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Does anybody know about a "game controller" driver that doesn't use a game controller at all? Like some kind of keyboard->gamepad emulation, so that I can play this friggin X-Wing Alliance game...

Stupid Totally Games, removing the great mouse control, one of the few good things about the x-wing series of games.

Can I laugh at you for wanting to use a mouse in a flight sim game?

Super-Gagme wrote:Can I laugh at you for wanting to use a mouse in a flight sim game?

Some people just can't use a joystick, even if they want to. Personally, I haven't played a flight sim in months, simply because my computer has absolutly no game ports. At all.

Joysticks tend to come in USB flavors these days, and as cheap as $20-$40 for decent sticks.

If you've got a USB port in your computer, even if it's full, you can just buy a USB hub to get more USB ports.

Temjin, if your computer was constructed any time in the last five or six years, chances are it has a USB port on it somewhere. Mac or PC.

I guess I can do that. I'm going to miss my old one though. I already tried a USB adapter, and it just wouldn't work.

Super-Gagme wrote:Can I laugh at you for wanting to use a mouse in a flight sim game?

That would only make you look like an ignorant ass, but go ahead.

Slartibartfast wrote:

Super-Gagme wrote:Can I laugh at you for wanting to use a mouse in a flight sim game?

That would only make you look like an ignorant ass, but go ahead.

It would also be totally justified.

PC joystics were designed for flight sims, to the extent that they suck for anythng else. You owe it to your flight sims to use even a reasonable one, available cheap from all bad stockists...

You can get a Saitek USB Gold, an excellent stick, for about $30 if I remember right.

You can get a used one for cheaper really, but the Cyborg Gold has been replaced with the Cyborg Evo, which is priced at $40 at last check. Well worth the $40 if you ask me, it's a hell of a functional stick, and if you feel so inclined, you can get two and set one up for each hand...not that it's terribly useful for most games, but for some..it can be interesting

Vendetta wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote:

Super-Gagme wrote:Can I laugh at you for wanting to use a mouse in a flight sim game?

That would only make you look like an ignorant ass, but go ahead.

It would also be totally justified.

PC joystics were designed for flight sims, to the extent that they suck for anythng else. You owe it to your flight sims to use even a reasonable one, available cheap from all bad stockists...

Have you ever played TIE Fighter? It is not a flight simulator, it's a 3D space shooter. Have you played the DOS version? Do you know how well the mouse interface worked? If you don't, kindly shut up.

I played the original TIE Fighter with a mouse for years, but that and Wing Commander 2 are special. Normal space sims are way better with a joystick.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I played the original TIE Fighter with a mouse for years, but that and Wing Commander 2 are special. Normal space sims are way better with a joystick.

What do you mean "normal" space sims? When I think "space shooter" it's hard to think about anything other than X-Wing, Wing Commander or Descent Freespace. What other space sims are there that are better with a joystick? Apollo 18? Microsoft Space Simulator? Shuttle? Maybe I've missed on a couple dozen or so space sims that are more popular than the first three?

When I play with a joystick, I get the same accuracy as my friends on multiplayer (maybe a bit more) or during the main SP missions. When I use a mouse, I completely sweep the floor with them.

I think I'll have to disagree with the "normal" space sims. There are no "normal" space sims other than those that simulate the construction of the Hubble telescope.

So yeah, both posts about the absolute necessity of joysticks on space shooters (gagme and wossname, vendetta) are based on ignorance, no two ways about it. Worse even, because I'm talking specifically about the game you cite as being great with a mouse.

As a side note, don't you guys think I haven't noticed the huge thread hijack about buying an "inexpensive" 40 dollar (!!!) joystick instead. That has nothing to do with the original post.

Don't stick words in my mouth. I said specifically the original TIE Fighter and Wing Commander 2 being mouse friendly, not X-Wing games after TIE Fighter, not any post WC3 Wing Commanders, and certainly not either Freespace game. How you expect to take on the Shivans using a mouse is a mystery to me. Are you planning on playing on "very easy"?

Super-Gagme wrote:Can I laugh at you for wanting to use a mouse in a flight sim game?

I already have, in the Battle of Endor thread.

Slartibartfast wrote:As a side note, don't you guys think I haven't noticed the huge thread hijack about buying an "inexpensive" 40 dollar (!!!) joystick instead. That has nothing to do with the original post.

I was responding to Temjin's post, in which he brings up that joysticks require game port (they haven't since the shift to USB controllers). There is no board rule saying that I have to specifically respond to you if I do not feel so inclined.

Also, $40 is inexpensive for a joystick. They tend to run from $60-$120 dollars. If this were a thread about full computer systems, would you scoff at my calling a $1,000 PC "inexpensive" when an high-end system could cost you over $2,000?

As for using a mouse in space sims, sure, it can be done. If you really feel so inclined, you might be able to find a .ini file somewhere that will let you map the joystick controls to your mouse. For most space sims, however, the game is much easier if you do have a joystick. If you want a game that has excellent mouse support, I would suggest you consider Freelancer.

Note that I am not of the opinion that your are an idiot or somesuch for wanting to use a mouse in a space sim. I understand why you want to, and I do not begrudge you that. I doubt Arthur does either, he was just pointing out that most space sims are easier to play with a joystick, which is similar to saying that driving games are easier to play with a wheel and pedals, and FPS games are easier to control with mouse and keyboard.

X-Wing games, along with a vast majority of space sims, have the gameplay feel of a toned-down WW2 flight sim, minus such things as gravity and stalling, but usually with some other neat little gameplay effects thrown in. Since one usually uses a joystick for a WW2 flight sim, it makes sense to use the same type of controller for a game with a similar gameplay feel, does it not?

But I digress...you have two solutions now: find an .ini file and remap the controls to your mouse (difficult, but possible), or buy a joystick. $40 is what the EVO costs, but if you don't care about a huge degree of functionality, you can get a budget joystick for $25 or $15. (the ST290 and ST90, respectively). I would, of course, suggest the EVO, as it's functionality will be a godsend for many games, if space and flight sims are your thing, but ultimately the choice is yours.

This very reason of joystick dependancy is why space sims are becoming more and more marginalized (along with most sim games, actually) and why we're not seeing many of them on the market these days. Casual gamers don't want to spend the money on the joystick just to play one or two games, and they represent the majority of the market. Sim gamers are in a small, small minority, unfortunately. This is why we'll never likely see Freespace 3, or another X-Wing game, or I-War 3...*sighs*

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Don't stick words in my mouth. I said specifically the original TIE Fighter and Wing Commander 2 being mouse friendly, not X-Wing games after TIE Fighter, not any post WC3 Wing Commanders, and certainly not either Freespace game. How you expect to take on the Shivans using a mouse is a mystery to me. Are you planning on playing on "very easy"?

Duh, X-Wing games after TIE fighter DON'T SUPPORT mouse control. I was referring to WC1-2 & Privateer (the DOS ones). And I've beaten Freespace 1 and 2 on the hardest level with a joystick once and a mouse once or twice (after I got my new comp that didn't have a game port). So it's up to you to provide the famous list of "normal" space shooters that 1) support mouse control and 2) aren't the original X-Wing or TIE Fighter or Wing Commander 1-2 or Privateer, or even Freespace, as I've already told you it's damn easy with a mouse.

PS: I also played the demo for WC 3 and 4, with a mouse, and while it took me one or two couple failures to get used to them, I was killing ships by the dozen after the third or fourth try.

See, it's smartass remarks like "how do yuo expect to win TEH GAME!!11" that annoy the hell out of me. I ALREADY HAVE. AND WITH A BETTER SCORE.

And Hotfoot: it might occur to you that the entire purpose of this thread is that I don't intend to get a joystick for the time being? I don't have money for ANY joystick, in fact I don't have money for ANYTHING at all. No, there's no INI file to remap joysticks, since the game simply won't run if you don't have a joystick plugged in.

And yes, there's a general board rule (maybe it's a guideline?) that says that posts should be on-topic. And while you might have not started the whole "buy a joystick you dumbass", it's still a mass derailing of the whole thing. There amount of on-topic replies is incredibly low compared to the off-topic replies, in fact I think there hasn't been a single on-topic post.

Besides, never mind, I just programmed my own damn mouse-to-joystick driver, took me the whole day but there you go.

Maybe some kind mod would like to lock this topic? There hasn't been a single on-topic post. Thanks.

With a higher score? You sure about that, son?

Rogue 9 wrote:With a higher score? You sure about that, son?

Why don't just shut the fuck up? Are you helping at all? It's not like you're adding a little spam to a big thread, the whole thread is composed of spam and stupid little sniping remarks.

How old are you?

Well, i was just about to gracefully conceed, but after that last post, fuck you. I contributed what I considered relevant and helpful input, and if you don't like it fine, but don't come at me with a bunch of crap about how I'm violating board policy for not having an answer to the specific question you asked, but making a related suggestion instead.

My, the oh-so-original "I was about to concede but now I won't just to spite you". Fuck you too, Mr. Samwise.

Slartibartfast wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:With a higher score? You sure about that, son?

Why don't just shut the fuck up? Are you helping at all? It's not like you're adding a little spam to a big thread, the whole thread is composed of spam and stupid little sniping remarks.

How old are you?

I'm 19 and seriously doubt that your finishing score in TIE Fighter was really all that higher than everybody else's.

Rogue 9 wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:With a higher score? You sure about that, son?

Why don't just shut the fuck up? Are you helping at all? It's not like you're adding a little spam to a big thread, the whole thread is composed of spam and stupid little sniping remarks.

How old are you?

I'm 19 and seriously doubt that your finishing score in TIE Fighter was really all that higher than everybody else's.

Excuse me? I said I beat them with a better score than when I used the joystick. Are you really that daft, sonny boy?

Slartibartfast wrote:And Hotfoot: it might occur to you that the entire purpose of this thread is that I don't intend to get a joystick for the time being? I don't have money for ANY joystick, in fact I don't have money for ANYTHING at all. No, there's no INI file to remap joysticks, since the game simply won't run if you don't have a joystick plugged in.

Had you read my pervious post perhaps in some closer detail, you would see that I already know why you want to play the game with a mouse. However, if the game won't run without a joystick plugged in, you're pretty much shit out of luck. If there is no remappable .ini file, then the only choice left, from my perspective, would be to either give up and return the game to the closet, or just buy a joystick. That's not off topic, it's just not the answer you want to hear. There is a significant difference between the two, and you're just going to have to accept that, I'm afraid. Lashing out only makes you a bigger target and alienates you against those who would otherwise sympathize with you.

Besides, never mind, I just programmed my own damn mouse-to-joystick driver, took me the whole day but there you go.

Very nice. That is an option I had not considered, really. Hopefully you will consider passing it on to an XWA mod site so that others might benefit from your endevours.

Finally, the simple fact is that space sims tend to be best controlled with a joystick. Saying you do better with a mouse than others do with a joystick is similar to hearing X-Box Halo players brag about their leet skills to a group of PC FPS vets. It just doesn't fly. You may be able to play the game, have fun doing so, and even achieve a fair amount of competance using a mouse, but a similarly skilled player with a joystick has a simple advantage in ease and precision of control.

Slartibartfast wrote:Besides, never mind, I just programmed my own damn mouse-to-joystick driver, took me the whole day but there you go.

I'd like to know just how the hell you did that. K3wlx0r.

Spammers: Shut The Fuck Up.