Reality and games. The lowdown.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-03 10:35pm

How do you recomend arguing against people who equate First Person shooter GAMES to real life. I am arguing with someone over an issue of game play fairness.

1. I basically said it is silly to have completely unbalanced classes in a first person shooter. I can understand the idea of Rock paper scissors, but in aliens vs predator,, most severs only allow 2 classes. Human and Pred. THis completely throws all balance out of the window since aliens are meant to counter the cloak/camping ability of preds. Without them, all the preds do is stand completely still in the middle of nowhere and snipe, which is virtually undetectable, ever. I do this all the time, and I rack up hundreds of kills.

He says it isn't unfair, because in real life snipers do the same thing.

This seems idiotic, since its a very bad analogy. IN real life, snipers don't have magical plasma weapons, one shot anywhere kill weapons (real snipres have to use skillful aiming, not toenail and figertip shots). Also, they use camo, not complete invisibility anywhere. YOu can be standing right in front of a pred in the game and not know where he is. Most humans have a score of 5 because of this.

It really seems to ruin the game in my opinion, since so many people run away, and the humans rarely, if ever win against such server settings/tatics.

Also with EMP's he said they would stun people and equipment in real life, damaging them....

I don't know...EMP's are meant to attack and disable equipment, but in real life, doesn't military hardware have saftey precautions? Aren't they harded against it? On top of that...EMP in teh game ONLY stuns aliens and preds...but not humans...I don't even know if it would do that in real life. I doubt it, but you are more qualified to answer that.

I just cant stand people who use the "real life" analogy when trying to defend game imbalance.

Mind you, this thread I was in was specifically created to dertermine game imbalance issues/problems/ desired changes.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-08-03 11:15pm

EMP hardening in the field can only accomplish so much.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-08-03 11:31pm

Well, if it's to be like real life, then just have the marine fire off all the ammo for a weapon. That leaves him with a club.

And according to the literature, predators have to face humans on an equal footing. Meaning he has to resort to a melee weapon as well.

That and for a species concerned with the honor of the hunt, he is downright unsportsmanlike.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-04 01:19am

Thats what I think. They spout off the honor spiel in the game so much, but then they run around sniping people while being invisible...

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-08-04 01:57am

Challenge his honor and call him a coward for using the cloak.

If he really wants to go all reality, then he has to accept.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-04 06:13am

Challenge his honor and call him a coward for using the cloak.

If he really wants to go all reality, then he has to accept. Very Happy

OH yea. I got no problem with people using cloak. I use it all the time. I just hate the people who run around thinking they are godly at the game because they can rack up hundreds of kills while being completely undetectable.

It wouldn't have been bad, but I was called stupid for voicing an opinion on what MIGHT make the game better in a thread that asked you to do that. That was irritating. Like his way is the "best" way or something.

Wouldn't you want a more fun, more balanced game?

I just had a philosophy which would get rid of spam/and camping.
MOst peopel camp because some weapons in the game are unbelievably abused/powerful. I said they should tone down mines and snipers, therefore making the game more alluring to melee. It's nearly impossible to use pred melee against exposives and one shot kill snipers. If they were nerfed, more people would stop camping, since they wouldn't have to worry about dying the instant they move, (which is the case now).

I thought it was a reasonable opinion.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2004-08-04 12:52pm

Battlefield 1942 can be the worst for that. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a particularly great player, but I get by. Now I was playing the Desert Combat mod, and our main base was being camped with a combo of air strikes, rocket strikes and snipers. This was judged from the side doing this as to be fair play, and they called us 'hopeless Lamers'.

However, when I turned the tables and sniped at their base, taking out their AAA gunners and wounding or killing infantry, I was suddenly a 'camping, baseraping SOB'.

Yet, I remained in sight of the base that someone with enough skill could get me if they so wished.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-05 02:54am

I loath camping. If everyone camps, then no one will do anything and no one wins. I can understand taking cover, but staying in one area completely hidden kinda defeats the "fun" aspect of the game. It's like playing "find the pixel"

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2004-08-05 09:23am

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:I loath camping. If everyone camps, then no one will do anything and no one wins. I can understand taking cover, but staying in one area completely hidden kinda defeats the "fun" aspect of the game. It's like playing "find the pixel"

Well in my example, I was able to be killed, in fact a few shots came close, as well as the barn being bombed and some M2's got shots in. So I wasn't invincible, besides whats the function of a sniper.

Now main base camping, that I loathe.

GoldenFalcon · Post by **GoldenFalcon** » 2004-08-05 10:33am

Hmm, annoyances like these? It's nothing, compared to ADMINS abusing a Superhero Mod bug in Counterstrike. They had unlimited time using Nightcrawler and Colossus. Nightcrawler gives you noclip, while Colossus gives you invincibility. They even stacked their own team too with bugged players, making getting experience to get superheroes virtually impossible.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-08-05 11:13am

I find it more amusing that the USCM corps couldn't build a sensor that could see through the cloak myself.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-08-05 12:21pm

EMP realism nitpick:

An EMP powerful enough to stun other human-sized beings would be enough to stun a human being. After all, brains aren't immune to EMP.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-08-05 12:34pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:EMP realism nitpick:

An EMP powerful enough to stun other human-sized beings would be enough to stun a human being. After all, brains aren't immune to EMP.

I'm no expert, but I think they should.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-08-05 02:16pm

NecronLord wrote:I find it more amusing that the USCM corps couldn't build a sensor that could see through the cloak myself.

Didn't they? I thought the sentry guns would still hit you even if you were cloaked.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-05 02:32pm

Well in my example, I was able to be killed, in fact a few shots came close, as well as the barn being bombed and some M2's got shots in. So I wasn't invincible, besides whats the function of a sniper.

Now main base camping, that I loathe.

I know what you mean. Sniper does have a function, but only if you can realistically be able to find him in a game right? In real life, you play to win, but games are supposed to be fun. Is it fun to run around looking for people whom you will have no chance of finding, since they are not hinding in a location, but completely out of your vision spectrum? Haha. I was in a game one time for 30 min, and no one moved but the humans. That was boring as shit, and more and more servers are getting like that because of human weapons killing to fast when you move. They are the only weapons they use (mines, sniper). But it gets even worse in games where the people can't be seen no matter what you do.

Cloak is cool, but things need a nerfing, but only if human weapons that kill instantly are as well. That's the major reason why preds just stand still and no one gets any kills on the human side.

EMP realism nitpick:

An EMP powerful enough to stun other human-sized beings would be enough to stun a human being. After all, brains aren't immune to EMP.

I agree, but the game, for some reason, only stuns preds and aliens, but humans can wack each other all day long and nothing substantial happens. You knock out their lightbulb in their flashlight (Oh, thats pretty severe ain't it?) Meanwhile, preds and aliens can't move and are 90% defenseless. They spam the map with EMP rounds and spider mines, and then you die. WHen you switch over to something that also spams, like pistol, they call you a skilless noob or something. Their spam eyes only see in one direction.

Didn't they? I thought the sentry guns would still hit you even if you were cloaked.

IN primal hunt, the humans do have access to some sentry gun technology, but the guns have two downsides.

A. against normal/heavy preds, I have noticed the weapons are pathetically weak and usualy die.

B. THe humans set them up near spawn points or long narrow halls in giant groups so no one can move on the map.

Again, they don't use them fairly when you give it to them, but they do abuse it. Spawn/die spawn/die spawn/die. In other cases, they will put rows of the things up and just hide behind them all day causing even more pred camping, but if you camp to avoid it, you get booted.

I think it's a lose-lose situation. THey need to fix the problem of weapon balance for the issue to go away.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-08-05 02:42pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:

Didn't they? I thought the sentry guns would still hit you even if you were cloaked.
IN primal hunt, the humans do have access to some sentry gun technology, but the guns have two downsides.

Actually I meant in the single player for Alien vs. Predator.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2004-08-05 03:07pm

Actually I meant in the single player for Alien vs. Predator.

I think they do, yea. I might have seen one in the pseudo-cutscenes.