lifeblood of a viable character since ranged sucks ass.

So I feel like there's no choice in the kind of character I end up with. Either you're a strength heavy brute who can't do anything but bash skulls or you suck at combat. Sure, you can let your companions do the fighting, but where's the happy medium and everything in between? Where's the wide range of viable characters that you would want to play? If I try to make a character that seems like a real person (ie. not a strength heavy brute) with Star Wars d20, then he's not a good enough fighter for a tough as nails attitude to seem genuine to me.

Once you factor in the bizzaro world logic of armor making you harder to hit employed by d20 to burn the bridge on the possibility of anything other than a strength heavy brute being viable in combat, any opportunities I had to get sucked into a character to roleplay goes out the window.

Like pretty much everyone else, I consider KOTOR to be the RPG of the year, probably game of the year, and one of the best RPGs I can remember playing, and if I were able to create a viable character that wasn't a one dimensional cookie cutter joke I would have enjoyed it twice as much.

In contrast, Fallout's system appropriately makes it a bad idea to bring a knife (or a sword) to a gunfight

Must disagree. I brought a super sledge hammer to my gunfights with one character and owned the shit out of people constantly (he was my lovely melee only character).

Well, let me rephrase. Fallout gives you the option of melee or ranged, and you can make either work for you (I've had characters like that too, nothing like the super sledge and mega power glove to beat people into goo) and work well, although ranged can be made to work better.

Vympel wrote:And of course, I'm going to use Force Persuade left, right, and center- screw those poncy Jedi and their poncy "don't use the Force to save 100 credits at the dock" code.

When I arrived on Tattooine, I took Mission with me initially. I used a [Force persuade] on the Czerka dock nazi and got in for free. Mission was giddy. When I bought HK a short time later, I used [Force persuade] again and got a lower price and Mission again was agape at how I could handle people. On a side note, if you bring Mission and Bastila with you, at one point they'll have a chat and provide you with something almost as humorous as HK's meatbag lines. (It worked on Tattooine, I don't know if it'll happen anywhere else.) I just used a [Force persuade] in front of Juhani and she was indignant that I'd use the Force as a toy. I wanted to say "Excuse me, Miss Kitty, but I just saved your ass from a slaver and stopped you from going back to the Dark Side."

The key to getting these side quests activated is talking to the characters, a lot. Until they have nothing else to say. Each time you level, talk to everyone. Then you have to have them in your party and someone will approach you. It's a bit of a pain, but they're worth it.

HK-47 freed us from the Leviathan ith a standard blaster rifle, though the enemies had low HP (take into account, though, that the heavier blaster rifles are quite powerful).

I've used T3 in that role - and it worked. The second time through I used HK. I don't know how the others would work out.

I rule at swoop racing though. Damn I annihilated on Manaan (22:07, anyone beat that?).

I was in the low 22's on Manaan. For some reason, I had to run that track a hundred times.

Canderous was a riot. I would've liked to see those Basilisk War Droids he talked about. That's another subplot I didn't get to see the end of. We met that guy on Tatooine and killed him, but he didn't have much to say after that.

Yeah, after you finish helping them, they kind of clam up.

1. Bashing is just stupid. Nothing was more pathetic than watching Zaalbar standing right next to a goddamn foot locker, blasting away with his bowcaster, and not even fucking hitting it- EVER.

Well, I think it's kind of pathetic that it takes me two swings with a lightsabre to open locked foot-lockers. And especially when I miss.

(I was in Calo Nord's armor throughout the game- I mean, as soon as I got it)

Then I shouldn't tell you about the wicked armor that the Rodian has on the space station above Yavin? (That place is PC only, though.) It's best to go there after you've found the third, fourth and fifth Star Maps. There's a side quest there where you can get a wicked crystal for you lightsabre.

4. (VERY minor): Darth Malak's injury: what happened to him? Why the missing lower jaw? Yuck.

I'd bet it has something to do with his meatbag status.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

EmKay wrote:
- Technology. I don't know about this, but for my simple brain the tech level didn't really go up in those 4000 years. Blasters, freighters, fighters, lightsabers, droids...everything just like 4000 years later, but slightly different in appearance. Either the scientific research is not considered a worthy thing in SW, or Lucasarts simply screwed up.

No they didn't, Star Wars is supposed to be suffering from massive technological stagnation, the first blasters for example got built over 25,000 years before.

Well, from what I've heard, in the StarWars D20 pnp blaster rifles do 3d8 damage or so while in KotOR they only do 1d8... so some development was done

Us humans living on Earth are still better 4000 years ago we had bashing weapons that did 1d6 damage in hand-to-hand combat,
Now we have 7k6 from an Ak47 on ranges grater than 150 meters. And thats just the begginning of our arsenal

Slartibartfast wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

EmKay wrote:
- Technology. I don't know about this, but for my simple brain the tech level didn't really go up in those 4000 years. Blasters, freighters, fighters, lightsabers, droids...everything just like 4000 years later, but slightly different in appearance. Either the scientific research is not considered a worthy thing in SW, or Lucasarts simply screwed up.

No they didn't, Star Wars is supposed to be suffering from massive technological stagnation, the first blasters for example got built over 25,000 years before.

Well, from what I've heard, in the StarWars D20 pnp blaster rifles do 3d8 damage or so while in KotOR they only do 1d8... so some development was done

I think I would've prefered that...at least gain some respect for blaster fire(though when you become a Jedi it's fun to deflect the fire back on them)

CorSec wrote:
Then I shouldn't tell you about the wicked armor that the Rodian has on the space station above Yavin? (That place is PC only, though.) It's best to go there after you've found the third, fourth and fifth Star Maps. There's a side quest there where you can get a wicked crystal for you lightsabre.

???

How do I get the sidequest? My sabre had an Opila and Sapith crystal in it by the end game (8-22 damage base).

The game is easy enough that there really is no point in cheating, unless you're just trying to finish really really fast.

Hell, the hardest part of the whole game for me was beating Tier 3 of swoop racing on Tatooine.

Vympel wrote:How do I get the sidequest? My sabre had an Opila and Sapith crystal in it by the end game (8-22 damage base).

You need to go to the space station after you find the third, fourth and fifth Star Maps. (Find the third one, go to the station. Find the fourth one, go to the station, etc.)

Vympel wrote:I'm so tempted to cheat the shit out of KOTOR

Maybe I will

Have beaten every which way to sunday...I say I deserve a character who can kill whiny bitch bare handed

CorSec wrote:You need to go to the space station after you find the third, fourth and fifth Star Maps. (Find the third one, go to the station. Find the fourth one, go to the station, etc.)

There are five star maps?

(does mental head count)

oh yeah.

EmKay wrote:Us humans living on Earth are still better 4000 years ago we had bashing weapons that did 1d6 damage in hand-to-hand combat,
Now we have 7k6 from an Ak47 on ranges grater than 150 meters. And thats just the begginning of our arsenal

Looks like GURPs weapon stats.

neoolong wrote:The game is easy enough that there really is no point in cheating, unless you're just trying to finish really really fast.

I cheat after I finish a game legit a few times to experiment with avenues/ plot points that normally don't interest me. I've never found any game incredibly hard, and cheating to beat a hard game is just pathetic.

Hell, the hardest part of the whole game for me was beating Tier 3 of swoop racing on Tatooine.

Tatooine? Manaan was much harder than that.

Vympel wrote:

neoolong wrote:Hell, the hardest part of the whole game for me was beating Tier 3 of swoop racing on Tatooine.

Tatooine? Manaan was much harder than that.

What? Manaan was really really easy. Beat all three tiers on my first try each.

Tatooine took me two days just to find a line that might work for tier 3. And another to actually beat it.

Sea Skimmer wrote:No they didn't, Star Wars is supposed to be suffering from massive technological stagnation, the first blasters for example got built over 25,000 years before.

I dunno about suffering or wheter it's really that abnormal, rather the type of advancement we're having now is abnormal.

Cheating in that game, second time around, is the best.

I realized early on that I hated the hell out of the fact that the blasters didn't outright kill anything, and the lightsabres were weak.

So I ramped up the skills on my main character the second time around and left everyone at home (didn't need the sidequests this time).

The crowning glory though is the giveitem cheat code. Go to the swforums at Bioware's site (accessible through Lucasarts site) and there's a sticky there with the entire item list for the PC version.

Equip your boys with the Insta-Kill blaster (one hit = death, so blaster combat looks GREAT - walk into a room, whip out the pistol, one shot to the chest each and the bodies go flying) and trot out the unique sabres and armor (one slash, things die). Granted it's one sided, but being a fucking unstoppable juggernaught is FUN.