Xbox Linux + Doom3?

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-10-18 06:48pm

Isn't it possible in theory to run Doom 3 on Xbox under Linux (ignoring performance, that is)? Not that there would be any point to doing so...

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2004-10-18 07:49pm

I would imagine so. But you know what would be better, ?
Xbox+Linux+Wine+Doom Origional

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 11:43am

Yes. Xbox->Linux->doom3
but thats theory since the xboxy only has 64mb of sdram and 733Mhz hybrid celey\p3.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 11:50am

Tech^salvager wrote:Yes. Xbox->Linux->doom3
but thats theory since the xboxy only has 64mb of sdram and 733Mhz hybrid celey\p3.

True, except a Xbox's internal programming makes ultra-efficient use of those resources, giving us games that can equal a PC's level in graphics.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 01:27pm

Take into account of the RAM and Doom3 on linux will play like shit. If it even starts never the less.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 01:27pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote:Yes. Xbox->Linux->doom3
but thats theory since the xboxy only has 64mb of sdram and 733Mhz hybrid celey\p3.
True, except a Xbox's internal programming makes ultra-efficient use of those resources, giving us games that can equal a PC's level in graphics.

Thats untrue

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 01:32pm

Tech^salvager wrote: Thats untrue

Prove it, prove it by giving another reason why the Xbox on a TV res can look equilivent to most PC games, I point you to D3, where the differances are tiny except in texture-res, I point you to Need for Speed, Fable, all games who have massive hardware needs, yet work flawlessly on the Xbox.

The reason is simple actully, programming for only one hardware configuration means optimization is alot easier, and the fact the drivers are basicly 1 version only, allowing great compiliation of the code.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 01:39pm

I will as soon as i get home got to go home now.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 01:41pm

Tech^salvager wrote:I will as soon as i get home got to go home now.

No problem, I eargerly await your reply...

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 02:49pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote: Thats untrue
Prove it, prove it by giving another reason why the Xbox on a TV res can look equilivent to most PC games, I point you to D3, where the differances are tiny except in texture-res, I point you to Need for Speed, Fable, all games who have massive hardware needs, yet work flawlessly on the Xbox.

The reason is simple actully, programming for only one hardware configuration means optimization is alot easier, and the fact the drivers are basicly 1 version only, allowing great compiliation of the code.

Cause tv bleeds together colors. Which in turn makes it look nicer. Computer Monitors don't. Doom3 on xbox compare to doom3 on pc looks like crap. They had to take alot of enemies out og certain places and tone the graphics down to get it to run at respectable frame rate.
Yes you are right about coding for it since you basicall the same chipsets in them. Also I've seen slow downs in Need for speed Underround. But unlike a microcomputer with a fullblown OS. the xbox has little overhead.

Whats this internal programming you posted? Xbox equal PC level graphics is wrong.
So really I am on both sides lol

In the I don't care really since I have a xbox and love to play on it.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:00pm

Tech^salvager wrote: Cause tv bleeds together colors. Which in turn makes it look nicer. Computer Monitors don't. Doom3 on xbox compare to doom3 on pc looks like crap. They had to take alot of enemies out og certain places and tone the graphics down to get it to run at respectable frame rate.
Yes you are right about coding for it since you basicall the same chipsets in them. Also I've seen slow downs in Need for speed Underround. But unlike a microcomputer with a fullblown OS. the xbox has little overhead.

Whats this internal programming you posted? Xbox equall PC level graphics is wrong.

While TV does bleed certine colors together, thats from the low rez, not from any problem with the monitor.

Again, on a direct gameplay, can you notice the differance? the differant textures are wall textures and that kind of stuff, not very easily noticeable
Yes, they had to take enemies out, did that change the gameplay experiance? no, so thats not really a drawback.
On the NfS Underground, there are slowdowns, what computer dosn't have slowdowns, the difference is the slowdowns are barely noticeable, and the gameplay and graphics are not easily differantiated.

On the coding, besides the fact its the same Chipset(and CPU, and GPU, and RAM, and HD), is the fact that unlike a PC where you need to program for a wide array of choices, a Xbox dosn't need to have options like rez change and all.

Internal programming, simple, no programmer code is perfectly optimized for every computer, and the Xbox drivers compile the code into near perfect optimization, unlike a PC.

PC graphics are better, but on the low res deal (which we are comparing, unless you want to compare 1600X1200 VS 600X400 res), there are no real differances, sure you can look with a photoshop image enlarger and all, but really, would you notice that during games.

P.S I'm not a console gamer, and a PC fanboy myself, but the Xbox isn't that bad in terms of hardware.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:05pm

Internal programming, simple, no programmer code is perfectly optimized for every computer, and the Xbox drivers compile the code into near perfect optimization, unlike a PC.

Can you find me a link? Cause drivers don't compile code.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:08pm

Tech^salvager wrote: Can you find me a link? Cause drivers don't compile code.

Drivers are basicly run-time compilers of program code, into more efficient code.

What did you think graphical drivers where? Bug fixs?

EDIT: heres one
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/device+driver

Definition:

Software to control a hardware component or peripheral device of a computer such as a magnetic disk, magnetic tape or printer.

A device driver is responsible for accessing the hardware registers of the device and often includes an interrupt handler to service interrupts generated by the device.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:10pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote: Can you find me a link? Cause drivers don't compile code.
Drivers are basicly run-time compilers of program code, into more efficient code.

What did you think graphical drivers where? Bug fixs?

I'll try to find an exact definition.

I know what drivers are and do.
But they do not work in the sence that you are stateing.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:10pm

Do you code?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-10-19 03:21pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote:Yes. Xbox->Linux->doom3
but thats theory since the xboxy only has 64mb of sdram and 733Mhz hybrid celey\p3.
True, except a Xbox's internal programming makes ultra-efficient use of those resources, giving us games that can equal a PC's level in graphics.

Wrong. What "internal programming" are you talking about? The optimization for the Xbox is done in the game code itself, a huge chunk of which relies on Microsoft's DirectX drivers for Xbox. Linux on the Xbox does not have this advantage.

The Xbox has some optimized hardware, like more rendering pipelines in its GeForce 3, but Doom 3 for Linux is not written for the Xbox, hence it will not take advantage of the optimizations available for programmers. I'll put money on Linux Doom 3 running on Xbox Linux like total shit. He's already got a version of the engine optimized for each specific GPU pipeline (GeForce 3 included), but that won't helpa GeForce 3 run Doom 3 like a 6800.

Aside from that, if you think that Carmack is going to be able to eek GeForce 6800 performance out of the Doom 3 Xbox port while maintaining the same graphical quality of the PC version, think again. No level of optimization can make up for that large a hardware disparity. He's going to have to do some considerable trimming to get it running well.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:23pm

Tech^salvager wrote: I know what drivers are and do.
But they do not work in the sence that you are stateing.

a driver is a small program. the coding in the program takes the place of extra hardware for a fraction of the cost. a peripheral device, such as a CD-ROM or modem, once would have had an extra chunk of hardware attached to allow it to run on the computer - hence the term 'hardware modem', items which no longer exist except as oddities in computer fairs.

The driver replaces the hardware, taking up a fraction of memory instead of a large amount of physical space. drivers were invented to allow ease of compatability, as the hardware versions did not always work on all systems.

Thats a bigger definition and a more complex one.

Let me get the point back on topic, which you claimed an Xbox could not equal on a compareable level, PC level graphics.
I replied, in summery, that in the resolution we're talking about, yes, the Xbox can, and its more efficient.

Tech^salvager wrote:Do you code?

I have started recently, why?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:24pm

Durandal wrote:
Wrong. What "internal programming" are you talking about? The optimization for the Xbox is done in the game code itself, a huge chunk of which relies on Microsoft's DirectX drivers for Xbox. Linux on the Xbox does not have this advantage.

The Xbox has some optimized hardware, like more rendering pipelines in its GeForce 3, but Doom 3 for Linux is not written for the Xbox, hence it will not take advantage of the optimizations available for programmers. I'll put money on Linux Doom 3 running on Xbox Linux like total shit. He's already got a version of the engine optimized for each specific GPU pipeline (GeForce 3 included), but that won't helpa GeForce 3 run Doom 3 like a 6800.

Aside from that, if you think that Carmack is going to be able to eek GeForce 6800 performance out of the Doom 3 Xbox port while maintaining the same graphical quality of the PC version, think again. No level of optimization can make up for that large a hardware disparity. He's going to have to do some considerable trimming to get it running well.

Sorry, I miswrote, what I meant were that the hardware was further optimized, what you said.

Also, I mistakenly used the Xbox version of D3, my total mistake, conceeded to you.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:25pm

ok one thing is a driver is not a program!

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:27pm

Tech^salvager wrote:ok one thing is a driver is not a program!

Okey, a series of .dll's or I forgot which files, but basicly it also executes for the hardware to function.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:32pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Tech^salvager wrote:ok one thing is a driver is not a program!
Okey, a series of .dll's or I forgot which files, but basicly it also executes for the hardware to function.

No it dosen't
It shows tells the OS how to operate the HW

hey I know come to IRC.skyos.net #skyos and will talk

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:33pm

What language?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:34pm

Tech^salvager wrote: No it dosen't
It shows tells the OS how to operate the HW

hey I know come to IRC.skyos.net #skyos and will talk

Exactly, however, that is contained in file that do run(or execute), and also helps optimize the command (or order of commands) to give the best preformance).

Why go to IRC? okey, i'll try with Trillain.

Tech^salvager · Post by **Tech^salvager** » 2004-10-19 03:35pm

a driver is a small program. the coding in the program takes the place of extra hardware for a fraction of the cost. a peripheral device, such as a CD-ROM or modem, once would have had an extra chunk of hardware attached to allow it to run on the computer - hence the term 'hardware modem', items which no longer exist except as oddities in computer fairs.

Actually HW modems are still being made today. Anyways thats incorrect.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2004-10-19 03:38pm

Tech^salvager wrote: Actually HW modems are still being made today. Anyways thats incorrect.

Does anyone use them today? with intergrated network chips that provide perfect functionality?

Outside of networks that is.