Can Someone Explain the Ending of MGS2? (SPOILERS)

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2004-11-15 09:57pm

With MGS3 coming out, I realized that I still don't know what the fuck happened at the end of the second game. The first time I saw it was when one of my college roommates was pulling an all-nighter trying to beat the game, and a bunch of guys were sitting around watching. Most of us fell asleep at one point or another, missing some parts. I thought that was why I couldn't understand the ending.

Later, I played through the game myself to see the whole story. I watched every cutscene over, and painstakingly read through even the most boring or pointless Codec messages. However, I was still lost at the end.

I understand everything up until Raiden and Snake are captured and taken to the top of Arsenal Gear. Then, things got confusing. First, Ocelot reveals that he's been playing Solidus all along, that he's working for the Patriots, and that the whole thing was an elaborate training kernal designed to make Raiden the next Snake (sounds like a lot to sacrifice for one super soldier, I can't believe he actually believed this

). According to him, all the events in MGS1 were part of this ruse. Then, after Arsenal Gear crashes into New York, there's this long ass pretentious dialogue where the AI Colonel and Rose (the actual Patriots?) talk about information, some conciousness growing in the White House, and how Raiden's supposed to prove some kind of point or something. It's worse than the Architect's speech at the end of Matrix Reloaded.

Did any of you guys actually understand this crap?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-11-15 10:33pm

The entire Big Shell incident was a test run for the S3 protocol - which is the generalized model by which GW would be able to selectively manipulate information to manipulate large and highly chaotic systems. The Big Shell incident was modeled after Shadow Moses because Shadow Moses had extreme and rare circumstances. The belief was that if the S3 could successfully manipulate that scenario, than it would be prepared for any contingency. The Big Shell incident itself was the exercise that Emma heard about - an exercise executed in order to provide GW with raw data to complete it for use in controlling human civilization.

The Tanker incident was simply a tool to discredit Philanthropy and remove opposition to ARSENAL GEAR in the form of Metal Gear RAY, such that the GW could be successfully developed as part of the ARSENAL GEAR project. Additionally, the Tanker incident allowed the Patriots to set up various groups and individuals for later utilization in the final trials for GW itself.

The Shadow Moses incident was a result of George Sears - Solidus Snake - attempting to knock out two birds with one stone. Using the SecDef, Jim Houseman as a proxy, he initiated development of Metal Gear REX. He planned to liquidate obvious threats to himself - his genetic brothers Liquid and Solid Snake, as well as the flawed and politically vulnerable Genome Army and the increasingly dysfunctional FOX-HOUND itself - using FOXDIE, while achieving the successful test of the new nuclear warhead and delivery system, which would give him a major trump card in manipulating the global geopolitical balance independently of the Patriots. It appears that although Ocelot was to retrieve the data for Solidus, he was in fact a Patriot agent and instead disseminated the data on the black market. Possibly this was an attempt by the now-discredited Solidus to disrupt geopolitics beyond the Patriots control and to create opposition to them elsewhere (RAY's creation is a direct result of the black market dissemination of the REX data) or possibly a directive of the Patriots with the express purpose of contriving opposition to them which they could later manipulate to their purposes.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-15 11:53pm

Penny Arcade explains it all!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-11-16 02:32am

No, I can't. It was stupid. MGS has to drop the pretention; its 'tactical espionage action' not lame anti-war propaganda. It should be modern Tenchu, dammit, not a self-indulgent anime.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-11-16 02:59am

I recall that I understood everything that was going on and what they were talking about, but I don't remember at this current time.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-11-16 04:55am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I recall that I understood everything that was going on and what they were talking about, but I don't remember at this current time.

Sounds like my friday night

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-16 08:16am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I recall that I understood everything that was going on and what they were talking about, but I don't remember at this current time.

That explains it perfectly. It made sense to me at the time, but I quickly forgot. The plot of MGS2 was fucking stupid, no question, and I'm kicking myself for not knowing about PA at the time. Hilarious comic.

Possibly this was an attempt by the now-discredited Solidus to disrupt geopolitics beyond the Patriots control and to create opposition to them elsewhere (RAY's creation is a direct result of the black market dissemination of the REX data) or possibly a directive of the Patriots with the express purpose of contriving opposition to them which they could later manipulate to their purposes.

Well, he wanted the list of names- obviously (to me, anyway, and as obvious as MGS2 can get in all its byzantine stupid twists upon twists) he was going to go kill them. If they weren't already dead. Or ... ack.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-11-16 08:24am

Vympel wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I recall that I understood everything that was going on and what they were talking about, but I don't remember at this current time.
That explains it perfectly. It made sense to me at the time, but I quickly forgot.

Not at all. Just that right now, I can't describe it in minute detail. I know how all the pieces fall together, and actually liked it.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-11-16 05:23pm

This is a game with a bisexual vampire that refuses to die even when shot many many times, a fat bloke on rollerskates with a penchant for bombs, and a woman who appears to be able to deflect not only bullets, but also missiles, and, the absolute killer, a man who is controlled by the personality stored in his hand.

You expect it to start making sense in time for the ending.

Anyway, IP summed most of it up quite succinctly, but it also helps to regard The Patriots as a Meme. Which, in fact, they are. The kind of global superconspiracy they represent is a raw viral idea, it perpetuates and reappears over and over. the 'names' of the Patriots retrieved at the end is a list of people a hundred years dead, it may even be that there are no 'real' Patriots, just the perpetuated idea of them causing people to act as if they existed. The core of the game, especially the Arsenal Gear section, is all about manipulation through projected reality after all. (I'm not even sure how much of what happens inside Arsenal Gear is real, you get, after all, the VR effect at your feel like in the VR missions)

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-11-16 05:28pm

*Sigh*

I felt it was quite straightforward, but I guess if a game isn't just blowing shit up and being pro-war, no one wants to think. Kojima-san may have laid it on heavy at the end, the salient points are the most important and easily explained. MGS3 (we hope) will tie up loose ends.

Here is the best site to explain it.

Incidentally, the games aren't "anti-war" (no idea how that came into it), they instead revolve around themes. The first MGS game was about genetics and the passing of genetic information. MGS2 was about memes and the passing on of culture and ideals and information without real genetic form (hence the Patriots and Arsenal Gear/GW). The third game is going to be about scenes, or rather time and the way it changes how the first two interact and affect individuals.

Assuming this doesn't all end with MGS3, the last in the trilogy, then there may be a new set of games with a different title that takes over with a new objective.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-11-17 01:02am

Konami is already planning MGS4.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-11-17 01:25am

With all due respect, MGS is wildly anti war. Its arguable if this is intrinsic or extrinsic, but given what I've read about ole Hideo leads me to believe he loves all the anti-nuclear rubbish in MGS.

MGS was taglined 'Tactical Espionage Action'. Thats what I wanted. I didn't want literally half an hour of whining. Preaching is bad, mmkay? It IS slightly more redeemable if its all an elaborate theme, however its TERRIBLE if you build in complexity noone notices or cares about.

One of my only interests in the franchise is whether it made more sense in Japanese.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-11-17 04:57pm

Vympel wrote:Konami is already planning MGS4.

Despite the tag at the end of the TGS video? Do you have a link or anything?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-11-18 08:20pm

Metal Gear Solid 2 went beyond any semblance of stupidity, when Solid Snake didn't even attempt to warn the US Marines on that ship that...

HEY, THESE GUYS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE TOP LEVELS OF THE SHIP, AND ARE ABOUT TO KILL YOU ALL.

It would have been better if the Marines caught you sneaking around
RAY and you told them what happened, and it became a massive firefight..

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2004-11-19 08:40am

MKSheppard wrote:Metal Gear Solid 2 went beyond any semblance of stupidity, when Solid Snake didn't even attempt to warn the US Marines on that ship that...

HEY, THESE GUYS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE TOP LEVELS OF THE SHIP, AND ARE ABOUT TO KILL YOU ALL.

It would have been better if the Marines caught you sneaking around
RAY and you told them what happened, and it became a massive firefight..

And then a pretty crappy game as it ends right there. I'm pretty sure the marines wouldn't take too kindly to Snake warning them since he isn't even meant to be there. Then the Russkies just kick arse again.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-11-19 10:14am

I'm assuming that any planned Metal Gear Solid 4 is probably actually the first entry in a new Metal Gear series.