Mouse won't work...

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-15 05:29pm

My old computer has gone over Mount Everest with little problem, but it seems i'm stumped by a molehill.

Both Red Hat Linux and Windows 98 seem to co-exist quite well, except my mouse isn't working in either.

It is a USB infrared mouse - Microsoft-brand, 2 buttons plus a middle wheel/button. Windows alone occasionally had problems with it, but not for the past several months.

It may have had to do with me specifying the mouse as a 'generic USB 3-button' mouse in RedHat install. However, on the first RedHat boot, it worked perfectly. Yet it didn't work after i booted Windows, and when i booted Linux again, it didn't work again, leaving me there trying to figure out what was the key combination to open the Gnome' 'Start' button equivalent to log out.

What gives?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2004-06-15 05:32pm

Uhm, get a PS/2 mouse?

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-15 05:36pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Uhm, get a PS/2 mouse?

Reason why i got a USB mouse in the first place was that the PS/2 mice had the same problem about a year ago... didn't work. I think the computer's bus mouse port was broken or something. Anyway, the USB intellimouse was having problems with the then-brand-new new computer, so the mice were switched. The PS/2 mouse has zero problems with the new computer, and the USB mouse worked most of the time until recently.

I even tried unplugging from 1 USB port and plugging it back into another, and rebooted. Didn't work in either Windows or Linux.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-15 09:51pm

A bit of diagnostic work with Windows 98 (via arrow keys) determined that the HID-complaint mouse is fine. The problem is with the USB interface - i believe the part is SiS 7001.

Now, I'm thinking my installation of Linux may have to do with this, but am not sure. Will attempt to figure out how to use command keys in X-windows to get to either a hardware diagnostic tool or a shell from which diagnostic tools can be accessed by keyboard.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-06-15 10:07pm

Ctrl+Alt+F1 to F7 to get to Linux console.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-15 10:24pm

Pu-239 wrote:Ctrl+Alt+F1 to F7 to get to Linux console.

I just hit ctrl-alt-escape, then used arrow keys to get to a terminal, or to one of GNOME's tools.

I think I narrowed it down: When Linux boots, it says "Initializing USB controller" then a bunch of gobbledygook, then finally "FAILED".

Therefore, something is probably amok with the USB controller. Which wasn't before Linux was installed. Strangely, Windows recognized the same USB controller, and before Linux was installed, Windows worked fine with it. Now neither co-operate.

Have to track down 'SiS 7001' using Google. look for any problems related to Linux or Windows with it.

Could it be something with the drivers? doubtful, at least on the Windows end.

It could be evil work amiss, or bad karma or something. Before repartitioning my hard disk, i prayed for God that the data would not be lost in the Windows partition (even promising not to eat any desserts today - a promise i have so far kept and will keep until after midnight). It seems my prayers were answered. I guess any evil force decided to piss on my victory parade some other way - ergo, the mouse. Or comeuppance; after all, i don't pray near enough and i normally eat way too mny desserts.

Or there is some hardware problem. Probably that. Yeah. Superstition ill becomes me. Although being more religious might be a good idea - as my Uncle George said, "you never know, they could be right." I'd rather look silly than spend an afterlife roasting away, even on an off chance. Still, a demon inhabiting my computer sounds rather ridiculous. And i did kinda get carried away.

Just a bit of note - the mouse turns on (the infrared light, the 'trackball' i guess, goes on) when I use Windows, but does not work. In Linux, the mouse neglects to turn on its light. Ironically, it's a Microsoft mouse.

Both work perfectly fine in terms of mouse-freeness - although most software save command-line stuff really needs a mouse, and moving around the desktop with arrow keys gets real old real fast.

just another note - the mouse worked perfectly during the Red Hat installation, and the first boot afterwards. It was only when i booted windows afterward both showed problems.

If i can't get help here, maybe i'll post to one of the comp.* groups, either a USB or Mouse group or a comp.os.linux.* group. Because i suspect it has to do with one OS or another, probably Linux. Perhaps a problem with Red Hat 8's SiS 7001 driver? or is it a hardware problem?

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-16 09:33am

It's either Linux or GRUB that's screwing things up.

Why? When i switch USB drivers in Windows (from SiS 7001 to Generic USB controller or vice versa), the mouse works.

But when i reboot.... mouse does not work in Windows.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2004-06-16 09:57am

Sounds like a faulty USB port.

Also Windows 98 USB support sucks ass, With Windows 98SE being slightly better. Windows 2k and onward have much more stable and workable USB support.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-16 10:05am

ggs wrote:Sounds like a faulty USB port.

Also Windows 98 USB support sucks ass, With Windows 98SE being slightly better. Windows 2k and onward have much more stable and workable USB support.

Worked fine before i installed Linux. Why would it malfunction at that stage? Either Bill Gates is doing something fishy, or Linux and/or the GRUB loader are screwing things over.

Additional note:

when i boot linux, i get a "insmod usb-ohci failed" message.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-06-16 12:25pm

That means the USB drivers for Linux are not loading. Anyway, it's unlikely the OS can do anything persistent with the hardware. Are you rebooting or cold booting?

You also might want to check your bios settings.

If you can't get anything to work, try to find an old serial mouse.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-16 03:14pm

Pu-239 wrote:That means the USB drivers for Linux are not loading. Anyway, it's unlikely the OS can do anything persistent with the hardware. Are you rebooting or cold booting?

You also might want to check your bios settings.

If you can't get anything to work, try to find an old serial mouse.

Rebooting. I will try to cold-boot for Linux next time. And then cold-boot Windows.

And the only thing i changed in the BIOS was re-arranging the boot order so I could boot from the Linux CD-ROM. Windows worked fine after that. The only side effect is that it takes longer to boot.

A couple of months ago, a guy I know upgraded the CPU and memory of the machine (400 mhz to 500 mhz K6-2 and 56 to 184 megabytes). No change to Windows. Mouse worked fine. And i assume any BIOS problems would've affected Windows long before the Linux install.

I'll try the serial mouse thing if all else fails, but I'm skeptical. The serial ports are in the same 'rack' as the bus mouse port - and the bus mouse port is bust. Whether the Serial ports work, I don't know.

Could it be a driver issue in Linux? Maybe an updated USB driver?

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-17 09:52am

It's very much the driver... but i don't think i need to update.

why? I booted Linux from the Linux floppy i made during installation... and select 'boot from /hda3' (my Linux partition) and there are no USB issues, and the mouse works.

Therefore, it is very much a driver problem, and floppy-booting seems to bypass it. What HD files does floppy-booting bypass?

Oh yeah, the error seems to have something to do with this file:
"/lib/modules/2.4.18-14/kernel/drivers/usb/usb-ohci.o"

So it is almost certainly a driver issue. But why would this screw Windows over?

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-06-17 11:37am

admiral_danielsben wrote:It's very much the driver... but i don't think i need to update.

why? I booted Linux from the Linux floppy i made during installation... and select 'boot from /hda3' (my Linux partition) and there are no USB issues, and the mouse works.

Therefore, it is very much a driver problem, and floppy-booting seems to bypass it. What HD files does floppy-booting bypass?

Oh yeah, the error seems to have something to do with this file:
"/lib/modules/2.4.18-14/kernel/drivers/usb/usb-ohci.o"

So it is almost certainly a driver issue. But why would this screw Windows over?

It shouldn't, unless you are rebooting instead of cold booting.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-06-17 01:26pm

Pu-239 wrote:
admiral_danielsben wrote:It's very much the driver... but i don't think i need to update.

why? I booted Linux from the Linux floppy i made during installation... and select 'boot from /hda3' (my Linux partition) and there are no USB issues, and the mouse works.

Therefore, it is very much a driver problem, and floppy-booting seems to bypass it. What HD files does floppy-booting bypass?

Oh yeah, the error seems to have something to do with this file:
"/lib/modules/2.4.18-14/kernel/drivers/usb/usb-ohci.o"

So it is almost certainly a driver issue. But why would this screw Windows over?
It shouldn't, unless you are rebooting instead of cold booting.

Maybe that's it. I haven't cold-booted Windows yet. Since i booted from floppy and the mouse worked with Linux, i have kept using Linux and haven't re-booted the old computer.

I'll try to cold-boot Windows next. If it works, then the problem is that particular Linux driver.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-06-18 01:34pm

It will probably work if you cold-boot Windows. Does your PC have a reset button on it?

As for Linux, Mandrake 10.0 uses a universal PS2/USB mouse driver and I've found it to be very reliable even with oddball hardware, whereas older versions were best used with a PS/2 mouse. I don't know enough about recent Redhat versions to know which one you should use, but it's pretty obviously a USB driver problem.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-07-15 03:13pm

Darth Wong wrote:It will probably work if you cold-boot Windows. Does your PC have a reset button on it?

As for Linux, Mandrake 10.0 uses a universal PS2/USB mouse driver and I've found it to be very reliable even with oddball hardware, whereas older versions were best used with a PS/2 mouse. I don't know enough about recent Redhat versions to know which one you should use, but it's pretty obviously a USB driver problem.

Mild thread necromancy, the thing still doesn't work. No, my PC does not have a reset button on it. The only thing I discovered was that booting Red Hat from a system floppy will make the system work (so either the floppy has a proper USB driver on it or it has to do with some sort of conflict). So far, I've just been using Linux on the machine. I wonder if it's a mutual USB driver problem or maybe has something to do with GRUB.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2004-07-16 02:06am

Are you sure it isn't the cable itself? You could have a kink in the cable, which could have shorted or made an open circuit in the cable itself which might explain your problem. You said it didn't work at all in another computer, right?

Pop open the mouse (if you don't mind potentially voiding whatever warranty you might have left), and use an ohm meter to check each wire in the cable by touching the end soldered to the PCB, and touching the corrosponding pin on the connector.

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-07-16 08:14am

Vertigo1 wrote:Are you sure it isn't the cable itself? You could have a kink in the cable, which could have shorted or made an open circuit in the cable itself which might explain your problem. You said it didn't work at all in another computer, right?

Pop open the mouse (if you don't mind potentially voiding whatever warranty you might have left), and use an ohm meter to check each wire in the cable by touching the end soldered to the PCB, and touching the corrosponding pin on the connector.

It would be senseless. I'm talking about only one computer, and the mouse works perfectly IF I BOOT LINUX FROM A BOOT DISK. If I boot windows or linux from HD, it doesn't work. And in Windows, I can switch USB drivers and the mouse works... until I boot (even cold boot) again.

It is probably either a driver issue or a GRUB issue.

Oh yeah, and it's a Microsoft infrared mouse. I can't open it w/o damaging it permanently. I wonder if the fact that it's a 'Microsoft' mouse has anything to do with the problems?

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-07-25 12:08pm

Situation update: I have re-activated BootIt, and Windows works perfectly. Unfortunately, Linux still won't work with the mouse. I suspect the problem is with Linux.

I'd like to solve this quick, because my 30-day trial of BootIt is expired and I don't want to fork over $40 or continue to be a lawbreaker (and get a 'discontinue or register' message every damn time).

Oddly enough, If i boot Linux with BootIt, i get to the GRUB prompt after BootIt. I wonder if re-installing Linux will get rid of BootIt, once the problem is identified and solved (and can be solved again for Linux).

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-07-25 12:10pm

Pu-239 wrote:
admiral_danielsben wrote:It's very much the driver... but i don't think i need to update.

why? I booted Linux from the Linux floppy i made during installation... and select 'boot from /hda3' (my Linux partition) and there are no USB issues, and the mouse works.

Therefore, it is very much a driver problem, and floppy-booting seems to bypass it. What HD files does floppy-booting bypass?

Oh yeah, the error seems to have something to do with this file:
"/lib/modules/2.4.18-14/kernel/drivers/usb/usb-ohci.o"

So it is almost certainly a driver issue. But why would this screw Windows over?
It shouldn't, unless you are rebooting instead of cold booting.

I think i have an explanation now: Even Cold Booting, i go through Linux to get to Windows (via GRUB). Now with BootIt, Windows will boot and the mouse works, since BootIt resides on the Windows partition and not the Linux partition. So it's clearly a Linux problem.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-07-25 03:06pm

You can use the Windows boot loader to load Linux, but it's a bit more complicated. Also, GRUB should'nt be doing anything with the mouse.

Maybe you can get a serial mouse on e-bay?

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-07-25 05:29pm

Pu-239 wrote:You can use the Windows boot loader to load Linux, but it's a bit more complicated. Also, GRUB should'nt be doing anything with the mouse.

Maybe you can get a serial mouse on e-bay?

i think the serial and bus ports are both fucked up (the bus port certainly, and i think the serial port).

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2004-07-26 02:40am

Pu-239 wrote:You can use the Windows boot loader to load Linux, but it's a bit more complicated. Also, GRUB should'nt be doing anything with the mouse.

Maybe you can get a serial mouse on e-bay?

I knew there was a reason why I kept this link in my bookmarks.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/Linux+NT ... .html#toc3

admiral_danielsben · Post by **admiral_danielsben** » 2004-07-26 09:53am

Vertigo1 wrote:
Pu-239 wrote:You can use the Windows boot loader to load Linux, but it's a bit more complicated. Also, GRUB should'nt be doing anything with the mouse.

Maybe you can get a serial mouse on e-bay?
I knew there was a reason why I kept this link in my bookmarks.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/Linux+NT ... .html#toc3

Yeah, but i have Windows 98, not NT.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-07-26 03:09pm

Why are you running 98 anyway... it's a POS?

Anyway, if the problem is GRUB, have you tried LILO?